Diablo® III

Diablo 3 vs Path of Exile

Posts: 3,155
If this is an elaborate way of saying you'll believe it when you see it, okay. For me, all the signs point to ladders being implemented as they did the same thing for the mob density patch.

This is only highly plausible because they see the amount of usage incgamers is using with their own ladder for D3's characters and for people. But it's not an "official" ladder is the problem people are having, Bliz is planning to make a deal with inc just to get it or something. If all this is going to be an expansion then idk, I don't see why an expansion should be packed and filled with more wanted content than the original base unexpanded version.

http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/june-2013-kill-score-ladder-results

"Blizzard has talked about officially enabling ladders and rankings and seasons in the future of Diablo 3, but anyone can use Diablo3Ladders.com to get into them right now. To take part in the monthly Kill Score ladders just head to Diablo3ladders.com and submit your Battletag. It’s all automated from there, and you can join or create subgroups of just your friends or guildmates to track each other’s progress."
Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 7/8/2013 4:45 PM PDT
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By the way, you knocked me when you'd thought I hadn't played PoE for a while, yet I see that it's been ten months since you logged into D3, which means that you've missed both the Monster Power and the increased mob density patches. Some huge changes to gameplay that you haven't experienced, pilgrim.

P.S. I'd still like to take a look at your 0 health node PoE character. Is it possible to give me a link to the skill tree?


Cinematics =/= Story.

And yet i am up to date on D3 news but you aren't with PoE. I missed MP? Rather i am not bothered with such a useless stall tactic. Calling MP a "huge changes to gameplay" is a joke. Are you calling a difficulty setting inovation now? I didn't realise missing the chance of being forced to buy gold or flip items to repeat the same tasks is a must have experience but hey, less work for blizzard right?

Yes, its posible. You shouldn't relying on plagiarising other peoples' builds. Rather try to figure things out on your own. When you do, you will actually feel like you accomplished something.

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgYABYQFtQX5CIkLkQzyDkgPqxGWFfAWvx4aKlswcTB8MfoylDY9OdQ6Qj7PS3hNklFHVUtdaGHibWxte2_ycFJ293fUd9d_An8rhs6HGYfbjDaNv5MllQWa8Z2jnyegn6XLpuCnNKfUqn-quKvSsTC0xbVIvebAUcEzxKLGos3q0hnUI9aK1tHZxtwV3ajjhOd06xTz6vlW-WP8q_7I_5M=

My bad. I am forced to take some +hp because its in the way of some pasives that i need (+crit chance and +Str). Note i'm not bothered with the +hp near Critical Mass and Greater Impact. My next pasive is Deadly Draw obviously.

Diablo's confrontation with Imperious was horrible. Lots of bolster and bragging like watching children arguing in the playground. I cant believe an adult would be impressed with something so inane.

As for new content, you are already trying to convince me to buy an expansion that may or may not even be made... Sorry, i can think for my self

BTW, this is pointless if you dont defend your points. You argue that you enjoy D3 but you cant stand by this conviction and insist that you will be right in the future based on circumstantial evidence. Why bother replying everything with agree to disagree. We are not politicians and i have nothing to hide
Edited by TheCursed#6888 on 7/9/2013 1:57 AM PDT
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100 Night Elf Hunter
11845
Posts: 9,039
07/08/2013 11:48 PMPosted by TheCursed
Cinematics =/= Story.


Never said it was. I was responding to you when you said that D3 CGI wasn't as good as D2's or WC3's.

07/08/2013 11:48 PMPosted by TheCursed
And yet i am up to date on D3 news but you aren't with PoE


I'm playing PoE right now. You haven't touched D3 in ten months. Yet you claim you are up to date in gameplay, even after missing two major patches? Right. . .

07/08/2013 11:48 PMPosted by TheCursed
Calling MP a "huge changes to gameplay" is a joke. Are you calling a difficulty setting inovation now? I didn't realise missing the chance of being forced to buy gold or flip items to repeat the same tasks is a must have experience but hey, less work for blizzard right?


Two patches, dude. Monster Power and mob density. And you're able to tell how these two patches have affected gameplay without actually playing? How? Through osmosis?

By the way, I don't buy gold nor play the AHs. I play self-found with both my soft and hardcore characters. It's fun, as upgrades drop much more frequently for me than it would for an AH warrior.

07/08/2013 11:48 PMPosted by TheCursed
Yes, its posible. You shouldn't relying on plagiarising other peoples' builds. Rather try to figure things out on your own. When you do, you will actually feel like you accomplished something.


Dang, dude, can you be any more condescending? Where did that come from? I've been nothing but respectful with you.

