Diablo® III

[GUIDE] ZDS - Zero DPS Support

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I've played around with fist of az in combo with sr sledge fist. Combined with some cs gear, stun bells and blinding flash for some fun stun combos. it's pretty spammable and great for groups. gj on the guide, vox.
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Video I run with vox :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAI2EOI0pj8&feature=youtu.be

8min 30sec weeping hollow full map clear

3 elites, 1 purple

Sorry for low quality and lagging video, that the best for my PC to handle

Vox is rock :D


Thanks for posting, Ansela! Not bad considering was random run (had no idea was being filmed!), with folks I've only run with 1-2 times and one pub gamer to fill 4th slot.

Not the most impressive clear speed, but great for that group :)

Nothing clears MP 10 trash faster than TR CS support + wormhole SNS wiz + high mobility dps imo.

Edit: Except maybe TR CS support + 3 fast barb. I've been in groups like that and they'd be pretty hard to beat.
Edited by Vox#1186 on 7/16/2013 8:18 PM PDT
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Added draft Boss-Buster Variant.
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Got a Azurewrath to replace the Shenlong.

Still lacking quite a bit of eHP(mostly resistance).

I will try later this week how good the 13.4% chill effect is.
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Why the two mantras? I'm guessing MoH for Guiding Light but why not use Cyclone Strike: Soothing Breeze for that?
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@ChaoticF
I haven't had time to actually try this build but I would assume because the pulling from far away rune helps a lot more with the crowd control.

EDIT: I think they also mentioned that only with that rune you can pull in mobs that are immune to pull in any other case.
Edited by Gungnir#1425 on 7/17/2013 11:15 AM PDT
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07/17/2013 09:09 AMPosted by ChaoticF
Why the two mantras? I'm guessing MoH for Guiding Light but why not use Cyclone Strike: Soothing Breeze for that?

He has answers to both questions in his original post.
He spams both mantras, using MoH to trigger guiding light every 15 secs, while also retaining the ability to keep it on during times of danger.
He uses Implosion bc it can pull gobs/yellows when used correctly, which is very useful.
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I picked up some crit chance Lacunis and pieced together the build with gear using other equipment I had laying around:

http://d3up.com/b/875279/biardker-speed

I need to get some radiant star amethysts for the chest to give me back 89k EHP and get my health pool back to where it needs to be, but it is definitely possible to set up the build for respectable DPS. I didn't really fiddle with the skills too much since I was just checking the basic survivability of the build with my existing gear. I can see where the mitigation stats come into play because I definitely felt squishier than I normally do, but it was fun! : )
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Hi, Treleth.

Your squishiness is probably coming from very low edps paired with lifesteal and lack of LOH. It isn't too hard or expensive to build a ZDS monk that just will not die on MP 10, ever.

The beautiful thing about ZDS is you gain all sorts of extra room for EHP/sustain affixes when you stop caring about avg dmg, dex, and CHD. Shifting main stat to vitality does crazy things to your EHP and drops the price of gear dramatically.

ZDS monk requires you to take the plunge into IAS/LOH for sustain.

In your linked build, it looks like you are trying to maintain some dps while using a stun build. The build in linked profile looks like the horrible, gimmicky stun-lock build with Serenity, SSS Pandemonium, and MOR: Transgression that has been floating around the internet for several weeks. It looks fun, but comes with poor dps, poor survivability (mostly vs ground affixes, which cannot be stun-mitigated), and hardly any group buffs. I need not go on.

While trying to stack dps in a 'ZDS' support build is tempting, and you pretty easily could get 150k pdps, I very strongly recommend against it. The edps multipliers for the builds posted in this guide are going to be just horrid. No sweeping winds, no combo strike, no bells.

Players seeking personal dps and support would be much better off using one of the popular DPS builds and just working in CS and GL. Most builds don't have to give up much at all to run those two and their party edps contribution is still respectable. What ZDS offers in exchange for dps is good mobility, more spirit regen, more buffs, more buff up-time, more Cyclone Strike, nice stun lock, and waaaay more survivability. Like, eats-five-MP10-exploding-molten-grotesques-same-time-for-breakfast survivability.

Hopefully I'll get time to test ZDS support monk vs. DPS monk vs. DPS support hybrid monk in a typical MP 10 party vs. Ghom sometime soon. Some data regarding relative effectiveness (party edps mostly) is sorely lacking in both my guide and the recent "i'm leaching" discussions in general. I will of course post here when I get some data.
Edited by Vox#1186 on 7/18/2013 12:10 AM PDT
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07/18/2013 12:06 AMPosted by Vox
What ZDS offers in exchange for dps is good mobility, more spirit regen, more buffs, more buff up-time, more Cyclone Strike, nice stun lock, and waaaay more survivability. Like, eats-five-MP10-exploding-molten-grotesques-same-time-for-breakfast survivability.


