Diablo® III

Seriously, I don't get Plague Bats

Yep, another one of these threads.

After many times trying Plague Bats, I seriously don't get why people claim it's superior to Cloud of Bats. Its damage is much lower, and much more random than CoB's, and while it can only be aimed in one direction at a time, that's not too much of an issue.

Every time I've tried to use it, its low damage just infuriates me. Sometimes I'll hit a mob with it and it will tick for 70-80k, whereas other times it'll tick for 500-600k. Whether or not it does 70k or 500k seems to be completely random, but...why/how the !@#$ is it ticking for 70k in the first place? CoB never randomly hits for pathetic damage, why does PB? In general, PB's damage seems very, VERY random, whereas CoB is always critting for roughly the same amounts.

I just...how exactly is PB superior? It has longer range, but lower and completely random damage. I rarely see it tick for more than 1mil unless I've got a damage buff active. (Jinx, BBV) I'd like to use PB, as it's very useful in multiplayer games, but every time I use it, the horrid damage just annoys the hell out of me and I'm constantly wanting to switch right back to CoB.
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ghom mp10 solo
CoB - 1minute 30second
PB - 2 minute 50 second
CoB wins

kulle & siegebreaker mp10 solo
CoB - inconsistent kill due to chasing kulle around and siegebreaker pick you up all the time even with pets in melee range.
PB - easy fight almost sure kill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1VSWXPWE7Y
PB wins

none is superior to the other but depends on your playstyle
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Yeah, that's what I found the situation to be, mostly.

For general farming, I find CoB to be far superior. But for doing things like pulling 40+ mobs in Fields of Misery, PB works much better because you can hit everything in the huge group, instead of just mobs that are right next to you.

But that's really the only place where I find that it was better: huge groups of mobs. (I'm talking 10+ mobs) Just 2-3 mobs, I struggle to stay alive sometimes because the damage output is lower than CoB's.
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plague bats is only good if you have high dps, because after certain dps level, cob is pretty much overkill for regular mobs, where as plague bats provides enough dps, and has range.
Edited by pBeybq#6872 on 7/8/2013 11:17 PM PDT
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matters on the situation.

PB for compact maps (VOTA) CoB for open is how I run it.

PB does slower damage on Ghom only if you are not pairing it with bears. Paired with bears you can shred a single target much faster than CoB

As a note some targets die faster to CoB than PB and the other way around so it also mattters what type of mobs you are fighting.

and when it comes to finding goblins, nothing melts goblins faster than PB....I am not sure if it is whatever resistances or lack of res a treasure gob has, but PB annihilates a TG in mp10 ridiculously fast.

Also PB seems to be slower on snakes, where it excels at runners, and some other mobs in a2 especially.

My VoTA runs are way shorter and safer with PB/Bears, where the open field maps are way faster with CoB. In a party game I find CoB generally helps kill faster, but PB allows for more versatility supporting the party.
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I have the same problem with CoB. Bears and PB have the same play style. CoB is like a damage vortex.
And how does anyone kill anything with CoB? Run after stuff and hope to vortex it?

And I'm just conditioned not to stand in stuff that kills my character.

Which does more damage, under what conditions, will be debated forever.
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I use PB exclusively. I don't like the range on CoB. I do just fine in every situation (except Act IV. Still have a hard time there).

Maybe CoB is faster, but I prefer the range on PB. Especially when fighting enemies that run away, or teleport.
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CoB paired with locust pestilence works well.
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And how does anyone kill anything with CoB? Run after stuff and hope to vortex it?


...You stand still and channel it while mobs walk into it? You don't need to "run after" anything except mobs that run away from you. And you've got Hex for those.
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PB does slower damage on Ghom only if you are not pairing it with bears. Paired with bears you can shred a single target much faster than CoB


Spot on!


As a note some targets die faster to CoB than PB and the other way around so it also mattters what type of mobs you are fighting.


Interesting.. will experiment it when im in the mood. The fact that some mobs can hit me while slightly out of my cob range makes me /sad/


and when it comes to finding goblins, nothing melts goblins faster than PB....I am not sure if it is whatever resistances or lack of res a treasure gob has, but PB annihilates a TG in mp10 ridiculously fast.


Agreed


My VoTA runs are way shorter and safer with PB/Bears, where the open field maps are way faster with CoB. In a party game I find CoB generally helps kill faster, but PB allows for more versatility supporting the party.


With vota its easy to streamline bears while open field its harder so cob has better advantage.
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PB for compact maps (VOTA) CoB for open is how I run it.

PB does slower damage on Ghom only if you are not pairing it with bears. Paired with bears you can shred a single target much faster than CoB

Agree with the first part.

But how does one maintain mana for the second part?