How the heck do you "plagiarize" a build? Is researching and talking to other players to see what works and what doesn't plagiarism? In any event, my builds are my own and are based upon that research and my own experience playing all the classes since open beta, plus whatever skill gems I get. For instance, my default league ranger's build is based upon lightning/fork, but my Anarchy ranger is frenzy/split arrow because those are the gems that dropped for me. But the main thing for all my characters has been getting as much health as possible in order to survive Merciless.

07/08/2013 11:48 PMPosted by TheCursed
http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgYABYQFtQX5CIkLkQzyDkgPqxGWFfAWvx4aKlswcTB8MfoylDY9OdQ6Qj7PS3hNklFHVUtdaGHibWxte2_ycFJ293fUd9d_An8rhs6HGYfbjDaNv5MllQWa8Z2jnyegn6XLpuCnNKfUqn-quKvSsTC0xbVIvebAUcEzxKLGos3q0hnUI9aK1tHZxtwV3ajjhOd06xTz6vlW-WP8q_7I_5M=


Thanks. I'll check this out.

07/08/2013 11:48 PMPosted by TheCursed
Diablo's confrontation with Imperious was horrible. Lots of bolster and bragging like watching children arguing in the playground. I cant believe an adult would be impressed with something so inane.


Again with the condescension and insults. Anyway, are we talking about the same cut scene?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9wnu4FQO1A

"Even in the heart of heaven, angels can still feel fear." Spine-chilling.

As for new content, you are already trying to convince me to buy an expansion that may or may not even be made... Sorry, i can think for my self


No, I'm not trying to convince you to buy anything. This whole conversation started because I agreed that ladders and races would be an excellent addition to Diablo 3. No more, no less.

07/08/2013 11:48 PMPosted by TheCursed
BTW, this is pointless if you dont defend your points. You argue that you enjoy D3 but you cant stand by this conviction and insist that you will be right in the future based on circumstantial evidence. Why bother replying everything with agree to disagree. We are not politicians and i have nothing to hide


Uhm, what? You cherry pick what parts of my posts you decide to quote, then accuse me of not defending my points? Okay. . .
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07/09/2013 01:05 PMPosted by Ryaskybird
Cinematics =/= Story.


Never said it was. I was responding to you when you said that D3 CGI wasn't as good as D2's or WC3's.

And yet i am up to date on D3 news but you aren't with PoE


I'm playing PoE right now. You haven't touched D3 in ten months. Yet you claim you are up to date in gameplay, even after missing two major patches? Right. . .

Calling MP a "huge changes to gameplay" is a joke. Are you calling a difficulty setting inovation now? I didn't realise missing the chance of being forced to buy gold or flip items to repeat the same tasks is a must have experience but hey, less work for blizzard right?


Two patches, dude. Monster Power and mob density. And you're able to tell how these two patches have affected gameplay without actually playing? How? Through osmosis?

By the way, I don't buy gold nor play the AHs. I play self-found with both my soft and hardcore characters. It's fun, as upgrades drop much more frequently for me than it would for an AH warrior.

Yes, its posible. You shouldn't relying on plagiarising other peoples' builds. Rather try to figure things out on your own. When you do, you will actually feel like you accomplished something.


Dang, dude, can you be any more condescending? Where did that come from? I've been nothing but respectful with you.

How the heck do you "plagiarize" a build? Is researching and talking to other players to see what works and what doesn't plagiarism? In any event, my builds are my own and are based upon that research and my own experience playing all the classes since open beta, plus whatever skill gems I get. For instance, my default league ranger's build is based upon lightning/fork, but my Anarchy ranger is frenzy/split arrow because those are the gems that dropped for me. But the main thing for all my characters has been getting as much health as possible in order to survive Merciless.

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgYABYQFtQX5CIkLkQzyDkgPqxGWFfAWvx4aKlswcTB8MfoylDY9OdQ6Qj7PS3hNklFHVUtdaGHibWxte2_ycFJ293fUd9d_An8rhs6HGYfbjDaNv5MllQWa8Z2jnyegn6XLpuCnNKfUqn-quKvSsTC0xbVIvebAUcEzxKLGos3q0hnUI9aK1tHZxtwV3ajjhOd06xTz6vlW-WP8q_7I_5M=


Thanks. I'll check this out.

Diablo's confrontation with Imperious was horrible. Lots of bolster and bragging like watching children arguing in the playground. I cant believe an adult would be impressed with something so inane.


Again with the condescension and insults. Anyway, are we talking about the same cut scene?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9wnu4FQO1A

"Even in the heart of heaven, angels can still feel fear." Spine-chilling.

