Diablo® III

Do the people that want a "self-found" mode..

07/03/2013 01:15 PMPosted by Capo
Not neccesarily... As an example, in the auction house I can decide I want a thorns build and go out and buy all the highest damage to melee attackers equipment in 10 minutes. Can't do that in a self found server, you farm, you stash, you farm, you stash, repeat. You might end up with a high life regeneration build because that's what dropped for you and have to play a build that works around what dropped for you. That's FUN!!!


Where do you get the gold to just go to the AH and buy what ever you want?

Want to know where I get the gold? .... "you farm, you stash, you farm, you stash, repeat. "


I flip items on the auction house, I make gold much faster doing that than farming in game.
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Want to be able to play self-found easier?

Or want there to be a way for them to show how awesome their self-found character is by having them only compared to other self-found characters?


To me, it is compete or play together with selfies.
The itemization is crappy and everyone knows that. Still the game should not be played just with your credit card and immediately you got end of game gear and go with it.
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07/03/2013 01:05 PMPosted by Capo
What happens when a BiS item drops for you right when you enter Inferno? That really ruins your whole plan of getting upgrades all the time.
Not really.

In D3 BiSness is based on dps. Which is based on critical chance, critical damage attack speed and attribute. All of them are multipliers as opposed to static additions.

What's funny about the item system is that just equiping a single BiS item won't take your dps to the clouds. Because it is all based on scaling. If your other gear is mediocre, you will not get a huge dps upgrade by just equiping the item.

In the hypothetical scenario, a BiS drop might allow you to skip to MP2, maybe, but then you would still need to grind for the other slots.

For skeptics, just try it. Pick the best item from your hero and give it to a hero that just became level 60. Watch the poor upgrade.
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07/03/2013 01:17 PMPosted by vexorian
What happens when a BiS item drops for you right when you enter Inferno? That really ruins your whole plan of getting upgrades all the time.
Not really.

In D3 BiSness is based on dps. Which is based on critical chance, critical damage attack speed and attribute. All of them are multipliers as opposed to static additions.

What's funny about the item system is that just equiping a single BiS item won't take your dps to the clouds. Because it is all based on scaling. If your other gear is mediocre, you will not get a huge dps upgrade by just equiping the item.

In the hypothetical scenario, a BiS drop might allow you to skip to MP2, maybe, but then you would still need to grind for the other slots.

For skeptics, just try it. Pick the best item from your hero and give it to a hero that just became level 60. Watch the poor upgrade.

This is correct.
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You are correct, how would you improve itemization and how drops work? I'm all for having more fun and out of all that I have read, the best idea so far is the self found server with improved drop rates.


Removing weapon damage as the end all be all. Bringing back item types and item requirements. Bring back elemental damage. Add affixes that work with skills... and are actually beneficial. Add new affixes that I can't think of but game designers can. That's just a start.

In D3 the only items with value or ilvl 63 (with a few exceptions)... you can only farm these in the hardest difficulty... and you require these same items to farm efficiently. In D2 there were items you could get at level 40 or 50 or 60 that were just as good as items that were level 80 or 90. There were runes that were common and there were runes that were rare. You could combine common runes to make rare runes. Basically... the itemization allowed players to "work their way up" the economy. In D3 you get to Inferno and there is a WALL... you can't farm for the good items without first getting the good items to farm for the items. That's the problem. That is why everyone rushes to by gold and use the RMAH... because you hit a wall. You either get really lucky farming Inferno at a snails pace or use the RMAH. In D2 you could gradually acquire wealth and work your way up to a wealthy state... in D3 that type of progression doesn't exist... not without using the AH by a means of investment... when many of us would rather just play the game.
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Ofcourse it will be a challenge.
To reach mp5 will be rough and tough.. stuff.
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Not really.

In D3 BiSness is based on dps. Which is based on critical chance, critical damage attack speed and attribute. All of them are multipliers as opposed to static additions.

What's funny about the item system is that just equiping a single BiS item won't take your dps to the clouds. Because it is all based on scaling. If your other gear is mediocre, you will not get a huge dps upgrade by just equiping the item.

In the hypothetical scenario, a BiS drop might allow you to skip to MP2, maybe, but then you would still need to grind for the other slots.

For skeptics, just try it. Pick the best item from your hero and give it to a hero that just became level 60. Watch the poor upgrade.


If you equip an item in slot and that item has very high values for all the stats you need for that slot there is nothing else you could equip in that slot that would make any difference.
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If they made a SF mode with slightly better drops, I'd play it.
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I've been gaming for 31 years. Atari 2600, C-64, etc. Games were OK, but it all changed with Wolfenstein, Doom 1/2/3, and other similar games.

In those games, you ran around looking for the next weapon upgrade. For me, that carried over to D1, D2/LOD, and other games in the same genre.

Early on, I called it "Living off the Land," as there were no AH, multi-player to swap gear with other players, etc. You used what you found, till you got something better.

I've carried that forward to D3, using whatever was an upgrade (within limits of course, not willing to swap gear that would mean a downgrade in one part for an upgrade in another.)

Now, I did hit walls in D3, mainly I needed weapons that did more DPS so my damage output was higher - especially when facing a boss. First character to face Belial did 200 damage, but that was the highest DPS weapon I had found (a sword with Intel for my mage lol). So eventually, I used the GAH, to get a better weapon for my characters.

But even with the two new characters I'm playing now, I'm living off the land so far. If only I could find some weapons with higher damage sigh, but that's another discussion.

