Diablo® III

Loot 2.0, discovering its true potential.

Awesome post, it's sad that a random player cares and thinks about the game so much more than the dev team did.
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I put into my posts a note about the numbers (both mine and Monstrous') not being final and mainly for presenting the idea. I pointed out why some things won't work, why others would need to have a minimum value, or the pros/cons with the idea along with a possible solution from myself.

Monstrous' ideas aren't bad at all. They're honestly meant as a starting point - a gateway, if you will - for his ideas to expand and/or spawn other good ideas. That's the entire point of discussion threads like these.


Thanks Tias, you worded it perfectly.


Once again, I've got no beef with OP. Really enjoyed reading it with the nice layout. It's a great 'starting point' like I said and Tias mentioned. However, I'm objecting the ideas as it was clearly not well thought through; not only in terms of numbers but as well as the balance of community (HC, causal players, bot, DPS etc). The 'potential' (as mentioned in your thread's title) is there, but maybe we need to sail away from the suggestions as the core of the problem isn't being addressed drastically.
I won't fault your effort for trying, whereas too many of the replies are simply lazy and un-constructive. I don't want to start quoting silly comments but there's a large proportion of people actually saying "Implement this now Blizz" and stuff like that, that's kind of why I started my own thread/ suggestion. I appreciate that you have been friendly all along and acknowledged most replies, pretty sure a Blue has read it by now, hope they get some inspirations.
People can call me whatever they want, I am just trying to help the game as well, at the end of the day we don't have to agree on everything. So instead of calling me out maybe they can give some proper suggestions as well.
Edited by Chewbecca#3227 on 7/24/2013 8:43 AM PDT
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Once again, I've got no beef with OP. Really enjoyed reading it with the nice layout. It's a great 'starting point' like I said and Tias mentioned. However, I'm objecting the ideas as it was clearly not well thought through; not only in terms of numbers but as well as the balance of community (HC, causal players, DPS etc). The 'potential' (as mentioned in your thread's title) is there, but maybe we need to sail away from the suggestions as the core of the problem isn't being addressed drastically.
I won't fault your effort for trying, whereas too many of the replies are simply lazy and un-constructive. I don't want to start quoting silly comments but there's a large proportion of people actually saying "Implement this now Blizz" and stuff like that, that's kind of why I started my own thread/ suggestion. I appreciate that you have been friendly all along and acknowledged most replies, pretty sure a Blue has read it by now, hope they get some inspirations.
People can call me whatever they want, at the end of the day, I am also trying to help the game. Instead of calling me out maybe they can give some proper suggestions as well.


No worries I'm able to take constructive criticism quite well and I don't blame you for getting passionate in your responses, we're all here because we care about the future of Diablo. Even some of the worst ideas (at least my opinion) still have a lot of merit in way. It's collaborating that will take a good idea and make it into a great idea.
Edited by Monstrous#1404 on 7/24/2013 8:48 AM PDT
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07/24/2013 07:51 AMPosted by Monstrous
As an additional thought, maybe the only thing those NV stacks should have an effect on are bosses themselves? Something you build up towards a boss and then lose right after you kill them greatly upping their chances to drop legendary items? Kill elites (MF still has an effect) to gain stacks (which only have an effect on bosses). Logging out keeps your stacks. People with little time to play can still build up towards the drops, and people with lots of time still try to get as many stacks as possible before a boss. Someone else has mentioned a concept like this and it was pretty fascinating.


Funny because it was myself who suggested that.

My main idea with that was to make the player build expectations again. I don't know about you guys, but when I play D3 I NEVER get my hopes up for something. I'm NEVER expecting something to drop, because it's supposed to drop anywhere, any time. It's the "awesome item waiting for you right around the corner" philosophy, which is cool to some extent, but not as it is right now (full casino mode).

I kill elites never expecting anything, I kill bosses never expecting anything, I run through thousands of trash mobs without any expectations, because I'm supposed to expect a drop every mob I kill. It's simply impossible to keep expectations high all the time, even if the itemization gets better with future patches/xpacks.

I feel that D3 is lacking tension. It is lacking landmarks, where you know you'll be rewarded for doing something. D2 allowed players to farm bosses. They could build up their hopes and expect something.