As for new content, you are already trying to convince me to buy an expansion that may or may not even be made... Sorry, i can think for my self


No, I'm not trying to convince you to buy anything. This whole conversation started because I agreed that ladders and races would be an excellent addition to Diablo 3. No more, no less.

07/08/2013 11:48 PMPosted by TheCursed
BTW, this is pointless if you dont defend your points. You argue that you enjoy D3 but you cant stand by this conviction and insist that you will be right in the future based on circumstantial evidence. Why bother replying everything with agree to disagree. We are not politicians and i have nothing to hide


Uhm, what? You cherry pick what parts of my posts you decide to quote, then accuse me of not defending my points? Okay. . .


Took time off my busy schedule to write a long reply to everything and pressed submit but the stupid site decided to not post anything. One disappointment after another.

Whatever i will skip
1. no, you were the one who started being disrespectful.
2. Mp and density == insult to mature gamers.
3. Cgi complements story, but isnt a subsitute for it. The detail of Cgi (cutscenes) is the only thing blizzard did better than other companies but no, D2 and WoW are still of better quality because they had more depth.

07/09/2013 01:05 PMPosted by Ryaskybird
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9wnu4FQO1A


Yes, that bad. No depth, No emotion, Bad voice acting. Overall a letdown.

Even in the heart of heaven, angels can still feel fear." Spine-chilling.


Because he is the lord of terror? Is that all it takes to impress you? Cheesy one-liners? So what if diablo is not scary and imperious did not show fear... all it takes is a cheap line?

4. You: ladder > why i dont like PoE > story > you never played recently > stop disrespecting me...

I didnt even care about PoE till you bring it up.

5.
And you're able to tell how these two patches have affected gameplay without actually playing? How? Through osmosis?


This comment reveals the depths of your ignorance, you deserve to be condescended because of how you act.

6. You to everyone: expansion will have all you want ____ = buy it. < Pathetic.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
11845
Posts: 9,039
07/09/2013 09:19 PMPosted by TheCursed
1. no, you were the one who started being disrespectful.


I went back and read all my posts in this thread and couldn't find where I name-called or "spoke" in a demeaning manner. However, I could've missed something, so show me?

07/09/2013 09:19 PMPosted by TheCursed
2. Mp and density == insult to mature gamers.


At 55 years old, I'm plenty mature, yet I don't find MP or mob density (or the game itself) an insult. Besides, again, you haven't played either patch, so how could you know how insulting it is?

3. Cgi complements story, but isnt a subsitute for it. The detail of Cgi (cutscenes) is the only thing blizzard did better than other companies but no, D2 and WoW are still of better quality because they had more depth.


Once more, I never said CGI or cinematics were a substitute for a story. I just responded to you saying that D2 and WC3 were better than D3's. And I disagree that D3 has less depth. I think that the cinematics have plenty of depth: Tyrael proclaiming that Imperius couldn't judge him as he was justice; Leah's frightening vision of Areat; and as I posted before, Diablo and Imperius confrontation at the Crystal Gates.

07/09/2013 09:19 PMPosted by TheCursed
Yes, that bad. No depth, No emotion, Bad voice acting. Overall a letdown.


As I stated above, I think the cinematics have plenty of depth, great acting, emotion. I know I find them satisfying to watch. You don't, however. That's cool. People have different opinions. Though at this point I think you would dislike anything about Diablo 3 just because it is Diablo 3.

4. You: ladder > why i dont like PoE > story > you never played recently > stop disrespecting me...I didnt even care about PoE till you bring it up.


The thread is called Diablo 3 vs. Path of Exile, so why wouldn't I talk about PoE? Plus I was responding to a post about ladders, so again, why wouldn't I talk about ladders and races?

Also, I've stated several times in this thread that I am currently playing, at this present time, as in right now, Path of Exile. Yet you seem to skip over that.

5. And you're able to tell how these two patches have affected gameplay without actually playing? How? Through osmosis?

This comment reveals the depths of your ignorance, you deserve to be condescended because of how you act.


Instead of answering my question, you choose to you slam me with another insult. This makes me think that you don't have an answer.

6. You to everyone: expansion will have all you want ____ = buy it. < Pathetic.


What I actually said about the expansion:

07/05/2013 12:51 PMPosted by Ryaskybird
Hopefully races, ladders and leagues are something Blizz can add to the expansion.


Hopefully we'll see even more fine tuning when this goes to public testing, whether in the PTR or expansion beta. I think it'll most likely be implemented in the expansion as there will have to be massive additions to the game in terms of separate servers and whatever else is needed for ladders and races.


