Diablo® III

The Five Kingdoms: Barbarian Wing

For once, I'll say war cry might not be a bad idea. It'd definitely allow the wizard to drop lots of mitigation on gear.
Reply Quote
07/15/2013 11:06 AMPosted by zylog
Monks provide 48% overawe, 20% guiding light and 12% exploding palm.


Based on the wording of the tooltip I was under the impression Guiding Light was only on the Monk...not party wide...
Reply Quote
Well this sounds like fun:)
Reply Quote
Voodoo: Slam Dance is probably the single most powerful dps buff ever. That said, it's temporary and based off its cooldown. Hex however, can only affect 1 or 2 (not sure) at a time and not all ubers can be hexed (only kulle actually as far as I know).

Wiz buffs Bone chill and Slow time are up almost always which provide 15% and 20% bonus damage respectively for everyone.

Same for Monk. Overawe's 24% bonus is up all the time and it can be spammed periodically for the 48% bonus. With palm and guiding light, Monks are by far the best party members for barbs (and anyone else really) to have.

Warcry is a pretty good idea. It can save lots of gold in gearing and I know it helps CM wizzes a lot because they have a very high mitigation requirement.
Reply Quote
Monks provide 48% overawe, 20% guiding light and 12% exploding palm.


Based on the wording of the tooltip I was under the impression Guiding Light was only on the Monk...not party wide...


It affects both (and more i think) players affected by the heal but you must hit someone with the heal or no one gets the buff. Not even the monk.

It will be pretty tough if the monk is using infused with light to carry out the Nirvana build because Breath of Heaven is used very situationally and may not be able to heal anyone due to it's small aoe.

Although it might be remedied with a Cm wiz around since everything will be frozen but it brings up another problem. Spamming bells produce a lot of knockback which is bad for team synergy so the classic cookie cutter cyclone build may be better in the end.
Edited by Bugs#6778 on 7/15/2013 11:43 AM PDT
Reply Quote
- Diablo III (Hardcore)
Posts: 1,618
View profile
Too bad Acrimony quit. *cry*
Reply Quote
07/15/2013 11:40 AMPosted by Bugs
It affects both (and more i think) players affected by the heal but you must hit someone with the heal or no one gets the buff. Not even the monk.


I'm sorry, I was thinking of Blazing Wrath, which only buffs the Monk...my mistake. Guiding Light is pretty cut and dry.
Reply Quote
Alright get ready for a giant post guys....

I'm going to argue that for this challenge the party composition for us barbs is going to be:

Pure Support Monk
Pure Support CM Wiz
2 HotA/Rend Skorn Barbs

Support monk does not need any DPS whatsoever and will run something similar to:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#aXVfgk!afU!YYaZba
But for the uber set this setup should be used instead:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#adVfgk!afU!Ybacba
Depending on the gear of the party, dropping serenity-tranq for WotHF-fists of fury to proc nirvana on the non-uber encounters may be the best choice.

The monk should gear for max APS, LoH, CrC, bonus to elites (for ubers) and some health globe bonus. Their FoT is going to provide ~0% of the party DPS and is mainly to gain the spirit to be supporting through 20% guiding light, 48% overawe, 12% flesh is weak as well as 20% dmg reduction for the party (CS-implosion is GREAT for proccing this).

Specifically for ubers, a 10%+ bonus to elites sunkeeper will be required. EP scales off of non snapshotted bonus to elites and "enemies take X% more damage" skills. With the party composition I'm suggesting this will be 20% (base) * 1.40 (bonus to elites) * 1+(48% overawe, 12% flesh is weak, 20% time warp, 15% bone chill, 10% conflag) = 57.4% of HP in an explosion.

MP10 4 player Kulle has 345M HP, meaning the explosion will deal 198M damage to SB. SB has 517M HP which means 172M more than Kulle. If we manage to get a double HotA on the two, Kulles death should result in death of SB as well (that the monk should serenity to avoid the 10s death penalty when it would inevitably die from the reflect). The same is true for Rak Ghom.

For the farming portions the CS is vital to getting good DPS from the barbs. Barbs should be running lacerate which isn't the best range, but CS should pull the mobs close enough to Lacerate and HotA. Getting EPs off on the lower Hp mobs will also help take down the higher HP mobs.

For elite specific cases, the EPs and CSing become even more important since HotA has a pretty small hit box. If you can set it up so that the HotA barbs can hit 2 targets. The death of those two targets will deal 57*2 = 104% monster HP and kill the remaining mobs in a blue pack. Using this on yellow pack minions is a bit less effective, but still a good way to speed things up. With my current monk (check my profile) I know that I have enough spirit to be able to get the EPs off and overawe spam even on our super geared VotA farming runs where elites go down in ~5 sec.

Pure Support CM Wiz

The build would be something like this:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#VXYjgO!beg!YacaZZ

Which would provide 20% in time warp, 15% bone chill and 10% conflag (procced by sparkflint) damage to the party as well as gain better freeze with evoc and pinpoint. Since the DPS isn't that great going with crystal shell instead of shards is ideal.

