Diablo® III

~~ Freeze nerf: Change your SNS Gear ~~

We cannot predict what will be in future, but we can try. When we will make our setups more universal, we will probably be prepared for changes better, than current standard CM/WW setup is.

Well, imagine the day when Wicked Wind will be changed ("nerfed"). That day will, according to devs, for sure come. And it will destroy 2 things: LoH and Freeze.

It's obvious for some, but for others, this thread might change gearing strategy in upcoming months. Becouse lot of us are gearing for long term, not buying whole set in 1 week.

Life on Hit
eDPS vs. DPS. Today, Freezers rely on monsters that stand in 1 place inside our stationary Energy Twisters. Those twisters tick so many times each sec, that we have almost infinite Arcane Power and can cast more and more powerfull spells with high AP cost very quick. This highers our eDPS.

Usually CM Wiz has <200k sheet DPS, but our eDPS is still not THAT high to make LS work that good as good LoH setup.

Imagine the Wicked Wind change that will destroy our freeze. Monsters will not stand inside our Twisters any more, and we will not regain needed life thru Life on Hit.

Freeze
Wicked Wind change will probably destoy our Uber Bosses quality freeze. But not just that, it will very likely make us freeze just once per few seconds.

We will recieve much more damage and when you combine this with non functional Life on Hit, then overall Wicked Wind nerf will make standard Freezer setups just a pure junk.

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What we can do now?
Very likely, gear yourself for less Attack Speed, higher Crit Chance and add Life Steal. You can have the highest AS, but when you don't have stationary monsters inside your AP generator Wicked Wind, you can cast just 0AP cost spells, that do crap damage.

High Attack Speed will be less sexy than it's now, and same for LoH. Will LoH be the new Thorns? I hope it will not be THAT bad.

Building most Universal Setup
We cannot predict what will be in future, but we can try. When we will make our setups more universal, we will probably be prepared for changes better, than current standard Freeze setup is.

Life Steal? Well, currently our only LS slot is a weapon slot. Put some Life Steal sword/dagger there! Will we get new items that will make LS possible for us in different slots too? Good for us! We will be able to rock higher MPs even with <200k DPS setups again, when we will have 2x LS.

Attack Speed? Lower it in favor of sheet DPS. Prepare to hit less but to deal more damage, with Arcane Power pool in mind. High Attack Speed makes your Arcane Power pool empty quick when you use channeled spells, and your Meteor hits are smaller even with so big AP costs.

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Be in the middle
All classes use Life Steal in Inferno and we should go back there again, like in pre Freeze builds times. When our enemies will no longer stand in 1 place frozen, we will be making less hits, so we need to make them bigger - lower your attack speed.

TOP SNS guys are wisely loosing AS breakpoint (and LoH) to go for LS weapon.

Will Chantodos Wand get 1 more roll to give us all Life Steal on top of what we have? Will we be able to get Life Steal also in different slot than weapon, like Barbs/monks? We don't know, but it's very likely that Chantodos Will will loose it's magic as there will be less demand for high AS.
Edited by RobertVarga#1345 on 7/3/2013 1:33 AM PDT
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if anyone is afraid of loosing value or gear rendering useless, i would think gearing for archon would make it "safer". Archon rely on LS, something which i would think is always valuable, unless they do something very drastic. Build also do not rely that much on IAS for BP once u hit above 2. Thus after 2 you can just stack CC/CD (ias too but not THAT important like CM/WW once above 2).
Again cc/cd is something that will have lesser chance of loosing "value". And then it's the standard mit/vit.

TL:DR: Gear for archon if you are afraid of cm/ww nerf. Even if they do nerf any other build (whaaatttt???!!), they will most likely have to buff other skills. Thus you can most likely still use your archon gear for a different build.

PS: RV build an archon already. :P
Edited by Liquid#6905 on 7/3/2013 1:36 AM PDT
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go gear for a blizzard hydra wiz - no chance to get nerfed XD
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if anyone is afraid of loosing value or gear rendering useless, i would think gearing for archon would make it "safer". Archon rely on LS, something which i would think is always valuable, unless they do something very drastic. Build also do not rely that much on IAS for BP once u hit above 2. Thus after 2 you can just stack CC/CD (ias too but not THAT important like CM/WW once above 2).
Again cc/cd is something that will have lesser chance of loosing "value". And then it's the standard mit/vit.

TL:DR: Gear for archon if you are afraid of cm/ww nerf. Even if they do nerf any other build (whaaatttt???!!), they will most likely have to buff other skills. Thus you can most likely still use your archon gear for a different build.

PS: RV build an archon already. :P

+1, Archon gear, but with some APoC, becouse after all we are Wizards, Blizz will wants us need APoC.
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yeh. apoc. Just keep your SC and get a apoc offhand :D.
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Good suggestions so far. Regarding how they are going to deal with the nerf, my feel is that CM,WW and the proc rates are good where they are now. These are not the problem but freeze is. If Blizz at least pay some attention they would be nerfing freeze in a way while not tweaking the rest. WW had been beaten quite badly and for it to work (aka proc CM and LOH/APOC), players have to spent a lot on the gear. Nerfing WW further serves no purpose but only kill the build entirely.

If we look at other classes they have means of spamming their skills almost indefinitely, so CM is the representation for Wiz on that front. It's fun being able to spam meteor, explosive blasts and what not but freeze made everything imba. On one hand I like it, makes it easy for me to kill and farm DE/Legs but on the other hand, I wished they could do something like adding freeze immunity to half of the mobs or even have it as a possible affix on elites/champions. This will provide some balance to the game yet not breaking the build.

