Diablo® III

The Five Kingdoms: Barbarian Wing

I think we have enough good candidates that we can have paragon 90+ in any necessary class. :)
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@nubtro

Lol I'll be interested to see how the team does snapshotting without a cm wiz for ubers. Quite a surprise u mentioned cm wiz been suboptimal for belial as the benefits of a cm outweighs by far in other aspects such as ubers and gear budgets.

A good 3 ias 45cc cm is good enough for single target and not to mention the cheap budget to build one as I mentioned earlier...
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@ silverfire and Barbs

I see that some of the other Classes are well advanced in their Team selection, and have players buying and testing out builds and combinations.

How are we all going guys?
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One portion of my suggestion to go DH as the 4th. I believe it´s better than a Barb in its own damage output, party damage buffs (barb has none) and comparable even in party damage reduction/utility without gimping its damage. The second part would be the gear choices which I don´t think should be released yet.

Posted in the DH forums.


UBERS
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#RVgkce!ecX!bZYccc
- alternations
1) Caltrops to make sure CtW is up or Aid Station over Guardian Turret because the ubers should be frozen almost all the time assuming CM wiz, the party life regen can´t hurt against Siege
2) Custom Engineering over Cull The Weak so that Grim Reaper lasts longer in case the battles are >30 seconds long (probably not worth it)

If you plan to get legacy Nat´s somehow and are able to keep the thing going without Night Stalker, change that passive to something else.

BOSSES
You can´t switch builds for ubers but you may do it before the bosses and because of Belial, I´d recommend the following one
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#RVgkce!eVX!cZYcbc

You´re experienced DHs so it should be clear what I just did. Death Toll because single targets and it´s free 1% LS to party while keeping the damage buff. The magic here happens when you lay the Guardian Turret with Numbing Traps. Congrats, you just made the party take 68% damage of what it took before.

Depending on whether Numbing Traps is enough mitigation, you go Aid Station to gain life regen. Note that I don´t think Smoke Screen is necessary with all this mitigation. It has a 2 sec cooldown and I think only Azmodan has one Knockback attack and you can´t predict it as far as I know (needs to be tested), not to mention he should be frozen most of the time.

The tests I made with zylog (thanks mate) to figure out if the damage reduction between Guardian Turret, Numbing Traps and Gloom is additive or multiplicative:

128 normal(490) crit base damage
83(319) gloom 0.65
87(333) bubble inside 0.85 * 0.80
102(392) outside 0.80
56(217) gloom inside 0.85 * 0.80 * 0.65
66(255) gloom outside 0.80 * 0.65
83 gloom torturous 0.65
66(255) gloom jagged 0.80 * 0.65
102(392) just jagged 0.80

All of them are multiplicative.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Numbing Traps is only triggered when you deal damage it seems and no Caltrops rune besides Jagged Spikes does that.


Note for people not familiar with DHs. Marked for Death you cast (30 sec duration) stacks with the Calamity Marked for Death you swap into from Manticore (snapshot 50% crit damage from and then gain 10% from Archery on the gear swap). That´s 24% more damage. Grim Reaper shared 12% damage against bosses could be abused with a fast Monk swap to a Sever on the finishing blow for some serious damage on the second uber, not to mention what Chaz suggested earlier.

I believe a DH is more useful than WD if it turns out we really need the damage mitigation against Belial. Zylog suggested Resolve on Monk with Threatening Shout on Barb but DH has like both without gimping its damage. If we go Warcry on 1 Barb and Threatening Shout/Ignore pain Mob Rule (the latter not lasting through the whole lightning strikes phase) on the second, where´s our supposed godly damage?

That is, only if double Insanity Quake doesn´t blow the bosses out of their room. Still waiting for someone to test it.
Edited by Nubtro#2147 on 7/18/2013 12:48 AM PDT
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I may have a solution for the wizard in the Belial fight. For ubers, the CM spec is really great for holding the two bosses together so we can AoE both, and also for the additive bonuses it provides via bone chill and time warp. For single bosses though, you don't get quite as many CM procs, and if you can't freeze you don't get any use of bone chill either.

What can we do? If we gear for a support role for our wizard, we'll have a few quality pieces with high crit chance and high mitigation. My idea was to get a few cheap pieces to transform this wizard into a sleet storm wizard, where if we abuse snapshotting mechanics we can get some decent results. Here's the video:

http://youtu.be/XomfSbV8AQ8

Phase 1 - mostly in CM gear, cheap depth diggers, cheap frostburns and a 15 mil mace. No snapshotting needed here, the trash dies very quickly

Phase 2 - I do a 2 piece swap vs little Belial, this gives me a lot more crit chance to take him down a bit faster. In a group situation, I would stop channeling SS a bit sooner to get my 5 stacks of arcane dynamo ready for phase 3.

