Diablo® III

CoB End-game Progression Guide

I'm using bears right now until I get better gear to use CoB. Can farm mp6-7 reasonably effectively.

Any tips on what I can upgrade next?
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I'm using bears right now until I get better gear to use CoB. Can farm mp6-7 reasonably effectively.Any tips on what I can upgrade next?


The mana requirement and skill-cycle for bears is in conflict with the non-mana requirement for CoB. Each gear-skill path have their unique synergy and gearing requirements. If you want to go the CoB path, then gear the CoB way.

IMO, I think your gear is too weak to stack IAS for the time being. Stick with 2 pieces of IAS or less. You are also not ready to explore the SoJ + IAS advanced gearing for Skorn (unless you have budget in the Billions range). Starting off, go with high CHC/CHD/Intel.

The gearing part of my guide explains the details (Topic 3).
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07/02/2013 11:32 AMPosted by PaulNg
At the time of testing, my unbuffed DPS for the 7 Skorns ranged from 167k to 211k. The difference in the kill times was only 25 secs. This means, for the common elite packs in the game, the difference in efficiency may only be 10secs – 15secs, due to the high multipliers and leverage we get from CoB.


Nice guide. But I think 10-15 sec difference is huge. I assume that to be efficient on a given mp difficulty you have to be able to kill elite in 10-15 sec, or at least before your BBV is gone. I'm not sure if your numbers are correct, but diff between 167k and 211k is around 20%. You're telling that 10-15 sec is a 20% of your elite kill time, that means each elite kill should take about a 1-1.5 minute. I don't understand the term "End-game progression", I guess in this case it means surviving mp10 with 167k dps, but 20% difference in unbuffed dps is massive.My argument is that "all the Intel + LS + Skorn listed on the AH are end-game quality" claim is not quite correct, until you explain what is "end-game". 167k is good for mp6-mp7 in terms of efficiency, 211k is nice for mp8-mp9, 250k is just right for mp10 (211k will do it, although it's not really reasonable in publics or outside a good party). You can do mp10 with 50k dps though, not sure anybody would call it "end-game progression",
Edited by KyKaH#2425 on 7/4/2013 6:44 AM PDT
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07/04/2013 06:27 AMPosted by KyKaH
Nice guide. But I think 10-15 sec difference is huge.


Thanks.

It really depends, if you want to time everything, then efficiency matters a lot to you. I take that length of time to type one sentence when chatting, and we chat even while doing our runs. So, 10-15 secs is really nothing to the people I group with. We can even spend 15 minutes in town just chatting and/or crafting.

07/04/2013 06:27 AMPosted by KyKaH
You're telling that 10-15 sec is a 20% of your elite kill time


Not tested, just guessing. What I've tested was:
Skorns with DPS from 1074 to 1397, Belial final phase kill times differ by 25 secs only, really insignificant to me, although 25 secs out of 57 secs is >50% and efficiency may be very important to you.

The proof of that test was "It can be done", not that "It can be done efficiently". I did give recommended stats in Topic (3) to be efficient at MP10. To get that level of DPS, probably we need to look at 1350 DPS Skorn or better. It also depends on all the player's gear pieces and not just the weapon alone.

07/04/2013 06:27 AMPosted by KyKaH
I don't understand the term "End-game progression",


This will tie up nicely with your previous statement that I quoted. Basically, a new WD cannot afford all the high-tier gear, they need to start from somewhere. So the basic items will gradually upgrade, until their WD can finally clear the game at MP10. If a player uses RMAH or buys gold, then yes, he reaches "end-game" without going through the long journey. The journey may take more than a year for a casual player.