My suggestion on the boss fights was the following :
Basically NV stacks give two bonuses :
- The bonuses we have today : 15% MF/GF per stack, maximum of 5 stacks for 75% bonus MF/GF
- The new bonus : each NV stack gives a 1.5% chance for a boss to drop a legendary item, added to the already existing chance of a legendary drop (probably something like 0.01 or something like this). Maximum of 20 stacks for 30% chance of a legendary drop from a boss

This system would reward players for playing the game, and with 5 stacks the player has a 7.5 chance which is not bad, but doing longer runs have a higher chance of rewarding the player. Also, this is not changed by MP, so it benefits everyone (except MP gives MF, which ofcourse influences the drop chance). MF is very good for quality loot when not fighting bosses, and LF (legendary find) is good for bosses.

I do agree that there MUST be incentive to kill bosses because they are fun, and most of all they can create expectations. That's, IMO, the most lacking point of D3 : theplayer NEVER has high expectations for something awesome to happen. That's mostly due to the "awesome loot right around the corner" philosophy applied to the game today, vs the more predictable system we had in D2.

I mean, it was really awesome to get your hopes up for a drop, instead of mindlessly roaming around without any expectations because awesome stuff is supposed to come from every mob, but it rarely comes by. D3 lacks the thrilling, exciting moments.
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07/24/2013 09:18 AMPosted by Mist3rHyde
As an additional thought, maybe the only thing those NV stacks should have an effect on are bosses themselves? Something you build up towards a boss and then lose right after you kill them greatly upping their chances to drop legendary items? Kill elites (MF still has an effect) to gain stacks (which only have an effect on bosses). Logging out keeps your stacks. People with little time to play can still build up towards the drops, and people with lots of time still try to get as many stacks as possible before a boss. Someone else has mentioned a concept like this and it was pretty fascinating.


Funny because it was myself who suggested that.

My main idea with that was to make the player build expectations again. I don't know about you guys, but when I play D3 I NEVER get my hopes up for something. I'm NEVER expecting something to drop, because it's supposed to drop anywhere, any time. It's the "awesome item waiting for you right around the corner" philosophy, which is cool to some extent, but not as it is right now (full casino mode).

I kill elites never expecting anything, I kill bosses never expecting anything, I run through thousands of trash mobs without any expectations, because I'm supposed to expect a drop every mob I kill. It's simply impossible to keep expectations high all the time, even if the itemization gets better with future patches/xpacks.

I feel that D3 is lacking tension. It is lacking landmarks, where you know you'll be rewarded for doing something. D2 allowed players to farm bosses. They could build up their hopes and expect something.

My suggestion on the boss fights was the following :
Basically NV stacks give two bonuses :
- The bonuses we have today : 15% MF/GF per stack, maximum of 5 stacks for 75% bonus MF/GF
- The new bonus : each NV stack gives a 1.5% chance for a boss to drop a legendary item, added to the already existing chance of a legendary drop (probably something like 0.01 or something like this). Maximum of 20 stacks for 30% chance of a legendary drop from a boss

This system would reward players for playing the game, and with 5 stacks the player has a 7.5 chance which is not bad, but doing longer runs have a higher chance of rewarding the player. Also, this is not changed by MP, so it benefits everyone (except MP gives MF, which ofcourse influences the drop chance). MF is very good for quality loot when not fighting bosses, and LF (legendary find) is good for bosses.

I do agree that there MUST be incentive to kill bosses because they are fun, and most of all they can create expectations. That's, IMO, the most lacking point of D3 : theplayer NEVER has high expectations for something awesome to happen. That's mostly due to the "awesome loot right around the corner" philosophy applied to the game today, vs the more predictable system we had in D2.

I mean, it was really awesome to get your hopes up for a drop, instead of mindlessly roaming around without any expectations because awesome stuff is supposed to come from every mob, but it rarely comes by. D3 lacks the thrilling, exciting moments.


Ah thanks! Couldn't remember where I read that, it was very interesting.
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Good read and I think you have solid suggestions for future development.

Quick note: Girdle of Giants (wield not weild)

picky, but I am an editor.
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Good read and I think you have solid suggestions for future development.

Quick note: Girdle of Giants (wield not weild)

picky, but I am an editor.


Oh god lol, I never noticed that at all. I actually do a lot of editing in my job as well... Shhhh don't tell my boss about this spelling error, she'd freak ;)
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07/24/2013 09:20 AMPosted by Monstrous
Ah thanks! Couldn't remember where I read that, it was very interesting.


