Diablo® III

Game punishes you for being different.

Builds are dependent on items..... which suck.
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I miss D2, there wasn't this thing of better build ):
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07/01/2013 06:31 PMPosted by Grimiku
Thank you for your feedback! Build diversity is a big topic, and something we're always interested in hearing about. I think there will always be a build that yields the highest performance, but the question is about the variance. Do you feel that there are no builds even close to the Cloud of Bats build(s)?


Compare Cloud of Bats to Ray of frost - Sleet Storm

Cloud of Bats
Call forth a swirl of bats that damage nearby enemies for 501% weapon damage as Fire. The damage of the bats increases by 20% every second, up to a maximum of 100%.

Sleet Storm
Create a swirling storm around you, dealing 364% weapon damage as Cold to all enemies caught within it.


It's basically the same channelled spell on 2 different classes. And,,, one does almost double the damage of the other. The imbalances between some skills is ridiculous.

Compare Vault-trail of cinders to sprint-rltw. They are both mobility skills that deal some damage to enemies. You can easily do a run on a high mp and do most of your damage with sprint tornadoes. Can you imagine doing most of your damage on a high mp run with trail of cinders? No, because the spells are completely imbalanced.

It seems to me as if blizzards forumlas don't fully take into consideration variable resource regeneration across builds within the same class. This leads to the high resource regen builds completely dominating the scene for most classes.
Edited by Atomize#1137 on 7/4/2013 7:24 PM PDT
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Well, Eifersucht, while I don't think that we really want D2's synergy system back, which was more build-limiting than build-enabling, and while skill trees with prerequisites do seem to be passé, I think you're missing the point of skill points. We could definitely do with a skill point system, as long as it was also coupled with a reasonable (but not 100% unrestricted) respec model. D2 had one of those too:

"From Patch 1.13, Diablo 2 players can now respec; there are two ways to perform a respecialization.
The first such way is to complete the Den of Evil quest, granting one respec per difficulty completed in 1.13. If this quest is completed before 1.13, one free respec will be given to players on Hell difficulty.
The second way to get a respec is to obtain the four essences as random drops from the Act Bosses.
  • Twisted Essence of Suffering from Andariel or Duriel
  • Charged Essence of Hatred from Mephisto
  • Burning Essence of Terror from Diablo
  • Festering Essenece of Destruction from Baal

Combining this four objects in a Horadric Cube will create a Token of Absolution, granting the desired respec."
Source: http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Respecialization

Now, D3 has neither Den of Evil nor Horadric Cube, but it seems to me like this could still be reworked for the current game; and if not, the devs could also crib from later games like Iron Lore's TQ, or Grinding Gear's PoE.

No, the result may not be perfect, but must we let the perfect be the enemy of the good, even when what we have isn't good enough? There are a lot of bright people who play games, who will always find the loopholes in the game's rules (i.e. code), but I don't think we should let that discourage an effort to improve the rule set.
Edited by Waitubold#1127 on 7/4/2013 7:55 PM PDT
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Sure not all the skills can be equal but if you don't pick exactly the cookie cutter build of the moment you simply suffer in terms of performance. In what universe do you have a skill that does 1000% damage (cloud of bats) for 66 mana and not expect every single WD to jump on it?

I'm sick of trying to have a different kind of build, im sick of being punished for not wanting the same build as everyone else.

Build diversity is joke in this game.


I agree, but I don't use bats. I can be in MP10.
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07/01/2013 05:07 PMPosted by blackjack
Sure not all the skills can be equal but if you don't pick exactly the cookie cutter build of the moment you simply suffer in terms of performance. In what universe do you have a skill that does 1000% damage (cloud of bats) for 66 mana and not expect every single WD to jump on it?


I hate COB.. I still use Zombie Bears....
I actually gave COB a shot... Didn't like it... Even being OP, didn't like it...
I would go poison bats before I hit Cloud of Bats..
Just my Take..

Freddy
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07/01/2013 06:31 PMPosted by Grimiku
Thank you for your feedback! Build diversity is a big topic, and something we're always interested in hearing about. I think there will always be a build that yields the highest performance, but the question is about the variance. Do you feel that there are no builds even close to the Cloud of Bats build(s)?


I have a very unique build that some laugh at... But for my gear, I think that I am pretty tuff.. I like it... I don't like to go cookie-cutter... I actually avoid it at all costs... You can be tuff and unique at the same time.. I don't believe that you always have to go cookie-cutter.. I actually got trolled BIG-TIME on my build in another post... Don't care.. Play-Style counts for a lot in my opinion.
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Build diversity isn't a joke, your ability to put something new together is.

Now look at my spec and mock me!
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07/01/2013 05:53 PMPosted by ClancyKid19
If I may interject the opposing point of view into the discussion. If you REALLY like other skills, then use them.


