Diablo® III

To all 1H WD currently using CoB

You should take a closer look at Plague Bats.
Esp. for those who are using the popular TofD...

In most cases, it's better for you as a 1H WD...

Welcome to prove me wrong....
I like to see counter arguments.
Edited by Luffy#1946 on 6/28/2013 12:58 PM PDT
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IMO, it is really play style dependent.

I played both, prefer CoB over plague with my playing style.

I started wd after my cm wiz reach 100, CoB is reminiscently similar to CM style.

As for real difference, 1h/mojo running plague bats will have shorter time to reach the max stack of plague bat DOTs (5 stacks max) relative to skorn users. But the life leech from plague is much slower than CoB, which is instant LS. A huge pack of snakes (deceivers?) hit at once can actually kill plague bats wd. The good side of plague bats is easier to fight against blazing guardian and other ranged elites.

But again, i take bears and CoB.
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I like both, but Plague bats gets a slight edge for me because of the range. Can stand behind my dogs and spray enemies (like archers). It feels more natural to "shoot" at someone than to run right next to them and use COB (awkward when a few archers are spread apart. waste of mana imo too). Just play style preference.
Edited by Chas#1850 on 6/28/2013 1:26 PM PDT
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ive tried plague bats and its just not my style. its deff not bad and a good skill but to each his own. i clear faster and deal more damage with cob and the ramp up with cob means nothing to me for white mobs since there almost instanstly killed. and by the time cob does hit its 5 sec ramp vs elites there dead a few seconds after ward so it works out just perfect for me imo. also i noticed that the life steal does seem to be better from cob then pb, but maybe thats all in my head.

luffy u should add me or ill add u when i get off work tonight,. we can do some runs. ill use cob u use plague we should check and see how we do we can use it as a test of sorts. :) btw ive ran with people that use plague bats and actually the combo is awesome. 1 wd using cob 1 using pb the dot of pb helps kill the kiting elites or ememys just out of the cob range. it was actually a great combo.
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I feel like plague bats isn't strong enough to tank the heavy stuff, especially with a 1 hand. Some of the crazy ehp docs might be able to do it, but I still think they're better off with CoB. Really, the only time I wish I was using plague over cloud is when I run into blazing guardians. Plague also irritates me when mobs surround me and I can't hit them all at once (happens all the time when using MC). You have to break the channel and reposition to get all the elites back into the cone, and then they just surround you again a few seconds later. It destroys people in PvP though. Like we needed more help there.

Gotcha should comment here. He is all about plague bats and he has great gear. We're in agreement that plague bats and bears is a good combo. Loading elites up with bats and then burning them down with bears while the dot is going does a lot of damage. It's very mana intensive though. ZC SoJ is highly recommended with that build.

tl;dr plague is much safer because you don't have to tank as much, but it requires more kiting and has slower kill times against the vast majority of elites compared to CoB. Not my style.
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You should take a closer look at Plague Bats.
Esp. for those who are using the popular TofD...

In most cases, it's better for you as a 1H WD...

Welcome to prove me wrong....
I like to see counter arguments.


you're asking people to prove you wrong, while you provide no proof yourself.
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I tried plague bats and it is effective. I agree with other posters though, play style is a factor in my decision making... and CoB fits my style more. I get surrounded by mobs and then just turn up the blender...

I love playing with a plague bats WD though. Got to do some runs the other day with a plague bats doc that was also using locust swarm, with mana rune. We would stand shoulder to shoulder and mow thru the map. It was nice we also had an archon wiz in the group. The blue and green (I run locust swarm pestilence) covered mobs were so pretty before they exploded.
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I feel it is game play style too. What ya get used to kind of thing.

I will say though an amazingly effcient Ubers build right here...

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#bcUYTQ!Uec!Zbabcb

Handled mp10 in group WILDY DRUNK and only died once, I think.... :D

EDIT: Thanks to PaulNg and Neuron for the help on those
Edited by RHVfan#1399 on 6/28/2013 1:43 PM PDT
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I like them both. But I can do MP10 much easier with CoB than with PB.. So IMO, that makes CoB better than PB.

EDIT: Act1 MP10 just incase people want to bash on me lol.. I haven't tried any other acts in MP10.
Edited by SunTzu#1166 on 6/28/2013 1:44 PM PDT
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Both are good actually but CoB's insane dmg is hard to pass up. Most of the mobs / elites usually tends to crowd around the player makes CoB ideal for facetanking them. Just my opinion.
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Welcome to prove me wrong....
I like to see counter arguments.

I can't prove it, but we can start at 1000% Weapon Damage vs 578% weapon damage.

What's your simple argument to say Plague Bats is better?
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I can't prove it, but we can start at 1000% Weapon Damage vs 578% weapon damage.

What's your simple argument to say Plague Bats is better?


Yeah, I was also looking for more of an argument in the OP than 'I liek mudkipz'.