Hope you enjoyed the read.
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I never really fully understood the whole lets time all my runs and they need to be done in 5 min etc. Granted I don't want to take a 2 hours to do a run. But just as u said Paul ill stop in a run and chat or bs or whatever. I don't like feeling rushed just for the sake of saying we did the run in 5 min.
Edited by EvoIution#1710 on 7/4/2013 6:56 AM PDT
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Well I'm not talking about rushing or chatting. I'm talking about the reasoning behind farming mp10 and killing mobs there. The difference in rewards between mp8 and mp10 for example is much less than difference in difficulty. You see people complain about mana and attack speed, how it's difficult to farm mp10, that GI and GF (those are in my opinion are "end-game" passives) are not working well on those levels. I can understand the reasoning and a feel of achievement, but farming mp10 with say 160k dps slows player progression because he struggle at getting more xp and more loot and bonds him to ineffective builds with kludges. I did farm mp5, mp6, mp7 for months and months before I went on higher mp's, bu if I would farm mp10 from the beginning I would be nowhere really by now. This is my main point, I don't want to tell you how to play - it's your own fun, but it should be noted that if you want progress fast you better choose difficulty wisely.
Edited by KyKaH#2425 on 7/4/2013 7:24 AM PDT
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07/04/2013 07:04 AMPosted by KyKaH
Well I'm not talking about rushing or chatting. I'm talking about the reasoning behind farming mp10 and killing mobs there. The difference in rewards between mp8 and mp10 for example is much less than difference in difficulty. You see people complain about mana and attack speed, how it's difficult to farm mp10, that GI and GF (those are in my opinion are "end-game" passives) are not working well on those levels. I can understand the reasoning and a feel of achievement, but farming mp10 with say 160k dps slows player progression because he struggle at getting more xp and more loot. This is my main point, I don't want to tell you how to play - it's your own fun, but it should be noted that if you want progress fast you better choose difficulty wisely.


I have no problem farming mp10 that's all I run. And it only does take 10-15 sec to kill elites for me. But I'm talking strickly about rushing around just for the sake of rushing. I enjoy talking in the chats or with the people in my party and goin back to town to sell. Even if that means my runs take 5 to ten min longer.
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Both have valid points. In the end, it's the preference of the player, and the friends that they group with.
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07/04/2013 06:27 AMPosted by KyKaH
My argument is that "all the Intel + LS + Skorn listed on the AH are end-game quality" claim is not quite correct, until you explain what is "end-game".


Noted, and edited.
To avoid confusion, "End-Game" refers to doing all the quests from Act 1 through Act 4 and completing the game. Some players may want to add Ubers solo at MP10, since that is the most recent content in the game.

Special thanks to KyKah for his feedback.


Thanks for the feedback.
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Thanks Paul for a really good guide!!!!

Can you check my gear out and give me advise to optimise for MP10 efficient COB farming?

I still die a lot in Act 2 when i try MP10 :( maybe my play skills just suck lol
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07/04/2013 06:55 PMPosted by Bankai
Can you check my gear out and give me advise to optimise for MP10 efficient COB farming?


Your profile still shows up as Bears path. Basically, the gear and skill build needs to have synergy. The gear-build relationship is different for every style. Just follow the concepts in Topics (1) to (3), and the whole game content shouldn't be any problem for your current gears.

I guess you're not really familiar with the techniques and casting sequences for CoB, that will be Topic (2).

I'm sure you already know where you can upgrade (eg. more CHC and Intel).
Good luck!
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Added to Topic (1)

Planned Uber Run with Teamwork
Video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPChi1yAkgI&feature=youtu.be
108% DPS party buff as described.
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This is a really impressive and in-depth guide. Thanks for taking the time to write it :)
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wow very detailed guide. as expected of one of the most knowledgeable active WD in the forum!
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Thanks everyone, for taking the time to read this guide.

Topic (4) - 1H vs 2H is added.
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07/02/2013 11:34 AMPosted by PaulNg
The maximum additional mana regeneration for 1H path is 28 mana/sec.


It is not 28 mana/sec...it is 48 including the zuni set.

Also, I do feel a little of bias for the 2h. The mana regeneration itself opens a lot of possibilities and builds around CoB as well. You only stated the Life Steal Benefits for both and the CHD of Skorn vs CC Mojos bring... but mojos have other stats and are more superior in flexibility than 2h.

So just to add a bit of benefits for the 1h + Mojo:
+% Damage to Elites
+ Pickup Radius
+ Class Based Skill (other skills to compliment CoB)

Cheers! :D
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07/05/2013 11:24 AMPosted by Mugel
It is not 28 mana/sec...it is 48 including the zuni set.


Face palm. We are from different worlds.

07/05/2013 11:24 AMPosted by Mugel
Also, I do feel a little of bias for the 2h. The mana regeneration itself opens a lot of possibilities and builds around CoB as well.


This is the CoB guide, using Skorn as the weapon of choice. This whole thread is about CoB, what other possibilities do you want to talk about with CoB as the main skill? Can you list some? List any?

Please read from page 1.