Nowhere in there did I say that the expansion will have everything anybody would want and you should buy it. Nowhere.

But at this point I think you're just making stuff up to bolster your arguments. Or you're trolling. Maybe even both. So I'm done here, especially since you're flinging more name-calling and demeaning comments. I've said what I wanted to say: that ladders and races would be an excellent addition to Diablo 3.
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That's the most ridiculous skill tree I ever saw in my life. Really pointless to have an atlas with so much empty space.
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1.

By the way, you knocked me when you'd thought I hadn't played PoE for a while, yet I see that it's been ten months since you logged into D3, which means that you've missed both the Monster Power and the increased mob density patches. Some huge changes to gameplay that you haven't experienced, pilgrim.


2. Do 55 year olds go around calling people "dude" when they are angry where you are from? How sad.

I repeat my self. MP and density arent the reason i stop playing and wont be the reason i start. It's just a difficulty adjustment. Is this the best argument you can offer, your opinion is not valid till you play as much as me? Then you are no different from a middle school fanboy.

3. Basically if something has depth you wont be able to summarise it in one sentence. If if was profound as you claim, we would be able to discuss the characters mental and emotional state, and the weight and repercussions of what transpired and its effects on a larger scale. I wont bother expanding further on this topic to you.

Now i dislike D3 because its D3? Try arguing your point instead. Unlike you i wont sink to your level and claim you like D3 because its D3 because im mature. Yeah, i'm looking down on you now.

4. I was illustrating that you purposely lead the conversation away from ladder because you done see it.

You can repeat that you play PoE as much as you like but you dont seem to grasp how it works.

5. Answer? To sarcasm? Ok, yeah, i can perform osmosis... stupid.

Mp lets you adjust monster strength and drops while density changes the density of Act 4. Its not brain surgery. I can list out 20 pros and cons, as well as reactions for separate market groups for both patches. Did i say osmosis? i meant i can read, do research, and compile data objectively.

Kudos to you for being able to check when i last played.

Just like i made up that i didn't need hp nodes for PoE? You have blatantly promoted the expansion here and in your past posts (remember my research and data?) and used it to justify D3's current inadequacies.

I believe that conflict is essential for growth. Thus by subjecting my viewpoints through as much discourse as possible, i might identify any flaw i might be unaware of and learn from the experience. Call me whatever you want, i have nothing to hide. In this instance however, i find you mentally un-stimulating especially for a so called adult gamer which i admit vexes me.

----------------------------

Main topic: Why should it be ok for ladder be in the expansion? it should have been in the launch, as mentioned by KradisZ. Can you give me a reason why we have to wait for ladder? And will that be before or after they implement arena PvP?
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ut the skill tree for POE is definitely not for me and is the #1 reason why I have no interest in playing it. It screams "Shallow".


Can you explain this because it looks like a map of the Milky Way...

I assume it's because most of it is useless and everyone goes for + health or something, I haven't dug into this game much.

Personally I'm put off by the graphics and sounds still, but I see they have been improving.

However, when I look at a high level character I just see a mash of AOE attacks with multicolored buffs all over them. PBAOE being too prevalent is one of the reasons I don't like D3...is there a real ranged game? Traps? Pets? What's really different?

I like the potion system and the itemization does seem a lot better in the <5 minutes I've spent on it so far but what's really going to be interesting there in terms of character builds.

It does have the darker theme which is appealing but the writing is reams and reams of boring exposition that I started clicking past in a hurry.
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Posts: 3,155
However, when I look at a high level character I just see a mash of AOE attacks with multicolored buffs all over them. PBAOE being too prevalent is one of the reasons I don't like D3...is there a real ranged game? Traps? Pets? What's really different?

takes time to learn them, unless you go guide searching then i guess you'll just be spoonfed the build.

here's some examples i've created in the past
ranger - 6 atks per second, explosive arrows, stacking damage based on how many arrows i can stack into 1 guy in a short amount of time with mana leech.

duelist - went all evasion & armor stacking and didnt give a crap about hp, and with blind for single targets or the armor shell that explodes i 4got what its called

bear traps are fking op but single target.

i think i had one of the best staves in the game for a fire witch build too, it was liek a ilvl 51 searing touch unique. unique items in that game cater towards really niche builds and give a different gameplay style too.

In terms of the skill tree I don't find it very shallow or very indepth, only idiots think it's shallow, and obnoxious fools think its as deep as ocean floor levels.

it's just a SKILL TREE.... if you read a single node it should make sense. zzzz, it's there for PLANNING and character growth. it's nowhere near being a skill forest.
Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 7/11/2013 2:20 PM PDT
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I'll side with RyaskyBird on most of his points.