Presumably luffy's claiming faster clear times, but I have a hard time seeing how that's the case. Rounding up huge groups with Pestilence, dropping all your buffs and unloading under perma-Spirit Walk seems to be the time-efficient solution right now, and this has the positive side benefit of rendering defensive gear more or less moot.
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Chas pointed out something I have in mind.
PB give me a way to select the targets I wanna attack and give me range.

for those who have other range attack skills together with CoB, PB is good to replace both of them and free up a slot for other buff skills.
TotD users can really benefit from the longer PUR they have.
With less lifesteal compare to skorn users, I can stay out of crap (like plague, molten...).

Another concern is reflect elites. With PB, I can turn around, avoid the RD for some short moment...to get life refill from others and turn back to attack the RD. That again can probably free up the need of horrify armor buff in general farming.

With a little range, you probably can free up some slots for dmg buffs from vessel passive, some other range attack skills, a ehp ring for soj, etc....

agree that it's a play style dependent....
killing fast or slow...depends whether u can free a slot or so for other buff skill...what gear u have and how well u survive...how much time u wasted just to get closer to the mob/elites...

I think PB wont make too much difference in killing time for white mobs. Only the elites...

If you can handle all the RD elites well...tank over crap just like a skorn users....there is no reason to change anything.

but i believe it worths some 1h WDs to take a closer look.
For skorn users, they dont have concern about those...
Edited by Luffy#1946 on 6/28/2013 3:31 PM PDT
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I only use plague bats. I like the range. I've tried CoB several times, but Plague bats feels way more useful. Especially with enemies that run away, or have strange flight patterns.

PB all the way!
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@MikeHoncho
I can do runs with u tonight.
I am testing a fun barb if u wanna see....
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@MikeHoncho
I can do runs with u tonight.
I am testing a fun barb if u wanna see....


oic how it is, i invite you to do some runs but im not good enough. :( ha im j/k just trying to ruffle ur feathers.
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Chas pointed out something I have in mind.
PB give me a way to select the targets I wanna attack and give me range.

for those who have other range attack skills together with CoB, PB is good to replace both of them and free up a slot for other buff skills.
TotD users can really benefit from the longer PUR they have.
With less lifesteal compare to skorn users, I can stay out of crap (like plague, molten...).

Another concern is reflect elites. With PB, I can turn around, avoid the RD for some short moment...to get life refill from others and turn back to attack the RD. That again can probably free up the need of horrify armor buff in general farming.

With a little range, you probably can free up some slots for dmg buffs from vessel passive, some other range attack skills, a ehp ring for soj, etc....

agree that it's a play style dependent....
killing fast or slow...depends whether u can free a slot or so for other buff skill...what gear u have and how well u survive...how much time u wasted just to get closer to the mob/elites...

I think PB wont make too much difference in killing time for white mobs. Only the elites...

If you can handle all the RD elites well...tank over crap just like a skorn users....there is no reason to change anything.

but i believe it worths some 1h WDs to take a closer look.
For skorn users, they dont have concern about those...


actually I think the opposite. The problem with plague bats are in the intial winding up phase, because it is a DOT, the life steal from plague bats dot is slower than CoB, even in the initial winding up phase.

For plague bats, it is a dot type of damage, it ticks every 0.5 sec, total duration =5/APS, and deals a total of 5.78 *DPH dmg, but it can stack up to 5 stacks of DOT, and if it crits, the total dmg will increase by crit stats.

So for 1h/mojo, the initial dmg is relatively low and therefore your life steal is low. unlike skorns high dph and high life steal, it ensures good life return.

So even the ramping up phase is shorter than skorn for 1h/mojo for plague bats to stack to max dmg (by stacking 5 DOT dmg), the initial phase is more dangerous. Players have to be aware of a crowd of snake deceiver hit you all at once or similar attacks like maniacs, etc.

But I do agree with you that plague bats deals better with RD elites. particularly RD blazing guardian.

Personally, I don't think either CoB or plague bats can completely replace zombie bears at high mp.
Edited by Neuron#1807 on 6/28/2013 4:16 PM PDT
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Always down for runs Luffy. Shoot me an invite when I get on later.

Here's a VotA run I recorded a while back using PB:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6cPiqQTa9A

Kind of reflects what I said before. I never run into any trouble, but my run takes quite a bit longer than my usual CoB/pestilence or CoB/hex runs (usually around 5min 30 sec).
Edited by MikeHoncho#1169 on 6/28/2013 4:22 PM PDT
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ever since the patch where they changed the way VQ worked, I've run exclusively with CoB in almost all my games and never looked back.

I've tried many other skills since that patch, including PB in the latest patch, but none gave me the same aura of destruction as CoB, regardless of 1H or 2H.
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I find CoB faster from my play style just because I do not like to wait for them. If there is a straggler white I run past them. Elites all come after you. I will say that some ranged ones are a bit annoying, but that is where jinx works well to keep them from running. And CoB + monks owns.

My armor and res is high enough that running into the middle of packs is rarely a problem. The only mobs I find tough with CoB are multiple ground based damage elites with reflect. 1 or 2 at a time and I do fine, but when all 3 or more pop reflect it is insta-death.
Edited by RhymingDemon#1973 on 6/28/2013 5:07 PM PDT
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