However, why we need yet another definition is beyond me. Play the game, live off the land, don't use the AH houses if you don't want to. What's so hard about this that you need a name to call the game you're playing, or set your character apart from others?

Game on.
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I know its easy to hate self-found forum posters, they're hipsters. But giving them their own mode would be useful for more than stoking their sanctimonious egos. Playing by using the AH makes you more powerful, more quickly. In a group of 4 people, assuming they all invest roughly the same amount of time, if 3 people use the AH and one person does not then that single self found player is going to spend most of his time being carried. This is generally not good/enjoyable for anyone and could be improved upon by giving self found players their own domain.
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MVP - Technical Support
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There are a few who really want shiny stars stickers, but I would say that is the minority - most of the dialog on that comes in the form of an accusation thrown about most loudly by the anti-SF crowd.

There has always been a portion of the Diablo playerbase that plays the game primarily to trade. They love that aspect and I think it is great that Blizzard gave them a safe and sanctioned way to do that. For others, it is a way to get that last upgrade they need safely even if they really don't care about the AH overall.

However, what I do not like is that the majority of players, those who just want to play and find upgrades, are now forced into a game where the drop rates are balanced around the concept of an AH. They were not traders in D2 and they don't want to be now. They want to play a game where the game itself is rewarding without an external resource. The AH should certainly stay, but it should be an optional nice-to-have thing, not a "necessity"(yes, I know it is not a real necessity, but with current itemization many players feel like it is). The thrill of finding your own item is far greater than what you get when buying one. For them, that is what is fun. After all, once you buy all the best equipment what point is there in playing and looking for drops if you do not want to play the AH.

Sure, people have the option not to use the AH and many play that way. The more common complaints are about ensuring that the game mechanics support it such as a shared stash between SF flagged chars only (much like Hardcore mode) and the ability to create games with others who play the same mode. AH heroes are going to be far far better geared and do not enjoy being matched with lower gear players and vice versa. Another option would be a gear level matching system for game creation...but that might limit availability of games.
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"So you want it easier."
Your argument is as bad as the DE people. You might even be in this band wagon. They think that if you take less time to do something, it makes it easier. So getting more DE makes the game easier, when it actually helps the game rather than hurt it. People want to feel rewarded for what they do, not forced to do something they don't want to. That's what SF has been about and people asking for better DE drop rates. Why do something with 10x the effort when you don't benefit from it?
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There are a few who really want shiny stars stickers, but I would say that is the minority - most of the dialog on that comes in the form of an accusation thrown about most loudly by the anti-SF crowd.

There has always been a portion of the Diablo playerbase that plays the game primarily to trade. They love that aspect and I think it is great that Blizzard gave them a safe and sanctioned way to do that. For others, it is a way to get that last upgrade they need safely even if they really don't care about the AH overall.

However, what I do not like is that the majority of players, those who just want to play and find upgrades, are now forced into a game where the drop rates are balanced around the concept of an AH. They were not traders in D2 and they don't want to be now. They want to play a game where the game itself is rewarding without an external resource. The AH should certainly stay, but it should be an optional nice-to-have thing, not a "necessity"(yes, I know it is not a real necessity, but with current itemization many players feel like it is). The thrill of finding your own item is far greater than what you get when buying one. For them, that is what is fun. After all, once you buy all the best equipment what point is there in playing and looking for drops if you do not want to play the AH.

Sure, people have the option not to use the AH and many play that way. The more common complaints are about ensuring that the game mechanics support it such as a shared stash between SF flagged chars only (much like Hardcore mode) and the ability to create games with others who play the same mode. AH heroes are going to be far far better geared and do not enjoy being matched with lower gear players and vice versa. Another option would be a gear level matching system for game creation...but that might limit availability of games.


How about just implementing groups instead of a separate mode. Join groups and have the Matchmaking system place you with "group-mates" if you want. You can join the group with a single character or your entire account... the choice is yours.

That seems to be the most logical choice. Some people play SF to clear Inferno, and once they do it, they start using the AH. That would allow them to play with SF players and leave the SF ground any time they want.

It would make "finding Iron Man" players or other niche challenge a bit easier.

We don't need modes, we need groups.
Edited by DoomBringer#1994 on 7/3/2013 2:32 PM PDT
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Well if you're playing in a game as self-found with non-self-found, yeah you're disqualified.
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07/03/2013 02:34 PMPosted by Socrates
Well if you're playing in a game as self-found with non-self-found, yeah you're disqualified.


So you agree they shouldn't co-exist?
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07/03/2013 02:25 PMPosted by MissCheetah
However, what I do not like is that the majority of players, those who just want to play and find upgrades, are now forced into a game where the drop rates are balanced around the concept of an AH. They were not traders in D2 and they don't want to be now.

Amen to that, it's almost a complete clone of how I feel!

Unfortunately, I'm becoming so bored of the ah that I've started to avoid it when I log in. Even avoiding logging in because I'd have to deal with some pesky return or even worse, listing a new item. That take full minutes, I mean, I'm not made of time now am I!?

I'm gonna start a self-found character I guess, but I'd be forced to solo or be dragged.. And I wouldn't be able to play with people I've met because they'd be in a different tier for sure and even if we by miracle would converge at some point, the moment would be brief.

Hopefully, blizzard does seriously consider the SF mode, many would be exhilarated to learn about it's implementation. Or so I believe.
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Diablo was never a trading game for me, it was only about monstermashing.
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07/03/2013 01:16 PMPosted by Ravenprince
flip items on the auction house, I make gold much faster doing that than farming in game.


Where do you get the gold to buy items from the AH in order to flip them ?
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