The CM would gear with as much crit chance as possible while hitting 2.74 APS with decent LoH and ignoring crit dmg and avg dmg. We could get away with somewhat lower than normal LoH since the DPS of the CM is low enough that reflect won't be an issue. Also since we're dropping EB and SA the DPS will definitely be lower. Since we're dropping EB we can also save some gold by dropping down to 16 apoc instead of the normal 20 (I dunno if you can drop down to 10, would have to do some testing)

I know there has been some discussion about how CM wizzes provide pretty good DPS especially when combined with CS monks; however, in most of the time consuming situations that this challenge is involved in, there will be very few mobs on the map (ubers/bosses) in which cases CM damage doesn't scale nearly as well. In this case I would argue that having a CM with a very good freeze rate would be ideal. I mean we will be killing trash mobs for small periods of time, but I think 2 well built skorn barbs throwing out rends and HotAs with the +100% or more party buffs is more than enough to take them down fast.

In the above 2 cases we want to spend as little of the budget as possible. Since they're only in support roles they just need enough CM procs to freeze or spirit to cast spells and then EHP to survive. If we could get away with 500M or less on these guys we can really beef up the barbs with 1.5B each.

HotA Rend barbs:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#aZPcRQ!YZX!bZcbYZ
We all know and love this build. It be slow but the DPS is the best output for barbs in stationary fights.
With a good CS, positioning and CM freeze, we won't need a -5 HotA soj to maintain bezerker rage since hitting 2 targets shouldn't be a problem except for Belial, Azmo and Diablo encounters. Also, one of the barbs dropping OP-KS for impunity to help buff the group. For the Diablo encounter, both barbs should be swapping out OP-KS for groundstomp to help the CM maintain CC lock on phase 2 of the diablo fight if necessary. I'm not entirely sure about Belial and Azmo atm since you won't be able to maintain BR even with superstition.

So why not a WD?
A WD definitely provides very good sustained DPS, party buffs and would be great for ubers in a snapshotted situation; however, this challenge is much more than just ubers so they fall short in a few categories:
1. The bonus from BBV and paranoia (most bosses can't be hexed) stack additively with the bonuses from the monk and wizard. Since we have +125% dmg already, the +50% from these two skills (which aren't up all the time...) only result in a net 22.2% dmg increase.
2. Getting a non-snapshot WD to attain the EHP and LS to survive the reflect dmg bursts (since you need to have EHP equal to 10% of your single tick dmg to survive as well as being net positive on mit vs LS) of SB will be very hard to do on a budget. It's very easy to do with a snapshot WD, but a snapshot WD (by this I mean like 4-5 pieces of gearswapping) would do pretty horribly in any situation where it would have to move. Since we have to farm 2 zones, 2 mini dungeons and belial cant be frozen, WD sustained DPS is a little troublesome.
3. Unless we have someone with a plvl 100 WD alt lying around we're going to be losing a lot of paragon levels worth of DPS stats. That 300 str from a plvl 100 barb is gonna make the DPS output of our barbs closer to that of WDs.

How it would work in the specific challenges:
Ubers + 2 mini dungeons:
Party would wait in town while the monk uses DS to get around to the 2 dungeons. As soon as he engages the first pack the CM + Barbs jump in and destroy everything in that dungeon. Since it's a full clear of the dungeon afterwards they port back to town as the monk DSes towards the next dungeon. Barbs leave the game to reset WotB CD. Repeat for the next mini dungeon.

For ubers, CM needs to get a perfect freeze so that barbs can get double hammer to maintain BR bonus. For SB Kulle, the monk should be positioned the closest to SB so that when he initiates a grab, the monk gets picked up. While in the air the monk can still provide overawe, the EPs can still go off and he can still serenity the EP if needed. The SK Mag fight they should engage maghda to proc SK to TP.

Belial:
Just waltz through the citidel with the monk CSing the mobs and the barbs rending/hotaing them down. On the purple mob, CM freezes, monk CSes and Eps the fallen master like mobs to help take down the single target faster. Barbs get a rend off and position themselves to hota the purple and EPed mobs. On the blue deceiver pack a CS will allow the 2 barbs to hota down 2 of the 3 mobs. EPs on those 2 should kill the last mob. If the barbs have lost wrath for some reason they can leave the game to reset it for belial.

Belial phase 1 and 2 are pretty simple. Phase 3 it would just require dodging the big explosions. I personally don't think trying to get ridiculous EHP to tank the explosions is worth it. Barbs should have enough EHP to survive the fist attacks though. Running bloodthirst for 8%+ lifesteal would probably result in them being able to leech back a majority of their life between the attacks so they can just facetank that portion of the fight. During the explosions they can stand still and HotA. The first explosion to hit them the monk can serenity it, but then after they have to be more careful. Monk and wizard just need to get try to get their party buffs off. I'm not sure if the freeze debuff will work on belial, but it still helps in the citidel so it should remain.

Azmodan:
Core of arreat should be run just like in the citadel. If the barbs have lost wrath for some reason they can leave the game to reset it right before Azmo. Azmo itself will be a pretty simple encounter. Just focus on him and DPS him down....