So just to add a bit of benefits for the 1h + Mojo:+% Damage to Elites+ Pickup Radius


Sigh, you really want to look through a microscope and list out all the possible rolls of the different mojos? Why didn't you mention about all the interesting stats that a 1H weapon can hold but the Intel+LS Skorn wouldn't have the spare slot to roll? That will add far more dimensions to the 1H possibilities right? Hey! +% Damage to Elites on my 1H weapon. % Freeze stat, that sure helps to hold the mobs in my CoB.

For your info, some of the friends I've had discussions with, they are on the 1H path. The pros and cons, and limitations for each path are clear. The step by step progressions in the guidelines are sound and logical. If you fully understood the concepts within the guide, you can't go wrong, eventually you'll clear MP10 when your budget allows you to gear correctly. There are also new WDs who overtook me in both DPS and mitigation, and cleared MP10 within 2 weeks of being new to the WD class.

I know 1H vs 2H is a touchy topic. I even wrote that statement at the beginning of Topic (4), if you bothered to read at all. I didn't say you must go the 2H path, I said that new WDs coming into Inferno MP0 will survive better going the Skorn path. It's a simple matter of fact.

Open your mind to sound logic. Follow the guidance of one player, whose gear concept and style of play is the type that you enjoy playing, that will be your progression path.
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07/05/2013 11:49 AMPosted by PaulNg
It is not 28 mana/sec...it is 48 including the zuni set.


Face palm. We are from different worlds.

Also, I do feel a little of bias for the 2h. The mana regeneration itself opens a lot of possibilities and builds around CoB as well.


This is the CoB guide, using Skorn as the weapon of choice. This whole thread is about CoB, what other possibilities do you want to talk about with CoB as the main skill? Can you list some? List any?

Please read from page 1.

So just to add a bit of benefits for the 1h + Mojo:+% Damage to Elites+ Pickup Radius


Sigh, you really want to look through a microscope and list out all the possible rolls of the different mojos? Why didn't you mention about all the interesting stats that a 1H weapon can hold but the Intel+LS Skorn wouldn't have the spare slot to roll? That will add far more dimensions to the 1H possibilities right? Hey! +% Damage to Elites on my 1H weapon. % Freeze stat, that sure helps to hold the mobs in my CoB.

For your info, some of the friends I've had discussions with, they are on the 1H path. The pros and cons, and limitations for each path are clear. The step by step progressions in the guidelines are sound and logical. If you fully understood the concepts within the guide, you can't go wrong, eventually you'll clear MP10 when your budget allows you to gear correctly. There are also new WDs who overtook me in both DPS and mitigation, and cleared MP10 within 2 weeks of being new to the WD class.

I know 1H vs 2H is a touchy topic. I even wrote that statement at the beginning of Topic (4), if you bothered to read at all. I didn't say you must go the 2H path, I said that new WDs coming into Inferno MP0 will survive better going the Skorn path. It's a simple matter of fact.

Open your mind to sound logic. Follow the guidance of one player, whose gear concept and style of play is the type that you enjoy playing, that will be your progression path.


The 1h Path = Maximum Mana Regeneration from Mojo = 14, Helm = 14, zuni set = 20...Add all that up and you get 48. How come you state that the max is only 28?? No seriously..I am curious to this one as you are dumbfounded by my comment. Is there something I am missing here??

Also, I apologize as I didn't read your whole guide as I was only interested how you viewed 2h vs 1h + mojo.

So chill man... no need to crit me with a wall of text :D
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First off, great info here Paul. Nicely done.

Mugel, he wasn't saying the max was 28 regen/sec, but that 28 is the ADDITIONAL mana regen that can be gained, since 2h users will also have the 20 regen/sec from zuni set.

With this said, isn't the additional mana regen possible 42/sec? 14 from weapon, mojo, and helm?
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First off, great info here Paul. Nicely done.

Mugel, he wasn't saying the max was 28 regen/sec, but that 28 is the ADDITIONAL mana regen that can be gained, since 2h users will also have the 20 regen/sec from zuni set.

With this said, isn't the additional mana regen possible 42/sec? 14 from weapon, mojo, and helm?


Alright got it. But, Maximum Additional Mana Regen is still not 28... From his example, the carving knife, you can still get more than 28.

Reinforcing what Bonefish said: Mana Regen from Weapon, Mojo and Helm....
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