I think we're grasping a little if we're trying to cite the voice-acting as something POE has over D3. Voice-acting, and presentation overall in POE, is pretty rough. The most appealing thing to me about POE is the layer beneath: underlying mechanics, which have an old-school RPG feel about them. The min-max stat-manipulating, the skill tree, the 'crunchiness' if you will. I like that sort of stuff.

However the layer on top of it - the combat, physics, and infrastructure, isn't very tight or responsive. A bit rough when it comes to interface, hit-boxes, net code, etc. The next layer on top of that, is even weaker: the generic environments and opponents, bland, flat models for gear, the attempts of 'realistic' looking character models that unfortunately fall into the 'uncanny valley' of wooden unattractiveness that reminds me of old CD-ROM adventure games, that used pre-rendered models. And finally, IMHO, the lack of a compelling story.

In D3 whenever I found one of my companions had something new to say, I was interested in it. In POE, I could hardly wait for any NPC to stop talking. Every side-quest and conversation was an unrelated tack-on, delivered flatly by someone you though had never done voice acting...a 'friend of a friend of a dev', perhaps?

Not that D3 is some Oscar or Pulitzer Prize winner to be sure. But to say POE has a more compelling story is a stretch.

To question the maturity of any gamer here for not 'hating' D3's story is...an unfounded cheapshot.

On a related note, I've found is that POE fans sometimes decry D3 graphics as a 'cartoon' or 'for kids'. That's an injustice, IMHO. Hyperbole. D3 has a stylized, slightly exaggerated, idealized, high-fantasy art-style. Character models are not meant to be photo-realistic, and in doing so they avoid the uncanny valley. D3 looks fantastic in every way. I'd say the art style is along the lines of modern comic-books, graphic novels, and modern game-box cover-art (whether that be a computer/video game, board game, or pen and paper game), and it doesn't deviate far from the work that established fantasy illustrators and painters exhibit. Does it deviate from D2? Yes. Unacceptably so? Not to me.

The biggest faults with D3 lies in some underlying mechanics of the AH and a bit of...'over streamlining', I guess. Their 'carrot system' is broken, and though I understand the desire to reduce redundancy and crunchiness in game design, I think they discarded some charm with it.

The gist I'm getting is that POE fans are seeking to be known as 'true gamers' or 'purists', or 'hardcore', and 'mature', who like 'darker' games. And in doing so, seek to portray D3 fans as the opposite of all those attributes. i.e - Can't handle 'hard' games. 'Immature and likes cartoons'. 'Only a child would like this story'. Or the biggest insult - 'Casual'. Seriously, a lot of pen**-waving. Maturity? We're playing video games here, people.

A little background: I'm a 41-year old client-server software developer, who once considered a career in graphic design. Starting off playing games with Pong, Atari 2600, and Colecovision. Started computer gaming with TRS-80's, owned a few Amigas and many desktop PC's and laptops, and loved old-school CRPGS and Roguelike games. Owned many consoles and handhelds, from all manufacturers. At some ridiculous moment I owned a Gameboy, Atari Lynx, Sega Game Gear, Neo-Geo Pocket, and a PSP at once, because for some reason I needed to have 5 handheld game devices. Skipped school to go to arcades to compete on the high-score billboard, and didn't date much because I was too busy playing Dungeons & Dragons. Has a shelf at home that sags under the weight of boardgames/wargames/Euro strategy games, as I'm fascinated with game theory. Was a paid subscriber to over a dozen MMO's and beta-tested some. I'm no spring chicken.

On a side note I also run marathons and have a black sash in Kung-fu. Not that it matters in this conversation much but I like to mention these things because I'm A) Narcissistic and B) it shows i don't mind 'grinding or hard work'. ;)
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Posts: 3,155
The gist I'm getting is that POE fans are seeking to be known as 'true gamers' or 'purists', or 'hardcore', and 'mature', who like 'darker' games. And in doing so, seek to portray D3 fans as the opposite of all those attributes. i.e - Can't handle 'hard' games. 'Immature and likes cartoons'. 'Only a child would like this story'. Or the biggest insult - 'Casual'. Seriously, a lot of pen**-waving. Maturity? We're playing video games here, people.

it's really true that D3 is catered towards a more "everyone" approach, in doing so your game is not so niche anymore nor targeted towards any audience.

Casual - Relaxed and unconcerned.

Hardcore - intensely loyal;

Know why PoE players are seeking themselves to be "true gamers" because it resembles more of what D3 Should've been in terms of D2. It's pretty blatantly obvious.

D3 is very cartoony, if you've played Diablo 2 it's kinda hard to say D3 isn't.