Diablo:
Pretty much the same thing as Azmo. The only difference is that in phase 2, the barbs need to help CC lock shadow diablo so that he doesn't summon the clones.
Edited by Chazhang#1745 on 7/15/2013 1:14 PM PDT
Reply Quote
And Chazhang has spoken! And pretty spot on TBH. So does this mean you'll play ball Chaz? Be on the Barb Squad?
Reply Quote
That's some very in-depth theorycrafting. Fantastic post.

Should putting the wizard at 3 or even 3.33 APS be considered? It looks like the freezing at 2.74 has less than perfect since 1.06.

If the monk dies to RD after the two ubers are dead, I think it shouldn't add to the penalty and not matter.

I had no idea diablo could be cc'ed enough to not even summon the clones...
Reply Quote
07/15/2013 01:00 PMPosted by silverfire
Should putting the wizard at 3 or even 3.33 APS be considered? It looks like the freezing at 2.74 has less than perfect since 1.06.


Going for 3 APS is going to make the CM very glassy due to all the IAS pieces needed. It pretty much necessitates an IAS Chants as well. The number of ticks between 2.74 and 3 is ~10% more procs from the initial findings. Recent studies how shown that lower breakpoints may be better than originally though. Instead I would recommend going for a 8% bonus crit to energy twister chants. I picked one of these up for 11M to test it out. Normally without deep freeze a CM will be at 50-60% crit. The 8% on top of that is more than a 10% increase in CM procs. Getting a %CC to ET maras and skull grasp are a different story though since those things are pretty costly if you want to get crit on it in the first place.

There is the issue of the casting time costs, but I think that the bonus CM procs should offset it enough. I can't recall casting breakpoints off the top of my head.
Edited by Chazhang#1745 on 7/15/2013 1:17 PM PDT
Reply Quote
I think I agree with Death about dual-wield. (Who'd have thought the forums' two most vocal Skorn barbs would suggest it..?)

I think the damage output for dual wield with a spear has a solid chance of coming out ahead as well. Good Skorns are in a weird spot. High CD ~1350+ DPS ones are very pricey. I think the HotA damage of dual wield would win, the rend damage will be behind, but it shouldn't matter.

Hell, if you guys want to make things interesting you could even go one of each, though there's no practical purpose for that.
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,106
View profile
DEMON HUNTER CHECKING IN HERE

285k DPS 100% unbuffed ( no archery or steady aim or SS )
55 k health
400 all res
4850 armor
82 % damage reduction

ADD ME IF you want a DH in the mix

900+ hours on my MAIN DH
Edited by TheFootOfGod#1389 on 7/15/2013 2:02 PM PDT
Reply Quote
i can run pure cm wiz if need be.. i have some crazy cm sets... 3.35 APS w/ 1300 LOH etc @ 58cc etcccc

i mean when all is said and done.. i have sets ranging from ridiculous APS/support (still over 250k dps) to 400k+ dps sword setups.. im kinda known for my wizard work.. i would love to be a part of this.
Edited by lameboi#1117 on 7/15/2013 2:03 PM PDT
Reply Quote
DEMON HUNTER CHECKING IN HERE

285k DPS 100% unbuffed ( no archery or steady aim or SS )
55 k health
400 all res
4850 armor
82 % damage reduction

ADD ME IF you want a DH in the mix!


I believe you have to have a Barbarian with ~20k kills to be a fighter in this competition. Did I understand that correctly?
Reply Quote
DEMON HUNTER CHECKING IN HERE

285k DPS 100% unbuffed ( no archery or steady aim or SS )
55 k health
400 all res
4850 armor
82 % damage reduction

ADD ME IF you want a DH in the mix!


I believe you have to have a Barbarian with ~20k kills to be a fighter in this competition. Did I understand that correctly?


honestly, because i didn't grind on my barb only i can't be a part of this competition? meanwhile i've put more posts into helping wiz/wd and now im starting with barb all over again :P if you don't remember me from barb days i was doing diablo carries back pre nerf for people.. didnt get 10k elite kills overnight.. heck i had 8k e kills and then swapped to diff classes b4 paragon lvls.. oh well

dumb competition if thats a req, meanwhile someone who has put as many vids as i have (themiketips on youtube) for wiz/wd can't help our forum out in this comp.. meh. that req needs to go.
Reply Quote
We'll see what Morpheus has to say.

For the time being...you could just do MP0 VotA or something for a week or so and you'd probably hit the mark.
Reply Quote
Well lameboi definitely knows wizzies...

If you guys decide to have a WD I think Lightofeast has been playing his CoB WD a lot and is probably a good choice.
Reply Quote
na im not mindlessly grinding for a req that could easily be changed.

if it's not changed, it's simple, the competition is flawed.

it's not like im sitting here with 9k elite kills !@#$%ing
i have 45k or whatever and ive clearly put my time in on all 5 classes.
Edited by lameboi#1117 on 7/15/2013 3:05 PM PDT
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]