Diablo® III

Ruby or emerald marquise?

Posts: 732
For a CM wiz, which one is better in my wand? Marquise ruby or emerald
Reply Quote
d3up.com
Reply Quote
Ok this is a really good question sir. I will try to sum it up quickly. Like Jaetch said, the one giving the higher dps is better in theory but maybe not in practice. Ruby will raise your minimum damage by alot, giving you a shorter range of damage you can deal in 1 attack. Sometimes it can change your game play, for example in archon form you might move your laser away 1 second before half the time, meaning you will gain time. If you are running low MPs there is a bigger chance that this difference will be noticeable.

I probly said this for nothing since at the end I also went with the higher sheet dps...
Reply Quote
I have found that that the emerald out performs the ruby if you run deep freeze on your Frost nova. At base CC and no buffs the Ruby seems to out dps the Emerald. If you run it through D3up and are running deep freeze you can check it by ticking the box under abilities deep freeze. that will give you the actual damage while using DF with a emerald.
Edited by Gladiat0r#1696 on 7/22/2013 11:04 AM PDT
Reply Quote
I actually just made a spreadsheet that calculated the exact dps gain comparing the 2 last weekend.

D3up works too, but, you have to know how the ruby works for proper calculation ( I didn't see an input option to edit my gems, maybe I needed to subscribe for that). However, using the guest calculator:

For a marquise, 160 min and 320 max is used.

In most situations, at marquise level, the ruby is better.

If your base damage is already high, your crit dam is low, and your crit chance is high, the emerald will be better.

In my case, the ruby was 6k dps better. Even with nats combo, it remains better, but not as pronounced.

At the radiant level, emeralds are almost always better. The radiant ruby is 130/260, which is a substantial decrease.
Reply Quote
07/22/2013 12:18 PMPosted by Lammy
160 min and 320 max is used.

07/22/2013 12:18 PMPosted by Lammy
The radiant ruby is 130/260


?

Marquise Ruby is +160 min and +160 max
Radiant Star Ruby is +130 min and +130 max

Taking a Marq Ruby, a basic weapon with a socket will have its minimum damage increased by 160 and maximum increased by 160.

Using the same ruby, a weapon with a socket and also +36% damage will instead gain:

Min/max damage increase: 160 * 1.36 = 218

So both ends will increase by 218.

Take the sword in my profile, for example.

1253.7 DPS
610.5-1180.5 (in-game is rounded up)
1.4 APS
+50% damage

I socket it with a Marquise Ruby.

160 * 1.5 = 240

Min damage increase: 610.5 + 240 = 850.5
Max damage increase: 1180.5 + 240 = 1420.5

((850.5 + 1420.5) / 2) * 1.4 = 1589.7 DPS
Reply Quote
There's something glitchy with the information it shows on screen for weapons (tested with 1 hander).

Explain this:

1. Take off all your gear except your weapon.
2. Note what skills you have passively in effect (try to be in a game by yourself without a follower, no buffs, glass cannon, etc).
3. Read your crit and crit damage and int bonuses (will include your paragon bonus)

Can you make ANY sense of the DPS it shows on your screen? It's almost as if the weapon dps stat, gemmed or not, has no correlation with what it calculates on screen.

For example, if you have 1000 dps weapon, with no skill buffs, 1aps, 5% crit, 50% crit damage and 500 int.. you expect to see a value of about 5125 dps. But, that's not at all what your screen damage will calculate to.

In fact, with no weapon at all in hand, it calculates to some value like '15.38'.. where is THIS number from?
Edited by Lammy#1905 on 7/22/2013 1:08 PM PDT
Reply Quote
07/22/2013 01:07 PMPosted by Lammy
Can you make ANY sense of the DPS it shows on your screen? It's almost as if the weapon dps stat, gemmed or not, has no correlation with what it calculates on screen.


I have a dps spreadsheet I made ages ago and maintain that can replicate the on screen dps to within about 0.01 DPS, so it makes perfect sense to me how it works.

The forumula is

WeaponDPS*(1+int/100)*(1+CC*CD)*(1+IAS)

using your example we have 1000*(1+5)*(1+0.025)*1 = 6150.