This I agree with. I haven't got around to test ZDS yet(still trying to snipe a Sledge Fist with OS).
You can run Overawe and Guiding light full time with DPS DW build. (I do it with 200K DPS) but I can't stun lock or do as much CS (also weak CS since I use Soothing Breeze rune for GL)

I want to try ZDS for the Stun, CW/EP and more CS (and better rune) and just something about having 3 + APS.
Basically ZDS can do almost 2 monk worth of buff by itself. Whenever I am in a group and I am the only monk, I wish I had a second monk to divide up the buffing.

If you are worried about players not taking you seriously(due to lack of DPS), just join another game :)
Or group up with posters in the forum. Most of them would be find with you trying new stuff.
Edited by Gungnir#1425 on 7/18/2013 6:40 AM PDT
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@Vox

Thanks for the detailed response! I agree with your assessment of the skills present in my linked profile. The skills weren't the focus during my testing, but I plan to use a friend as a guinea pig with both the skills and equipment, especially since he called the build as "useless" when I described it to him. : ) I definitely need to secure some LOH for that attack speed and some additional AR, as well.
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Added more deets to Boss-Buster variant.
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Tried this yesterday with very cheap Sledge Fist.

It's really fun to see everything stunned and pulled.

I am still missing a lot of resistance and LOH to tank efficiently.
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Did some testing today for ZDS Boss-Buster in 4-player coop setting. Super thanks to my friends that helped slaughter ghom over and over again for no reward!!! You know who you are :)

TLDR
ZDS Boss-Buster build (15.7m party edps) performed very similarly to hybrid DPS support (16.3m party edps).

METHODS

All runs were same 4-player coop party vs. MP 10 Ghom. No party members changed gear. No party members changed builds. Everyone was instructed to just play their best on every run. There was almost no variation in kill times within the two set-ups tested, suggesting that everyone did in fact do the same thing over and over again. The only thing that varied was the monk gear/build.

Party EDPS was calculated by timing each Ghom run from first attack until death, then by taking MP 10 Ghom total hps in 4 player coop (346,063,520) and dividing by the number of seconds to kill.

PARTY SPEC

I wanted typical a typical party, and I think that’s what I got.
Party consisted of me (monk), barb, wiz, wd. Everyone was mid- to high-end geared. Basic info about the party is below:

**Wizard-CM Freeze**
Party buffs provided:
20% IAS bubble (IAS bubble—near 100% uptime)
15% increased dmg taken (bone chill—near 100% uptime)
Unbuffed DPS: 333,085

**Witch Doctor-COB**
Party buffs provided:
20% IAS (BBV slam dance—near 50% uptime based on battle duration)
30% increased dmg taken (BBV slam dance—near 50% uptime based on battle duration)
20% increased dmg taken (paranoia--near 50% uptime based on battle duration)
Unbuffed DPS: 191,217

**Barbarian-HOTA/Frenzy/rend** (w killing spree, overpower, WOTB insanity)
Party buffs provided:
None
Unbuffed DPS: 285,000

**Monk set-up 1—quickening bells hybrid dps**
<<Build Link>>
Party buffs provided:
20% dmg (Guiding Light—100% uptime)
48% dmg taken (MOC: Overawe—~99% uptime)
Unbuffed DPS: 208,405
Total party unbuffed paper DPS: 1,017,707

**Monk set-up 2--ZDS Boss-buster**
<<Build link>>
Party buffs provided:
20% dmg (Guiding Light—100% uptime)
48% dmg taken (MOC: Overawe—~99% uptime)
15% dmg (Inner Sanctuary--~20% uptime)
12% dmg taken (Exploding Palm: The Flesh is Weak—~99% uptime)
10% dmg taken (Crippling Wave: Breaking Wave--~99% uptime)
Unbuffed DPS: 9,100
Total party unbuffed paper DPS: 818,402

RESULTS

The runs with the hybrid quickening/bell monk (68% max buff) were as follows:
22s
21s
21s
21s
21s
Mean = 21.2s
Ghom MP 10, 4-player hps =346,063,520
Party EDPS = 16,323,750

The runs with the ZDS Boss Buster monk (105% max buff) were as follows:
26s***see note
22s
22s
22s
22s
Mean = 22.8
Ghom MP 10, 4-player hps =346,063,520
Party EDPS = 15,178,224

***NOTE: The 26s run was the first recorded after a single warm-up run. Because it was so aberrant, and it was the first run recorded post-warm-up (seems 1 warm-up wasn’t enough!), I will exclude it.