Phase 3 - there's a delay as Belial gets set up which is perfect for snapshotting. Since this phase is the toughest and longest, I swap to low APS high base damage gear, then swap to high crit high EHP gear which allows me to facetank him.

To compare, here's Lameboi's SNS wizard facetanking Belial with what I assume is significantly better gear yet ultimately, lower effective DPS:

http://youtu.be/4GOUpFpZVM0
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You guys are awesome :)
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Ok so who do we have committed to this challenge?

Team Leader - Death (playing Barbarian?)
Fighter - Zylog (class?)
Fighter - Chazhang? (class?)
Fighter -

Some of the other class teams are ahead of us and already have teams picked and are testing stuff, etc. We need to get this thing going!
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We spent quite a bit of time last night debating the merits of witch doctors, but we dismissed demon hunters fairly early on. I see that the other teams are planning to use them. The demon hunter team is even planning on using two of them. Probably something we should think about. I don't see how a demon hunter is supposed to surpass a barb in its own damage output, though. I think the fights will be too long for double insanity quake to last the whole duration...but on the other hand it might last long enough.

I may have a solution for the wizard in the Belial fight. For ubers, the CM spec is really great for holding the two bosses together so we can AoE both, and also for the additive bonuses it provides via bone chill and time warp. For single bosses though, you don't get quite as many CM procs, and if you can't freeze you don't get any use of bone chill either.

What can we do? If we gear for a support role for our wizard, we'll have a few quality pieces with high crit chance and high mitigation. My idea was to get a few cheap pieces to transform this wizard into a sleet storm wizard, where if we abuse snapshotting mechanics we can get some decent results. Here's the video:

http://youtu.be/XomfSbV8AQ8

Phase 1 - mostly in CM gear, cheap depth diggers, cheap frostburns and a 15 mil mace. No snapshotting needed here, the trash dies very quickly

Phase 2 - I do a 2 piece swap vs little Belial, this gives me a lot more crit chance to take him down a bit faster. In a group situation, I would stop channeling SS a bit sooner to get my 5 stacks of arcane dynamo ready for phase 3.

Phase 3 - there's a delay as Belial gets set up which is perfect for snapshotting. Since this phase is the toughest and longest, I swap to low APS high base damage gear, then swap to high crit high EHP gear which allows me to facetank him.

To compare, here's Lameboi's SNS wizard facetanking Belial with what I assume is significantly better gear yet ultimately, lower effective DPS:

http://youtu.be/4GOUpFpZVM0

Very clean exhibition. Pretty funny that you didn't have a weapon equipped altogether in phase 2.

Such a heavy reliance on snapshotting for all classes besides barb makes me raise an eyebrow, but its the only way for them to realistically even the score.

Personally a part of me strongly wants there to be two barbs in our final composition because we are team barb. But I also fear that we'd lose to the other classes in damage output going that route.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 7/18/2013 9:49 AM PDT
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Let them use their sorcery and gimmicks to try and beat us, to quote our favorite barb, when asked by the sorceress if he knows any spells he so eloquently says "I don't even like magic, I just put up with yours" Pretty cut and dry if you ask me :P

In all seriousness though snapshotting is an interesting mechanic and one that can be extremely powerful given the right circumstances and therein lies the problem. Yes I'm aware WD's can snapshot with CoB however the amount of gear needed to be swapped to make it worthwhile is simple not worth it. When you take into consideration the terrible range of CoB and that it takes time to ramp up it's damage it makes it a needlessly complicated and very situational ability. Throw in the mix if the target moves out of range and the WD needs to reposition again and it quickly becomes an exercise in frustration.

DH snapshotting is the same all be it a little more manageable thanks to RF being able to be aimed and its ranged. However again the level of gear needed to swap to make it worthwhile is simply off putting and unless you have macros (and I don't feel like getting banned for using them) it's not practical either.

Take a look a VocaloidNyan and his video to see the amount of gear he swaps here:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9344564957

Yes he uses macros if you can't tell by the insanely fast item swapping.