Exactly. The problem posed exists only so long as one can only have fun doing the maximum possible damage.

I ended up with whatever skills feel most natural together. I can solo mp4-mp5 no problem on my monk and DH. I'm sure people with the same gear might come up with higher rates of DPS but whatever. I simply don't care enough to go looking up the cookie cutter build of the moment so I can do 10k more DPS.
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07/04/2013 02:35 PMPosted by zombiehunter
I miss D2, there wasn't this thing of better build ):


Yes hammerdins were definitely not miles ahead of all the other builds. You're absolutely correct.
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07/01/2013 06:31 PMPosted by Grimiku
Do you feel that there are no builds even close to the Cloud of Bats build(s)?


you're an absolute schmuck to not use cloud of bats. why be 100% less efficient to use any other spell
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You are not unique as you did not build your own character, the CPU did it for you.
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I'm just going to mention something I'm sure has been mentioned MANY times.

The skill system as a whole needs to go IMO. I would rather have the D2-style skill tree with the ability to respec at a cost of millions of gold or a quest/grind like patch 1.12. I miss building my character not just picking a few skills and going with it. I spent hours writing out builds and testing them in D2. Now... I just click a different skill and grab 5 NV stacks. I don't like it. It's very very boring for me. I want to build my character again, it's one of the reasons people loved D2. This game has felt like a mediocre console game since release and with the recent announcement of the console version I understand why. You guys were cutting corners it seems. Not trying to be harsh but I spent a lot of time on Diablo II and since Blizzard decided to start deleting accounts on D2 after 90 days, I feel forced to play D3 now if I want to keep an account online and take a 90 day break. Since that's the case, I feel obligated to share my opinion.

Once you fix the lack of character building, then you can start balancing skills. We've been beta testing this retail game for a year now, I don't think we mind beta testing something a lot of us miss from D2.
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ShadowA;

Builds and efficiency in all games there will always be builds that are super efficient in farming. Even ones that are miles ahead of others. This happens all of the time, the only way around it IMO would be to homogenize all abilities of all classes. Doing that would be boring to say the least.

Farming: Tell me what else is there to do in Diablo 3 but farming. I want to know what else is there do, is there some secret thing that I am not aware of that is a special thing to do other than farm. I cannot think of anything else in this game to do but farm. Some would say brawling would be fine. But even that would only be fun for a little while.

Also in that quote I did not say that farming should be the only thing to do. But alas in this game that right Diablo 3, D3, D3, D3, just in case you did not hear it right the first time is farming. Did I make it that way? Of course not, that is unless you think that I am Jay incognito using a different battle tag which I would not do.

I know that you are not used to playing without points to spend, but me I can live without them. I can choose many different builds that are for fun. Trust me each one has it's weaknesses and strengths just like all builds do.


I think the two of us have spoken past each other at some point.. I agree that there is nothing to do in this game than to farm... I think I said that before.. And its a BIG problem since it gets so boring so quick (in D2 we atleast had character builds, ladder, decent PvP, a fun secret level (Ponyland?), rewarding key runs and uber quests), so I think we agree more on some points than you want to...

But I don't agree that the Skill and Stat system we have in D3 can be described as builds, its basically the CPU who give us everything and then we can pick between all of them. And since all skills are based on weapon DMG, the only thing we have an impact on is our gear (very nice for whoever runs the RMAH ;)
You can keep tossing skills and ask me to make a decent build from it, but its not a build in the first place and thats the problem I'm adressing.. The only thing we are "building" in this system is the amount of gold and gear thus we have to "farm"...

Its just a terrible system and you haven't given any argument that it's better other that " then I am FORCED to level a new character if I !@#$ up" - a redundent statement if they had given respecs based on a quest or something like that..
Then both camps would have been happy... You chould jump back and forth for 6 months on one WD (like an MMO) and I could build 3 WDs all with a different - hardcoded - setup (more like an ARPG)...
Can't see why we all have to play it the MMO way only (the way that completely differs from its predecessor, one of the reasons for so much hate directed at D3)

EDIT; I dont want to talk about specific skills because im talking about the the allocation system regarding Skills and Stats in D3... All the specific skills can come later, the core system on how to level and build a character should be established first... And the system in D3 is just to boring and completely lack elements of an ARPG to many...

Its just to much like an FPS with this auto stat-allocation and LVL-Unlock skill system...
I have been preached "More Availability (and easy since you can't make a mistake), More Diverce Builds", but the cost of character customization is just to great for many ARPG players...

Dont want to sound condescending, but I fell like I have to explain it all over again to you ( I miss a good ARPG and I know Blizz understand this issue in D3 - many posts on many forums over the year about the D3 system and many quitters because of the D3 system)
Edited by Psychonaut#2909 on 7/8/2013 6:27 AM PDT
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^
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