Here's an example of what people expected D3 to be "like" but is FAR from it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zPZ_5m8RLY0#at=15

Do take note of: THE ATMOSPHERE for one.

In D3 whenever I found one of my companions had something new to say, I was interested in it. In POE, I could hardly wait for any NPC to stop talking. Every side-quest and conversation was an unrelated tack-on, delivered flatly by someone you though had never done voice acting...

highly subjective, but at least in PoE i have the choice to not listen to them, in D3 i'm forced to listen to them, I foudn the templar utterly annoying and the enchantress some dumb ditz. the scoundrel at least had some kick to him.

after playing both for equivalent amounts of hours (200 and 200 for both) I found d3 extremely annoying at the time because there was no option to turn off the f***ing dialogue. idk if there is one now but i wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't.

07/12/2013 01:44 PMPosted by DigitalHero
And finally, IMHO, the lack of a compelling story.

that's funny because i didn't find any story compelling in the diablo series. d3 only slightly more due to its predecessors, you're judging PoE based on it having no background but trying to give lore all in 1 go. I certainly didn't find Azmodan telling me all about his elaborate plans compelling. greatest tactician my !@#, my grandpa could outsmart azmodan in a game of mahjong.

the story in d3 is like a children's tale, it's nothing smart or classy. Diablo is like a troll talking down to you at the end with stupid dialogue boxes popping up. ooh the terror, he's more of a pest than the lord of terror.

07/12/2013 01:44 PMPosted by DigitalHero
We're playing video games here, people.

so? some people play games so intensely that they make 250k a year from doing so. that to me is indeed a fine line between extreme hardcore and casual and the like.

07/12/2013 01:44 PMPosted by DigitalHero
Character models are not meant to be photo-realistic, and in doing so they avoid the uncanny valley.


sure but they shouldn't be so jagged where they look like PS2 graphics either in this day and age. Not even specular or normal bump mapping on characters? Have you even given thought how many players on screen at MOST at any given time?....
I mean Dota2 models have more polygons than D3 characters which is pretty sad. hahah

this.
http://www.ancientavenger.com/images/diablo_3_character_selection_4_classes.jpg

vs.
any of these

http://img-cache.cdn.gaiaonline.com/301949adc6db0a0df0f6bc496c8d8ffc/http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z218/_-_HBZ_-_/heroes_kalok_wp_03_1920x1200.jpg

http://www.playdota.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50678&stc=1&d=1317519334

http://www.acgart.com/var/albums/47-DOTA2-Heroes-HD-pictures-after-resetting-models/47%20DOTA2%20Heroes%20HD%20pictures%20after%20resetting%20models%20(10).jpg?m=1315995863

^ EVEN THE CHARACTER PORTRAIT is more detailed, than your D3's char's polygonal face.

having so many other games under the belt to compare with, and most of these are FREE games that provide GREATER graphics in terms of detail and most other things against a 59.99$ coming out of a triple A company is pretty questionable. Questionable in that either their standards are extremely low, or I got suckered for 59,99 from a once beloved company for the first time and it's never happening again.

not only is your characcter in d3's lips glued together and never move, I'm quite certain they make 0 expressions as well.

back on topic, PoE itself has 0 budgeting from outside sources and was funded mostly by themselves the creators. D3 has WoW spoonfeeding blizzard with cash and that is what they put out. PoE i can at least cut some slack but even then their characters can dance foolishly and do other things among just mindless killing.

D3's development time was also 10 years regardless of what was scrapped and redone I don't care, they had 10 years, old ideas to use and improve that WORKED that brought this franchise its success, and decided to disregard it,

PoE has had 6 years from the ground up.
The difference is day and night.
PoE has the increasing potential as every day goes by and D3 is having decreasing potential as the day goes by.
Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 7/12/2013 7:52 PM PDT
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I think we're grasping a little if we're trying to cite the voice-acting as something POE has over D3. Voice-acting, and presentation overall in POE, is pretty rough. The most appealing thing to me about POE is the layer beneath: underlying mechanics, which have an old-school RPG feel about them. The min-max stat-manipulating, the skill tree, the 'crunchiness' if you will. I like that sort of stuff.

However the layer on top of it - the combat, physics, and infrastructure, isn't very tight or responsive. A bit rough when it comes to interface, hit-boxes, net code, etc. The next layer on top of that, is even weaker: the generic environments and opponents, bland, flat models for gear, the attempts of 'realistic' looking character models that unfortunately fall into the 'uncanny valley' of wooden unattractiveness that reminds me of old CD-ROM adventure games, that used pre-rendered models. And finally, IMHO, the lack of a compelling story.