I would hate to risk the competition on such a gimmicky and situational snapshotting mechanic. I would prefer to have 2 barbs that can easily and quickly adjust and adapt to any changes or if the monsters move. And HoTA barbs need no gear swapping, no time to ramp up damage and they aren't rendered useless if their target moves.

Team should be 2 DW HoTA barbs a SNS CM wiz and a cyclone monk with overawe.
Edited by Death#1408 on 7/18/2013 10:41 AM PDT
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i am offering my services as a premier sns wiz to you death ;)

you let me know how you want me to run, i have gear for all damage / control ranges / sustain / aps ranges (as high as 3.35 unbuffed).

if you guys don't need me, that's groovy too.

edit

i just realized it's a budget comp too

IF you want me to, i can purchase the set for your team, even though i may not be able to play for it. or at least assist you guys in creating a badass 1b set.

let me know ;)
Edited by lameboi#1117 on 7/18/2013 10:44 AM PDT
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Incorrect. No macros were used. It takes practice my friend.

Here are the steps which you can take if you want to be able to swap gears effectively :

1. Have a balanced Diet. Without proper nutrition, one cannot click at the correct speed.

2. Calmly perform some hand stretches before start playing Diablo 3 for 10 minutes.

3. Listen to Nyan music. The music is very important when trying to match your pace when switching 13 gear slots in 0.2 seconds, gives only 15.4 milliseconds for each gear piece.

4. Have a clear mind set. Throw all your real life issues away and just focus on Diablo 3. If you wish to do so, you may want to see some Yoga classes.

5. PRACTICE. You must practice at least 3-4 hours per day to get remotely the hang of it. After practice 3-4 hours per day since my ghom video, I was able to finally achieve optimal speeds.

If you wish for more tips about how to swap effectively, come see your local Nyan in game!


For this, I will not be using my 9000 irl dex mode since it is against the rules of the challenge and furthermore I will be recording if I am taking part.
Edited by VocaloidNyan#1582 on 7/18/2013 10:47 AM PDT
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Let them use their sorcery and gimmicks to try and beat us, to quote our favorite barb, when asked by the sorceress if he knows and spells he so eloquently says "I don't even like magic, I just put up with yours" Pretty cut and dry if you ask me :P


LOL..sure is. There's no doubt that barb is going to be by far the more versatile, handle the highest amount of situations without breaking sweat, and that too without any reliance on snapshotting or exploiting esoteric synergies.

Let's just give the other options some due diligence before dismissing them.

A double barb option with one of the barbs using earthquake and possibly even wrath:insanity might be a good route as well. Cooldowns in between uber fights would be concern though.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 7/18/2013 10:48 AM PDT
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i am offering my services as a premier sns wiz to you death ;)

you let me know how you want me to run, i have gear for all damage / control ranges / sustain / aps ranges (as high as 3.35 unbuffed).

if you guys don't need me, that's groovy too.

edit

i just realized it's a budget comp too

IF you want me to, i can purchase the set for your team, even though i may not be able to play for it. or at least assist you guys in creating a badass 1b set.

let me know ;)


I think you can contribute as one of our gearers per the rules. Nived seems to be on board to assist with the barb gearing.
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great ;) i'd prefer to help team barb than team wiz tbh :P put the smack down on void/xfactor keke
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07/18/2013 11:00 AMPosted by lameboi
great ;) i'd prefer to help team barb than team wiz tbh :P put the smack down on void/xfactor keke


Traitor!!!!
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I´m kind of disappointed about the approach around here when make fun of certain game mechanics that are difficult to research, theorycraft, optimize and pull off but I won´t submit my initial lengthy "angry" post because that would be childish.

Instead, here´s my usual plain mechanics stuff if an advanced try was discarded early on heh. Tested Earthquake because it gave me headaches the last time I tried.

It probably won´t surprise you that the tooltip is quite misleading...it feels like a lie to say it bluntly.

EARTHQUAKE
-> deals 4.167% (250%/60) weapon damage each frame for 450 frames (7.5 sec)
-> 1875% total weapon damage per cast
-> uses main hand weapon damage
-> damage doesn´t scale with aps
-> sequence:
1. "jump" from skill click until fury globe response (around 22 frames at 1.00 aps)
2. "quake activation" from fury globe response until the initial damage frame (27 frames)
3. "damage" beginning on frame 50 at 1.00 aps
-> the game rolls for a crit on the initial damage frame and all subsequent 29 frames until the next roll will be crits if the roll was succesful, otherwise you get 30 normal damage frames including the roll one
-> you get a total of 15 crit rolls that occur each 30 frames
-> on the same frame the game rolls a crit you´ll also gain Life on Hit * proc coefficient (0.167)