When the 26s run is excluded, we end up with:
Mean runtime= 22s
Party EDPS = 15,730,160

Or 96.4% of what the hybrid support provided.

<<Note regarding individual EDPS>>
I didn’t ask any of my friends to run their build for personal EDPS or multipliers. But I did run my support hybrid to check his EDPS/multiplier.

Runs averaged 77s raw time. MP 10 Ghom has 138,425,408 hps solo. This translates to 1,797,733 unadjusted edps. Since I had 208,405 pds, this is an unadjusted edps multiplier of 8.63. NOTE: I was not wearing any hidden dps (bonus to elites, WKL, etc., EXCEPT for 1 item that provided 11% SW bonus—wish I hadn’t worn it in retrospect as just complicates things, but whatever).

I was most interested in what my personal contribution in the party I was running with was, including my Guiding Light buff, which doesn’t do anything while solo. To get the in-party equivalent edps I took my unadjusted edps and multiplied by 1.20 for Guiding Light 20% buff to get an in-party edps multiplier of 10.35. This does not count any buffs from other party members that I received.

It would be interesting to know what proportion of party edps the build provided. I need to account for other party buffs, then compare with total party edps to get at that. Not sure how they all add/multiply together, but if someone who knows more about this wants to try and figure it out, it would be interesting to know!

OTHER NOTES/CAVEATS

Spirit regen was insane. I had waaay more spirit than I usually do because of party IAS buffs. No problem spamming all buffs all the time in both builds.

Although ZDS had slightly lower party edps in this test, this will likely shift to favor ZDS when other party members do more edps compared to the hybrid support monk.

The more party buffs are provided by other party members, the more edps hybrid support will contribute over ZDS.

ZDS monk has a ton more survivability than hybrid DPS. Especially when it comes to spike damage.

ZDS provided it's usual defensive party perks (Resolve, Stuns, Crip Wave debuff to attack/movespeed) wheras hybrid DPS support did not bring any of these.

I may not have used the most effective ZDS hybrid build in terms of maximizing personal and party dps when comparing with ZDS.

ZDS ran exploding palm whereas hybrid DPS did not (but could--easier to fit into a bells build than a combo strike build).
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I ran into another ZDS/TR Taxi variant that has to swap to TR still interesting item layout.
http://s10.postimg.org/t1lr84nh3/endgamemonk3.png

Good for mp9 vota.
Edited by RulerEric#1854 on 7/24/2013 5:42 AM PDT
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Finally got a OS sledge fist.
It's like the worst possible OS sledge first (30% stun, 0.15 attack speed bonus, etc.)
But it is OS. Last time I tried in MP10, LOH was the problem hopefully slow 30% one is still okay for the build.
Edited by Gungnir#1425 on 7/26/2013 7:11 AM PDT
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Edit : Answered
Edited by EGGTART6#2596 on 7/27/2013 8:08 AM PDT
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EDIT: wrong thread.
Edited by Gungnir#1425 on 7/30/2013 7:37 AM PDT
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I ran into another ZDS/TR Taxi variant that has to swap to TR still interesting item layout.
http://s10.postimg.org/t1lr84nh3/endgamemonk3.png

Good for mp9 vota.


This is interesting. I've tried similar set-ups and wasn't terribly impressed with performance.

There are several things going on, but it looks like the main thing is passive regen and -19CS gear.

Without Guardian's Path's 35% regen multiplier, passive regen isn't very good. IAS/crit + quickening/rising tide is much better for the build generally. LOH, stun, and DS movespeed all scale with IAS.

The one thing the passive regen lets that character do is TR some. At 2+ APS and only ~6-7 passive regen (2 Soj, 2 Madstone, 2 shield + up to 3 more from passives) you are using quite a lot of spirit in transit with TR. I can see this working ok, but not nearly as effective as a 2H FF/TR who will move faster and have plenty of spirit to CS/buff when reach next pack.

The main issue I see with the build/gear is survivability. Although it packs a shield, LOH sustain is gonna be bad. Stun isn't gonna be very strong. LOH is lost on SOJ/shield, and probably Mara's. Can't see what passives are in use, but probably has to use STI or NDE to help with survival. Is using Serenity instead of a buff.

Anyway, that's my take ^_^
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Finally got a OS sledge fist.
It's like the worst possible OS sledge first (30% stun, 0.15 attack speed bonus, etc.)
But it is OS. Last time I tried in MP10, LOH was the problem hopefully slow 30% one is still okay for the build.


Should be ok. Pair with a 750+ LOH, OS, IAS dagger if you can find a cheapie. It brings a lot of LOH. BT pants with 400+ LOH could also help alleviate LOH deficiency.
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