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I've tried it many times and I don't like it. CoB does damage instantly, and automatically hits everything around you, whereas Plague Bats does damage as a DoT, and you have to manually aim it.
Just to confirm, I just tried out MP8 with PB instead of CoB, and I can usually faceroll MP8 effortlessly with my CoB/Bears build...I was killing things significantly slower with PB, and my HP was consistently dropping below 50%, whereas with CoB, my HP never goes below 85% unless I'm tanking multiple ground effects or fire chains.
I just find PB inferior because it does somewhat less damage, and it damages a lot slower than CoB. The range isn't enough to justify a big drop in dps. While it does free up the bears slot and allow me to use something like BBV, I just don't like PB.
Edited by Joey#1757 on 6/28/2013 5:27 PM PDT
I noticed one of the reasons people were saying PB was better was because of ranged and odd movement mobs.
Now is it just me, or does anyone else just say f*** those guys and move on?
I see no point in chasing down a mob, or going out of my way to kill 3 archers that are just far enough away to cost 3 CoB activations. And I don't usually mind if elites run away, with either spell you will end up chasing them(Hex ftw.)
My playstyle is to kill groups of 4+ mobs (some exceptions; TREES and Savage Beasts for example! Never know when they will come and mess your day up because you thought it was okay to let them roam around, lol.) I really believe it's a lot faster XP and makes for better Item hunting results.
not really an argument for 1h but when the buff hit i was all cob cob cob, yes it does kill faster but i've now settled down with pb+bears. imo using pb requires more thinking and strategy than cob'ng in the middle of everything (reminiscent of zdogs which i did for the longest time and now allergic to :p). i love pb against wallers and vortex, just stand across an obstacle and hit everything else without care :)
im up for some run so add me up guys!
vs kiting goblins? ya pb owns :)
Edited by juju#6769 on 6/28/2013 6:52 PM PDT
As a long time bear user, I like attacking in a direction. So PB fits my play style.
I just don't get CoB and the whole stand still and do nothing thing.
I've tried it a few times and it is so counter to my play style I will never use it.
Not having any trouble with PB and LS, attacking in more than one direction (Hold down the mouse button and move mouse left or right and you spin), supposed slow DoT damage (which PB is really an acid hose with a 2 -3 second residual DoT) etc.
Never heard so many people talking about tick rate and 1000% damage with CoB. So bears is around 800% damage (3 X 275% per bear). And PB is 600% damage plus the DoT so who knows what it is.
I will tell you PB does as much or more damage as bears, however bears still have a greater range.
Anyway, you can count 4 ticks on CoB for all I care, I'll take a Skorn + PB any day.
You have to think completely differently to run CoB; at first I couldn't stand it either.
The secret is to round up massive herds before you start dealing damage, then abuse GI procs on Spirit Walk. I used to do the same thing with CoL/Sacrifice pre-1.08, especially in VotA and Fields of Slaughter, but I could never get it to work above MP8 or so. Once stuff started dying, things were great, but I couldn't get enough stuff to start dying fast enough to just march into the mob, park and wipe it with Sacrifice spam.
Since CoB hits a lot harder in 360 degrees, this is no longer a problem on MP10. You just drop all your buffs and go to town. Stuff that gets critted dies, and enough stuff gets critted to proc Spirit Walk before you die.
The only bad news is that I'm going to have to upgrade my rubbish defenses now that I need some keys from Act 2.
Sky pretty much hit the nail on the head as to my general thoughts on PB and COB as well as Mike up in an earlier post about PB and bears. It is play style and like sky and mike and all its coming from an older player point of view yet a few thoughts for people.
COB - great skill to use and in reality it can be easier to build a WD around a COB build and defense vs some of the other builds out there (cost wise) yet standing in one place and always getting interrupted and having to restart COB at the large mana cost is not my bag of tea. Sure it does nice damage yet TBH I kill faster with my PB/Bear build then I do if I switch to COB PERIOD.