Test:
100-100 base weapon damage, 1477 strength, +173% crit damage
100% weapon damage normal hit = 100 * 15.77 = 1577
100% weapon damage critical hit = 1577 * 2.73 = 4305.21

"No Rune" Earthquake damage sequence:
monster health <-> no. of frames <-> sum of damage frames
95,808
95,629 1 <- initial damage tick
90,427 29 5381 = 179.36667 avg damage per frame = 4.166% of calced crit
85,046 30 5381 crits
83,074 30 1972 = 65.73333 avg damage per frame = 4.168% of calced normal
77,693 30 5381 crits
75,721 30 1972 normal
70,340 30 5381 crits
68,369 30 1971 = 65.7 avg damage per frame = 4.166% of calced normal
62,987 30 5382 = 179.4 avg damage per frame = 4.167% of calced crit
61,016 30 1971 normal
59,045 30 1971 normal
53,663 30 5382 crits
51,692 30 1971 normal
49,721 30 1971 normal
47,749 15 1982 normal
45,778 15 1981 normal

6/15 rolls were crits, which is 40% (my actual crit chance was 34.5%)

I´ll test the additional "65% weapon damage" effect most of the runes have when I feel like it ;)
Edited by Nubtro#2147 on 7/18/2013 1:25 PM PDT
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I don't think anyone is making fun of anything Nubtro. Death's sense of humor can be a bit brash at times but if he's calling anyone out, they'll know.

The concern he has about snapshotting is the uptime in the uber fights. The way I see it, sk/maghda will probably only give chunks of around 10-15 seconds apiece where they are stationary and the wd or dh can channel without being perturbed. SThe WD's winding up time is going to be around 1/3rd of that period. A DH would be able to hold it better, naturally, being at a range. Belial obviously is a fight where any build that revolves around snapshotting will excel. TBH I fear for the barb(s) more than any other class for it, because the barb is the only one that will strictly need gear that can both take the punishment and deal the damage necessary to outheal the damage. As much as hate to admit it, war cry and/or superstition/tough as nails will probably be a necessity in this budget range.

1875% weapon damage feels rather weak. That puts it at at a little over 200% of rend:lacerate, and unlike the former, crits are calculated per tick rather than per cast, making the gap even smaller...
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 7/18/2013 2:13 PM PDT
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Let them use their sorcery and gimmicks to try and beat us, to quote our favorite barb, when asked by the sorceress if he knows any spells he so eloquently says "I don't even like magic, I just put up with yours" Pretty cut and dry if you ask me :P

In all seriousness though snapshotting is an interesting mechanic and one that can be extremely powerful given the right circumstances and therein lies the problem. Yes I'm aware WD's can snapshot with CoB however the amount of gear needed to be swapped to make it worthwhile is simple not worth it. When you take into consideration the terrible range of CoB and that it takes time to ramp up it's damage it makes it a needlessly complicated and very situational ability. Throw in the mix if the target moves out of range and the WD needs to reposition again and it quickly becomes an exercise in frustration.

DH snapshotting is the same all be it a little more manageable thanks to RF being able to be aimed and its ranged. However again the level of gear needed to swap to make it worthwhile is simply off putting and unless you have macros (and I don't feel like getting banned for using them) it's not practical either.

Take a look a VocaloidNyan and his video to see the amount of gear he swaps here:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9344564957

Yes he uses macros if you can't tell by the insanely fast item swapping.

I would hate to risk the competition on such a gimmicky and situational snapshotting mechanic. I would prefer to have 2 barbs that can easily and quickly adjust and adapt to any changes or if the monsters move. And HoTA barbs need no gear swapping, no time to ramp up damage and they aren't rendered useless if their target moves.

Team should be 2 DW HoTA barbs a SNS CM wiz and a cyclone monk with overawe.


I second this.
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man this looks alot of fun
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RULE UPDATE

There has been a lot of debate as to the validity of Gear Swap Snap Shotting. The consensus of the 5 Class Representatives and the majority of the Communities is that it is not within the spirit of the challenge, which I applaud.

Gear swapping is thus not allowed during the runs. I ask that at the beginning of the run, players open their inventories and scan their items. After this point and until the run is complete, you inventories are to remain closed. Items can be changed between runs, but not within runs.

Thank you all for your stance, especially DiEoxidE and Trefynwyd who's teams stood to benefit the most.
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