I'm glad to know that at least someone feels like me haha

Here's another idea I had : legendary and rare potions that would give temporary "shrine-like" effects. I feel this could open up some really cool gameplay diversity. Leg potions would drop like leg items drop today, and rare potions could work on a Demonic essence drop mechanic ?
There are sooo many possibilities, I really hope Blizzard dare do innovative and not too simplistic stuff ^^

Grats on your topic again, you made some really cool suggestions !
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Love the ideas great post.

Love the rewards for finding legendaries and others where you are rewarded for playing the game not the AH.
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07/24/2013 09:31 AMPosted by Mist3rHyde
Ah thanks! Couldn't remember where I read that, it was very interesting.


I'm glad to know that at least someone feels like me haha

Here's another idea I had : legendary and rare potions that would give temporary "shrine-like" effects. I feel this could open up some really cool gameplay diversity. Leg potions would drop like leg items drop today, and rare potions could work on a Demonic essence drop mechanic ?
There are sooo many possibilities, I really hope Blizzard dare do innovative and not too simplistic stuff ^^

Grats on your topic again, you made some really cool suggestions !


In my patch 1.0.9 post I posted the idea of the Mystic being able to craft potions similar to what you're suggesting. I think it would be quite interesting. If you take a look at the mockup I made of the new inventory tabs I even created the "Mystic" tab, the one with the eyeball. This is exactly where I thought the potions could live, otherwise they'd take up so much space in our already limited inventory. Potions would need to last much longer than shrines, it would be annoying to have to keep clicking on them every time it was beginning to run out. Finding interesting effects would be the hardest part, you'd want them to do something that wasn't really already found on gear.
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This game is going to be the people game made for the people... by the people.

I wonder if we'll all get cash return as unofficial developers lmfao

Congrats OP u still have made something: u proved that this game isn't dead; 22 pages of comments in 3 days in a players thread shows that people still have fate!
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Regarding the MF system, though I don't think we need any drastic changes atm, what do you guys think about losing all MF bonuses from paragon - now works kinda like kill streak, meaning the longer time u spend in combat the more mf u get, mf decreases slowly like barb's fury - NV still grants MF and still capped at 5.
No idea if something like that would work?

also if we lose the mf bonuses from plvls we need another cookie reward for reaching higher levels
Edited by Chewbecca#3227 on 7/24/2013 9:59 AM PDT
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Oh yea, first time i went through hell mode in act 1 with my javazon a friggin zod rune dropped from one of the mini bosses. was most epic diablo moment ever for me.
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So now that OP has all the design plans for the expansion, what will Blizz do now?
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Uhh..... why dont this guy work for blizz???!!!?!?! those are some great ideas and i would definitely go back to playing. i love diablo but, probably not going to get any expansions as it sits right now. with the ideas ive seen on his link i would buy and play again.
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also if we lose the mf bonuses from plvls we need another cookie reward for reaching higher levels


It's already been hinted at that Paragon levels will grant a type of customization. Character customization is a huge deal, especially when it comes to an ARPG. Paragon levels granting points to actually customize your character will change this I hope. The only problem issue I see them running into is, do they let people respec these at any point? If they did would it be very hard to do so? etting to level 100 paragon and messing up by putting one point in the wrong trait. Maybe they'd have the option to reset lets say the points in level groups 1-10, 11-20, 21-30, etc simply by re-leveling. It's hard to explain, I'll try to show:

1-10 (10 points) (5 trait options)
11-20 (10 points) (5 trait options)
21-30 (10 points) (5 trait options)
31-40 (10 points) (5 trait options)
41-50 (10 points) (5 trait options)
51-60 (10 points) (5 trait options)
61-70 (10 points) (5 trait options)
71-80 (10 points) (5 trait options)
81-90 (10 points) (5 trait options)
91-100 (10 points) (5 trait options)

Players could spend those 10 points in each group anyway they want among lets say 3 or so different traits per group. If you want to adjust them you'll have to reset that specific group and gain the required experience the same as before. It might make +exp items useful for even lvl 100 paragon levels at some point. It's not as harsh as messing up in D2, but it at least provides punishment for changing.
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07/24/2013 07:51 AMPosted by Monstrous
We'd still have to explore ways for these mats to not be just readily farmable (mostly for botting reasons). If the purple mobs that dropped them were spread out more and a lot more random similar to Treasure Goblins people could still go out searching for them within an act, but bots would have a little harder time tracking them down.