PB ramps up, drop some bears, and then PB with honored guest, and then no more mana for bears, and possibly OOM with just Bats.
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PB for compact maps (VOTA) CoB for open is how I run it.

PB does slower damage on Ghom only if you are not pairing it with bears. Paired with bears you can shred a single target much faster than CoB

Agree with the first part.

But how does one maintain mana for the second part?

PB ramps up, drop some bears, and then PB with honored guest, and then no more mana for bears, and possibly OOM with just Bats.


The one guy is using 0Dog gear to get all his mana back with Pride, so he's sort of like a 0Dogger in that mana is not a problem. I have no idea how anyone else would do it unless you stacked at least two mana passives. Even then I dunno. Bears is so hard by itself to sustain.
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PB does slower damage on Ghom only if you are not pairing it with bears. Paired with bears you can shred a single target much faster than CoB


Utter rubbish. The only time you see that happening is if you keep stutter-step moving with CoB, then it becomes the player who doesn't know how to hold a simple channel.

For the WD class with equal DPS, nothing beats CoB in raw damage output - talking about MP10 here, where things don't die in 1-shot.
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I'm not even sure I understand what they are saying.

Cast PB until full ramp up, then switch to bears? Wouldn't PB be doing more damage to a single target at that point? Wouldn't switching to bears just lower your damage? I always thought the big advantage of bears was it's massive AOE, not particularly single target unless you can get to a wall.

Is it the DOT part of PB? I'll admit I have no idea how that part works. Full ramp up PB, switch to a single file bears shot WHILE the DOT is still working on your single target?
Edited by GunnersDream#1109 on 7/10/2013 12:53 PM PDT
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gunner if all 3 bears hit the same target (like huge ghome) then all 3 do the 236% damage for 708% Which is more than 575% fully charged Plague of Bats but less than 1002% COB.
Edited by blackjack#1375 on 7/10/2013 1:02 PM PDT
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Cast PB until full ramp up, then switch to bears? Wouldn't PB be doing more damage to a single target at that point? Wouldn't switching to bears just lower your damage?


He was saying a very limited situation, where you fully ramp PB to max, and the residual DoT + 3 bears can output higher DPS than CoB. But he didn't calculate the initial seconds on PB were discounted damage ramping up. It roughly balances out for the initial 2 seconds.

After CoB channels for slightly more than 3 secs, it beats every other skill in the WD class. The only time CoB is weaker than 3 Bears is when the player keeps moving every 1-3 seconds. If only 2 Bears hit, the initial cast of CoB is already higher in damage, without needing to compare with PB damage at all.

If a player prefers to use PB or Bears, I can respect that. If they say PB does higher damage than CoB, then I won't even bother to enter into a discussion, they just need to learn some maths.
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Could be that Gohm is more resistant to Fire than Poison.
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Hm, why I like plague of bats over CoB

1) I have more range thus I can avoid molten, arcane all that crap easier
2) it being a dot I can kite with it easier
3) I can rely on using it against multiple enemies without having to wait for them to come to me granted I play with other people quite often.
4) have to spend less time re-channeling it to get in the perfect position to hit certain enemies
5) I hate being limited to have a spell effect such a small radius.

again there are more benefits but this is just me.

I play in MP 10 abit and I'm not exactly tanky so might be why I like plague especially when I play in groups as it's safer.
Edited by Kalguren#1930 on 7/10/2013 1:50 PM PDT
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PB for compact maps (VOTA) CoB for open is how I run it.

PB does slower damage on Ghom only if you are not pairing it with bears. Paired with bears you can shred a single target much faster than CoB

Agree with the first part.

But how does one maintain mana for the second part?

PB ramps up, drop some bears, and then PB with honored guest, and then no more mana for bears, and possibly OOM with just Bats.


Forgot to mention 2 sec dog build is necessary to outdamage cob against ghom lol. Paulng is right, with just pb and zb dmg wont b higher than cob. but with 2 sec dog thats an additional 875% every 3 secs.

Before anyone hit me with that omg less than 10 secs ghom kill video, I need to mention that cob with snapshot buff (5gf, 5sh, slam dance) is still king over pb zb sac combo
Edited by B25HLG#1772 on 7/10/2013 5:28 PM PDT
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wile I will say my runs on average are quicker with cob, plague bats for me are much more fun and have a much more bear like playstyle to them with better mana management issues. I took me quite a while to get used to them but it has added more excitement to my solo runs for act 3,4. for me cob seems to do damage faster and clears a little faster, but having one spell that is both long range and heavy hiting is a great combo. and to tell you the truth, I kinda miss the kiting and positiong that was required to get the most out of our actives. but I also will admit that for the elites that are melee it does take longer to kill them and sometimes I just go back to cob for a bit. but for the fleeing eites its less frustrating for sure.
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