Diablo® III

WOTB/Thrive on Chaos vs Sweeping Wind/Cyclone

I p100 my monk a couple weeks ago and was very happy with the the game play and the build itself. I am currently playing the barb and overall opinion is that both classes are extremely powerful and have unique skills that set them apart but also make them similar in a way.

I have read that many disagree with WOTB/TOC because it allows for the skill to be up for almost 60-100% of the time depending on skill and type of gear the character has. However, no one complains about sweeping wind being up pretty much 100% of the time as there is no cool down just a pricey spirit cost. Both skills allow for a significant amount of damage the problem is sweeping wind does "invisible" damage and WOTB is directly observed dps. I am not convinced that having WOTB up 100% of the time is superior to having sweeping wind/cyclone strike up 100% of the time. A monk with high attack speed and CC can blast out up to 10-15 cyclones when they hit a mob. Each cyclone does 26% damage along with the sweeping wind around the character that is doing 60% damage. Overall, this can be upwards of around 600% damage which is 6xs your dps being distributed, albeit it is spread out, it is a lot of damage being applied. Furthermore, if you are dropping bells this is another 800%+ damage. CRAZYYY damage!!! My monk only has 160k dps and I can KILL mp10 with all these buffs.

I realize that many of you will argue that you can't calculate it like that or look at it that way but the bottom line is sweeping wind/cyclone strike is EXTREMELY powerful and no one has ever discussed or complained about it being up 100% of the time. However, WOTB/TOC is being considered nerfed??? WHAT....WHY??? I am not sold that WOTB/TOC is so superior to sweeping wind/cyclone that it even needs to be considered for any change what so ever.

The two skills are very powerful. Bottom line is leave both of the skills alone. If you nerf or make WOTB more difficult to keep up 60-100% of the time then you must consider nerfing sweeping wind.

Is 10%CC + 25% IAS much more superior to upwards of 600% damage???

Leave it all alone. This is one thing the devs got right the first time around.
Edited by Imperium#1547 on 7/3/2013 2:51 PM PDT
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The unbalanced part is about the insane movement speed and CC immunity from Wrath, not the damage output.
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Nerf Monk OP
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That's exactly right Ungiven, does any class have a perma-buff that gives them a godmode?

We herd you liek CC Immunity, so we put CC Immunity in an already overpowered buff....
Edited by Rii#1628 on 7/3/2013 2:58 PM PDT
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^

Issue is CC immunity. That is why there haven't been any "Nerf Sweeping Wind" threads by any jobs. DPS gains aren't really a problem when choice skills are considered but again it's the Barb's ability to just shake off anything that should be controlling your tune.

Image if elites and champs didn't have Frozen, Nightmare, Slow, or anything like. You would more than likely see Barbs shedding WOTB:TOC and replace it with another high damaging skill or rune.
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Yeah I'm pretty sure it's the CC immunity that the community has a problem with. Crazy dmg output is something most people can get if they invest enough time (I mean spend a lot of $$ Lolamarite?) but who can get CC immunity like that?
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And how many have gone away from Thunderclap and moved towards Quickening or Way of Hundred Fist: Blazing Fist or Fist of Fury?

I'd like you to explain to me what's wrong with thunderclap? The teleport? lol
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The problem isnt WOTB, its whiney people.
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Thanks for the conversation on this.

Travis Day stated " the problem is when it becomes a forgone conclusion that these AWESOME abilities are up 100% of the time and instead of being excited that they are up you are annoyed when they fall off." This statement makes it seem like a ToC problem.

As a community we can agree that it being up 60-100% of the time is not a problem its the CC immunity. I can see how that is unfair no ice...no jailer...and NEVER vortex into arcane!!!!

So, it sounds like a CC immunity problem more so than I have WOTB up 100% of the time running around really fast like a madman and dealing extra damage in the process. So CC immunity just needs to be reevaluated, fair enough.
Edited by Imperium#1547 on 7/3/2013 3:05 PM PDT
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Sweeping Wind should be nerfed as well to be honest. But you did completely miss the part about immune to CC. Any ability that can be self sustained and 'always' on probably needs to be tweaked a little.
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07/03/2013 03:17 PMPosted by Ender
Sweeping Wind should be nerfed as well to be honest. But you did completely miss the part about immune to CC. Any ability that can be self sustained and 'always' on probably needs to be tweaked a little.


Saying Sweeping Wind should be nerfed because it is up 100% of the time is like saying my Mantras should be nerfed because they're up 100% of the time.

SW was designed to be kept up constantly during fighting, without aid from a rune like WotB. Now if you want to argue the possible imbalance of Cyclone, that's a different story.
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07/03/2013 03:03 PMPosted by RagingKoala
The problem isnt WOTB, its whiney people.

This is the only reply worth reading in this thread.
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07/03/2013 03:27 PMPosted by nekkra
Go round up 5 random elite packs and fight them at the same time with your monk


Do it in MP10 Inferno as well.

Beating the dead horse again, players are complaining the "CC IMMUNITY" of WOTB due to the fact that well geared Barb can keep it up 100% of the time, nothing to do with damage output.
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OK let me break it down for you

Go round up 5 random elite packs and fight them at the same time with your monk

No go do on your barb

Now you know the difference


Not sure what you are saying, they both will die unless they have the top 0.5% of gear in the game.

07/03/2013 03:22 PMPosted by Monarlais
Saying Sweeping Wind should be nerfed because it is up 100% of the time is like saying my Mantras should be nerfed because they're up 100% of the time


Sweeping wind should be nerfed because almost every monk spec uses it. Huge passive damage adds like SW are just too strong compared to other skills. You can't buff everything to match it so you have to nerf it and buff other skills.
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Sweeping wind should be nerfed because almost every monk spec uses it. Huge passive damage adds like SW are just too strong compared to other skills.


That reasoning would mean nerfing WotB:ToC, BR:ITF, and Barb passives (Ruthless and Weapons Master.)

Sweeping wind isn't a passive, you have to refresh it by recasting it (which is costly without inna's 4 piece set.) Or you have to hit something.

07/03/2013 03:22 PMPosted by Monarlais
SW was designed to be kept up constantly during fighting

With inna's set making SW only cost 5 spirit and providing a small amount of spirit regen. SW uptime should be 100%.
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while in wotb you can be vortexed and knocked back. the op not knowing this shows that hes never played a barb and shouldnt be posting about nerf them period. have a nice day.
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One thing here is that people are exploiting the mechanic of Sweeping Wind, which is why it is so powerful. When Sweeping Wind is activated it takes a "capture" of your current DPS power and uses that as a basis for the damage output of the spell. So clever players can swap to high damage weapons with little else to their advantage, drop spells like Blinding Flash>Faith in the Light and Breath of Heaven>Blazing Wrath and then pop Sweeping Wind to maximize the potential.

It is kind of a broken mechanic, but you have to give credit to whoever realized it and started taking advantage of it. It has been around for a long time and it doesn't seem that Blizzard is in a rush to fix it so I say exploit it as much as you can.
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07/03/2013 09:18 PMPosted by Jtveclipse12
That reasoning would mean nerfing WotB:ToC, BR:ITF, and Barb passives (Ruthless and Weapons Master.


Yes. There are a good 10-15 skills that should probably be nerfed but ONLY if they are buffing the 50-60 skills that are too weak at the same time.
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