If I just had bears vs COB for MP10 I probably would still use bears since I like the positioning thoughts behind it and the range of bears with my back against a wall, etc. vs COB's small range yet COB may offer faster killing time runs, etc. yet with that said I have PB and my bears and that, with the right gear, outshines COB. What I have is bear range (huge range when I position) along with PB. You can use PB on all white monsters if you want yet with the passives I run mana is never an issue vs any large pack and so I mix up PB and Bears as needed. PB works godly vs runners and gobbys where bears and LOL COB are IMO worthless as you have to reposition constantly. Again its play style though and to make some builds like bears/PB and also the build sky uses or used to use may be more costly in gear setup. I have found with PB/Bears that my optimal casting with my gear to not be OOM on most elites to be 1.65 attack speed range. If I drop attack speed my PB ramp up suffers to the point that I notice it. If I go into the 1.7 range and higher mana becomes an issue and I already have -22 Bear and some mana regen on so making a bear/PB build is more mana intensive then most builds and you have to play around and work out your gears into the game play.
Things I love about PB:
1. Get walled in, etc. PB away it goes through most everything.
2. Have runners that you have to chase PB away let it ramp up initially and when they run they run off and die or on elites they take a huge hit before you have to reposition but hey I do not chase much since I then use bears lol.
3. Gobby's Gobby's Gobby's need I say more. PB them till it ramps up, they will run but by the time you catch them they are almost dead or dead as they burst while you chase them.
4. PB ramps up nicely with great DOT.
Things I hate about COB
1. The mana cost of getting interrupted at the startup. Just stupid IMO since you seem to get interrupted a lot.
2. Get walled in you are not looking as pretty as you are if you have PB.
Its all play style folks and also what gears you use and build your WD into. COB requires high MIT and especially defense since you are standing toe to toe. Heck if I want to do that I play my Monk or Barb xD.
Side note: Sorry for the walls also.
Making a PB/Bears build is more mana intensive then most builds especially when you play MP10 a lot. You will need a SOJ with ZC reduction (I.E. Bear reduction) as Mike said earlier to really make it work yet if you can get the hang of the build and get the gears to work for you with all the damage buffs you may experience what I have and thats complete fun, positioning fun - for all you old players without the stand still all the time game play.
Its all play style. Its your choice. It just depends on what you want to do.
Edited by Gotcha#1167 on 6/29/2013 6:30 AM PDT
Gotcha pretty much summed everything up.
I use WoS/RoE instead of bears with PB and I don't chase anything.
WoS will take elites down and anything that flies or moves quickly, so I don't use bears and PB.
Everyone has to play their own way, just don't discount PB. IMHO I think it does equivalent damage to CoB or Bears.
You should take a closer look at Plague Bats.
SHHHHHHHH...don't let that secret out lol
haha you guys are funny.
You know for some humor:
when MP lvls came out some of us used to guage our MP lvls as if - you could kill a gobby before it teleported - to if that MP lvl was to high for you. Patches came and then finally we get bat buffs to COB and PB and for PB it was huge in this respect. Now, its not whether we can kill a gobby on a certain MP lvl as much as it is (for us PB users) "go ahead run lets see how far you get now!". I am sure its the same for like sky and his/her PB and WOS yet its still humerous.
Have fun all, no matter what build you use. COB is still a great skill and does huge damage when you choose to build your gears around it.
WD forever! I just love the play style and variable builds that can be used vs the 1 or 2 on every other class. Also for PVP ,PB with the added buff to BR, giving WD that build off HP the ability to hit 4k + LPS now even the tanky barbs are crying lol.
Edited by Gotcha#1167 on 6/30/2013 4:35 AM PDT
glad to see so much comments.....
I kinda enjoy dealing with reflects using PB....
farming is abit slower than CoB tho.
PB excels in pvp no doubt.... (someone tried on me T_T)
Now I am wondering if PB the best for 1h WD to do uber... since SB has a really bada$$ RD.
Gonna do some more tests.
Edited by Luffy#1946 on 6/29/2013 10:08 AM PDT
Seriously try this out, amazing results
You should take a closer look at Plague Bats.
PWNED. Hit on the face hahaha
I have yet to try PB, but I might give it a whirl. I really like playing my Doc, and my wrists are getting a much needed rest from SNS. I am trying to get more DPS, but I finally got over 200K and it feels pretty good right now. If I can get MC and BBV down with 5 stacks of SH and GF I am golden.
That's a sick MGF you have Neuron. I have been looking for one of those for awhile now, but all the good ones are gone quick or 2 bil.
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