In D3 whenever I found one of my companions had something new to say, I was interested in it. In POE, I could hardly wait for any NPC to stop talking. Every side-quest and conversation was an unrelated tack-on, delivered flatly by someone you though had never done voice acting...a 'friend of a friend of a dev', perhaps?

Not that D3 is some Oscar or Pulitzer Prize winner to be sure. But to say POE has a more compelling story is a stretch.


Voice Acting: And how is voice acting for D3? For PoE i actually was impressed by some of them (namely the player characters, Lady Dhalia, Bestel, Nessa, Fairgraves, Silk, Grigor...) that i googled info on the voice actors. Remember when you first killed Merviel? Of course not all the content is as well done but i noticed that GGG actually patches the story (content).

Story: I already mentioned not all parts of D3 story is bad, just everything from the middle of act 2 onwards. I also commended the side story for the scoundrel and templar. The detail for the cutscenes are also good as per Blizzard games although the post act 2 ones lack substance. As far as voice acting, Shen was the only engaging one. The writers should have focused more on Leah but they didnt which didnt help when we were supposed to care about her fate. Tyreal sounded more pathetic and whiny instead of contemplative and respected. Dialogue for player characters were one dimensional as well in D3. Overall due to the low quality of story for the later portion of the game was the result in my poor opinion of it. Did i mention the ending was really bad? Whoever designed the fight and ending should be shot.

Gameplay: Well yeah. Blizzard has a lot of programers with a huge experience, unlimited budget and a very stretched development period. Since you do some programming as well, you should realise the importance (advantage) of the perks i mentioned especially in developing a new product intended for a global market. GGG didn't do half bad considering.

Art: Its subjective, and you dont wanna start arguing art with me unless you wanna go doing research on art history, appreciation, evolution, and pop culture. Let's just leave it at personal preference. Does the style feel right with you? If you say "yes" then it's good. It's not always a matter how many pixels you can see. Take for instance realism in the 1850s.... or the Final Fantasy movie versus Pixar movies... see what happens when you talk about art. ;)
Edited by TheCursed#6888 on 7/12/2013 7:36 PM PDT
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The gist I'm getting is that POE fans are seeking to be known as 'true gamers' or 'purists', or 'hardcore', and 'mature', who like 'darker' games. And in doing so, seek to portray D3 fans as the opposite of all those attributes. i.e - Can't handle 'hard' games. 'Immature and likes cartoons'. 'Only a child would like this story'. Or the biggest insult - 'Casual'. Seriously, a lot of pen**-waving. Maturity? We're playing video games here, people.


Don't lump everyone together.

However you cant deny people did voice these issues to Blizzard during launch and got snubbed by the company (because they didn't have competition then) Lets not forget Jay Willson's less that stellar public attitude.

Are you saying computer games can't be deep? They can't have deep and contemplative writing? Ever heard of Baldur's Gate 2? Portal 2? Borderlands 2? Arkham ___? I can cite a lot more games throughout the ages that proves how close minded you are. When you design a game, you first decide who you want to market it to. Blizard choosed to market D3 to the same people that play WoW for obvious reasons. End of F story.

All Anime = cartoon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman:_The_Dark_Knight_Returns_(film) is a cartoon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandman_(Vertigo) is a comic (a visual novel is still a comic)

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PS. yeah, you didn't have to post about your personal info. You should let what you say (write) do the introduction for you. Not that it matters what other people think. Feel free to disagree with my views about the game but with new points.

PS2. Sometimes we are more strict towards Blizzard but its because we care and know they can do better. They sold out, and they should know it. They used to actually listen. Now they are so out of touch.

PS3. Oh and D3 story felt condescending. Like if i were to watch Gi Joe or Power Rangers now, (or whatever is on nowadays). A plot-hole appears and instead of explaining it... Boom! Action! or Shinny Effects! ... /rolleyes

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@KradisZ.~ Lol. Sometimes it feels like Azzy and big D are the ones giving me the mission. Can you imagine that (diablo with a yellow question mark on its head)? Your entire line of quest is literally from the enemy boss and the last one is help them commit suicide.

Or the invasion of heaven was because Demons always lost the poker games with Angels.
Edited by TheCursed#6888 on 7/12/2013 7:53 PM PDT
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@KradisZ.~ Lol. Sometimes it feels like Azzy and big D are the ones giving me the mission. Can you imagine that (diablo with a yellow question mark on its head)? Your entire line of quest is literally from the enemy boss and the last one is help them commit suicide.