But as we know with Blizzard anything can happen. So I am not having any high expectation on this.
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Most high-end gear for CM-WW is good for any build, only the LoH and source/wand will not be as verstile.

Top end CMs are already gearing mostly like Archon. Getting as much dps and mitigation as possible.
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http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/avoid-2691/MELT/19239557
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07/03/2013 01:39 AMPosted by yems
go gear for a blizzard hydra wiz - no chance to get nerfed XD


what yems said.. right now im running my archon spec.. but when i run my bliz/forked build i run my storm crow and my apoc triumv, all other gear the same. for lower mp farming (8 and below) any combination of blizz/hyd/forked/tele will out farm sns/archon. for mp10 with mobility pick up archon tele+cm.. mobs still die fast and you can blink almost on command while in archon form because cm resets it so fast. for mp8 and below i run storm armor scramble for the extra movespeed for the occasions i get hit (in both specs).
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If somehow my gears don't work and I have to start all over again, my readiness is it say bye bye to d3.
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07/03/2013 04:53 AMPosted by yodatoy
If somehow my gears don't work and I have to start all over again, my readiness is it say bye bye to d3.


Agreed
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for those interested... this is my bliz gear set for mp8-10.

for mp5-7 i drop sleet and just run sparkflint
Edited by lameboi#1117 on 7/3/2013 5:13 AM PDT
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07/03/2013 04:53 AMPosted by yodatoy
If somehow my gears don't work and I have to start all over again, my readiness is it say bye bye to d3.

Bliz doesn't like that Freeze is breaking the game mechanics.

I say, we should be able to break game mechanics, if we will put enought effort into it. It should not be an easy task for players, it should need lotta our effort. Just like we did with CM/WW build.

Godly setups should do amazing things. Infinite Teleport in D2 was so much fun!

But, we have o adopt, and maybe, there will be our new godly setup which will do new amazing things. But maybe not.

That would, for sure, s*ck ballz. :-D
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btw
not gona be a nerf for a long time
so you can all stop talking about it
prob wont see one til xpac (there is no 1.09, games not catching an update til xpac, mark my words <3)
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07/03/2013 01:39 AMPosted by yems
go gear for a blizzard hydra wiz - no chance to get nerfed XD

It would be so cool if we could make it as efficient as SNS in MP10. :-D
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07/03/2013 05:24 AMPosted by RobertVarga
go gear for a blizzard hydra wiz - no chance to get nerfed XD

It would be so cool if we could make it as efficient as SNS in MP10. :-D


if you run the spec i run.. it pretty much is

i use ss/blizz on elites
and forked/blizz on most whites
ss/blizz on big whites (tremors, golgors, chargers)

forked/blizz on the rest. blink, get hit, blink, get hit, blink

every time you enter a zone you're looking at a 400+ kill streak heh ^_-

(illuz > CM for a blizz spec btw. tele 100% of time off CD, only reason you runpinpoint is not to get 1 shot on mp10.. for mp8 and below, storm armor 25% movespeed all the way)
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Just collect ess and wait for the changes.

If you are changing keep in mind its likely that in terms of the real dps multiplier:
2.14286 good
2.30770 bad
2.50001 good
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8770117237?page=7#129

1 twister
28 tick rate
908 loh
82.5 twister crit chance
10835 shard life
2.14286 breakpoint
4.7748 cm rate(3.5811/.75 from http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8770117237?page=7#129)

loh avg return from 6 second 1 target
908 * 28 * 0.125 = 3178 life

shard avg return from 6 second 1 target
10853 * 6 (seconds) * 4.7748 * .825 / 12.75 (after evocation reduction) = 33533 life
Edited by RulerEric#1854 on 7/3/2013 5:59 AM PDT
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07/03/2013 05:30 AMPosted by lameboi

It would be so cool if we could make it as efficient as SNS in MP10. :-D


if you run the spec i run.. it pretty much is

blabla

It's not, by far, becouse when you encounter Shaman elites and such, Sleet Storm is really terrible. Monsters that have knockback, Teleport or just walk/slide outta you are eDPS fail for those builds.

Against those, you'll end up with Blizz/Forked, and that's slow.

Something has to change to make those build viable versus SNS.
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07/03/2013 04:53 AMPosted by yodatoy
If somehow my gears don't work and I have to start all over again, my readiness is it say bye bye to d3.


Yoda try gearing out some more toons. You jumped ship on the WD before COB buff. The dmg on it is INSANE and it's very fun to play.

I've geared 3 toons out now and plan to gear up the Monk next but my love for gaming has always been with spellcasters. Once the WD hits 100 i'm not going to have nearly as much fun playing my toons but will still enjoy upgrades on them and helping groups with Monk and uber carries with Barb.

Once I hit 100 on the wiz and hit the nats goal, then caught wind of a future nerf any incentive to upgrade has gone away.

You and Lameboi need to get on mumble too that's another big % of the fun.
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I have an "emergency" 30 apoc 3% lifesteal, ~800 LOH 400k ehp, 58cc, ~170k dps setup in my stash

With those stats you can do any possible build with a wiz on any difficulty level.

So no matter what they break, I will be able to experiment and find a decent build, and fine-tune it from there.

The idea is that when itemization hits, there will be major skill "net buffs" that will make farming with your current gear pretty hard,... posing a problem for non-credit card users, who will have a tough time farming the new gear or trades for the new gear that is required to actually play with the "net buffs" in place. So my goal is to hoard a set of gear I can farm in no matter what is "net buffed" into oblivion.
Edited by Shaggy#1317 on 7/3/2013 7:01 AM PDT
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