Well, the easy way to solve the bot problem would be to make these crafting materials from the Unique monsters BoA. That one is a no-brainer. Since we're also looking to remove items from the overall economy as well, ultimately crafting to improve an item by adding attributes will likely need to cause that item to become permanently BoA as well since obviously the game as a whole would become much worse (at least with the AH) if these neat upgraded items were able to be traded.

With this in mind, the Unique monsters can stay put so they're actually not as aggravating to find (they're already frustrating for many of them). Bots could farm them all they want to and it won't amount to a hill of beans for them since a) the crafting materials would be BoA and b) the resulting upgraded items would be BoA also, negating any reason for them to bother. All the while, this makes it so the player has to go out and find the items themselves and actually play the game instead of the AH.

As an additional idea, we wouldn't need to have each Unique monster have its own particular material drop. They could be categorized into things like Demon's Heart (found only on Demon class Uniques), and Jaw of the Lich (found only on Undead class Uniques) and so on. That would drastically reduce the number of materials so they aren't overwhelming, but still offer enough categories to accomodate many new additional affixes or effects to the crafting system. It would also reduce frustration in finding the material since getting "that one" Unique to spawn is usually...well let's just say that less than 1% probably have completed the A Unique Collection achievement. Some of the Uniques are just that annoying to find, especially since they spawn only in rarely seen instances in the first place.
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We'd still have to explore ways for these mats to not be just readily farmable (mostly for botting reasons). If the purple mobs that dropped them were spread out more and a lot more random similar to Treasure Goblins people could still go out searching for them within an act, but bots would have a little harder time tracking them down.


Well, the easy way to solve the bot problem would be to make these crafting materials from the Unique monsters BoA. That one is a no-brainer. Since we're also looking to remove items from the overall economy as well, ultimately crafting to improve an item by adding attributes will likely need to cause that item to become permanently BoA as well since obviously the game as a whole would become much worse (at least with the AH) if these neat upgraded items were able to be traded.

With this in mind, the Unique monsters can stay put so they're actually not as aggravating to find (they're already frustrating for many of them). Bots could farm them all they want to and it won't amount to a hill of beans for them since a) the crafting materials would be BoA and b) the resulting upgraded items would be BoA also, negating any reason for them to bother. All the while, this makes it so the player has to go out and find the items themselves and actually play the game instead of the AH.

As an additional idea, we wouldn't need to have each Unique monster have its own particular material drop. They could be categorized into things like Demon's Heart (found only on Demon class Uniques), and Jaw of the Lich (found only on Undead class Uniques) and so on. That would drastically reduce the number of materials so they aren't overwhelming, but still offer enough categories to accomodate many new additional affixes or effects to the crafting system. It would also reduce frustration in finding the material since getting "that one" Unique to spawn is usually...well let's just say that less than 1% probably have completed the A Unique Collection achievement. Some of the Uniques are just that annoying to find, especially since they spawn only in rarely seen instances in the first place.


Really good points here. Should the BOA crafting materials be used to craft BOA weapons and armor though? If the resulting item wasn't BOA then we'd have bots farming for crafting mats and instead just selling the actual completed items.

The one thing that really upsets me is how easy the legendary crafted weapons and armor are to make. The only hard part is getting your hands on the actual plans, after that you can literally craft thousands by just grabbing mats from the AH. I'd much rather see the crafting materials be the rare part of the crafting process.
Edited by Monstrous#1404 on 7/24/2013 11:21 AM PDT
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This would amazing. With that said, I think it's safe to say that anything could improve this game at this point. Also, the game needs to be much more open. I know as much as everyone hates JW. In one of his last interviews, before he was fired(?) from game director he said he wanted D3 to be in an open world. Honestly, that is what will save the game. No more tedious quests that you've done millions of times and no more time wasting cinematics because honestly, at this point, I would prefer that new Pepsi advertisement with Beyonce. Would be much more entertaining than, "I AM THE LORD OF TERROAARAR".
Edited by Chopu#1897 on 7/24/2013 11:33 AM PDT
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07/24/2013 11:20 AMPosted by Monstrous
The only hard part is getting your hands on the actual plans, after that you can literally craft thousands by just grabbing mats from the AH.


I've got all 5 classes to paragon lvls....

Have not found 1 leg plan :(
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