Or the invasion of heaven was because Demons always lost the poker games with Angels.

i have a ton of problems with D3's story that I could probably write a book about it, those are just the top two most ridiculous things that come to mind when i read someone claiming D3's story is compelling -_-, it's full of inconsistencies,

i'd rather become the lord of terror in Diablo 3, that would've been a good end and a revisit to much lik the Diablo 2 series where one of the heroes befell into Diablo's terror. Not where some mother uses her daughter to transform her into diablo when she's already a diablo-human hybrid, i mean does that mean there were 2 DIABLOS then?. like wtf.
I GUESS that would make sense considering i killed his shadow and then diablo himself.

don't even get me started on nephalem or zoltun kulle.
Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 7/12/2013 8:07 PM PDT
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i'd rather become the lord of terror in Diablo 3, that would've been a good end and a revisit to much lik the Diablo 2 series where one of the heroes befell into Diablo's terror. Not where some mother uses her daughter to transform her into diablo when she's already a diablo-human hybrid, i mean does that mean there were 2 DIABLOS then?. like wtf.
I GUESS that would make sense considering i killed his shadow and then diablo himself.


Or rather a simple twist in the ending (remember how the one listening to the story was revealed to be Baal in D2... or if you had played Hellgate, the ending was you were tricked by that disguised demon). Small things that keep it interesting.

Everyone knows Diablo has a female form, Doesn't take 2 acts for people to figure it out. Blizzard should have anticipated it and used it to their advantage. Its like they don't care. For example in Bioshock 1, i knew i will be betrayed by Atlas.. but seeing that room with the photos explaining your origin, then confronting Andrew Ryan and being forced to beat him to death with the golf stick... "Would you kindly..."... sick. I was in shock for a bit after that.

Another example of what good writing and voice acting can do is Handsome Jack in BL2. He is evil, but part of me respects him and considers him a worthy foe. I still cant tell if he truly cares about Angel or not because despite what angel says about him, he swore to personally avenge her after her death. He was also not as cowardly as Angel said and did personally appear to kill Roland and capture Lilith instead of sending robots.

HJ: What was that last element.... oh, Now i remember... EXPLOSION!
BOOM!
M: NOooooo! Bloodwing!
HJ: Thats what happens when you !@#$ with me, kid.

(^ not exact dialogue, i'm not a machine)

and this http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Butt_Stallion

Ending = you dropped Diablo from a high place and he-she disintegrated. Under normal conditions wouldn't he-she just reform in hell as normal demons do? What was the point of the 3 soulstones and the black soulstone? You mean all we had to do was drop Diablo? Nice troll, Blizzard.
Edited by TheCursed#6888 on 7/12/2013 8:52 PM PDT
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@DigitalHero.

Oh, and "casual" is just my way of oversimplifying a niche. Its not intended as an insult to the players themselves but the design decisions.

Basicly during the conception and testing phase of a product its important to determine the target market. For D3, a lot more of the decisions are for the casual and console market. These groups weren't Diablo players/fans. That is all.

Want to learn more about R&D?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niche_market

If you still think Ryaskybird is right, feel free to disprove me. Her arguments are based on conviction and faith, not actual substance.
Edited by TheCursed#6888 on 7/12/2013 10:53 PM PDT
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As far as I'm concerned, Path of Exile has a more compelling universe.

Indeed, there's so much Blizzard can do with Diablo, which seems to forever be bound to revolve around one-dimensional incarnations of Evil - including the titular villain - attempting to invade and corrupt the mortal world. It's kinda like DooM.

Path of Exile, however, is about a bunch of exiles discovering a mysterious lost continent and thus lacks the manichean aspect that has been plaguing Diablo from the very beginning, so the potential for stories is nearly infinite. Too bad, GGG has yet to effectively tap into such potential and could learn a thing or two from Diablo III there.
Edited by JohnnyZeWolf#1953 on 7/13/2013 6:14 PM PDT
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Diablo 3: rotten core; fresh crust.

PoE: fresh core; rotten crust.
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http://www.grimdawn.com/

You guys all need to take a serious look at Grim Dawn.

I made another post about it but I think it is going to win in all the categories. The Titan Quest guys are good.

I tried PoE myself but couldn't get past the clunky graphics and reams of boring writing either. It looks like a good theme but the execution is not there.
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I tried Titan Quest myself but couldn't get past the clunky graphics and reams of boring writing either. It looks like a good theme but the execution is not there. :)

So far, it looks like Grim Dawn is taking the same path as its spiritual predecessor, so if I were you, I would think twice before dissing Path of Exile with blatant viral marketing.
Edited by JohnnyZeWolf#1953 on 7/14/2013 1:59 PM PDT
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