Without a weapon is a bit different and I never found it worth trying to replicate, though I never really tried.

For example, with just my 1h, I have 580 Int, 8% CC with scoundrel, and 207% CD. Weapon speed is 1.4 and displayed dps is 10335.12. My weapon damage is 564-1056 with 40% weapon damage, or 1133.9 dps on the tooltip. I also have GC active for 15% bonus damage

1133.9*(1+580/100)*(1+.08*2.07)=1133.9*6.8*1.1656=8987.38.
8987.38*1.15 = 10335.49, which is pretty close to the value listed on my char sheet. The difference comes from the weapon dps displayed in the tooltip being rounded, whereas the in game calculator uses the exact weapon dps. In my spreadsheet I use the exact weapon dps also, which is why I get a better match, but otherwise it's pretty close.
Edited by Loroese#1415 on 7/22/2013 1:40 PM PDT
Reply Quote
07/22/2013 01:33 PMPosted by Loroese
Can you make ANY sense of the DPS it shows on your screen? It's almost as if the weapon dps stat, gemmed or not, has no correlation with what it calculates on screen.
Without a weapon is a bit different and I never found it worth trying to replicate, though I never really tried.

I can't really explain the last bit, but I'm assuming it's based off of your character's passive "white" damage or auto-attack. What the base is is unknown to me. If you take any level 1 barb, for instance, the DPS will always be 2.82 without any items (e.g. smacking with his bare fists).
Reply Quote

Without a weapon is a bit different and I never found it worth trying to replicate, though I never really tried.

I can't really explain the last bit, but I'm assuming it's based off of your character's passive "white" damage or auto-attack. What the base is is unknown to me. If you take any level 1 barb, for instance, the DPS will always be 2.82 without any items (e.g. smacking with his bare fists).


It might be that bare hands weapon damage is 2.5 average or 2.5 dps. If I use that number it works out for my wizard if I have no gear on.

EDIT: If I equip my OH the damage stays consistant with fist damage being like a weapon with 2.5-2.5 damage and 1 APS.
Edited by Loroese#1415 on 7/22/2013 1:47 PM PDT
Reply Quote
You are right Loroese, I had an error in my int calculation.

500 int should be 500% extra damage. So it should multiply by 600%.

It looks like there is some bare hand damage that goes into the formula when no weapon is being used.

Anyways, even with this slight difference in calculation, the Marquise rubies were still better for me by 6k dps. I also suspect this is generally true for anyone under 50% crit and already sporting 300+ crit damage.

The radiant star rubies, however, calculated to be about equal to the emeralds. Seems the extra level of marquise for rubies increments more than the emerald.
Edited by Lammy#1905 on 7/22/2013 3:27 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Hey Loroese, I found a link to your spreadsheet, but there's also one that doesn't require a download that I found to be perfectly accurate. Seems like D3up requires some manual tweaking to see what your dps is with buffs (which WILL affect which gem is better). I haven't verified whether d3up is always accurate, but this one is spot on:

www.d3rawr.com

However, the source for error I was originally getting is that % DMG bonus, elemental damage Bonus on chanto needs to be factored in. When you add it, the Weapon DPS goes down, and becomes accurate. If you enter the weapons stats exactly, the Weapon DPS should match what the hover-value is. Once a person has that right, they can factor in the other stats.

The weapon speed can be 1.4 with 0.23 for '+ attacks per second', or just 1.63, it works out to the same.

You do need to include all the buffs and gear bonuses you have in the Damage from Armor section. Ie, the bonus attack speed has to be manually added up from gear. The bonus elemental damage, as well as skills are not readable on your character info sheet summary.

Edit: To clarify, the stats you need to manually add up are:
- Attack Speed Bonus from armor (excludes weapon). Ie, Lacunis 9% + WH 9% +, etc..
- % Elemental Damage. Ie, Zuni boots = 8%
- % DMG Increased by Skills. Ie, Glass Cannon + 15%, Spark flint + 12%, Magic Wpn. +10% etc.


The rest can be read from the character info screen. So Pinpoint Barrier is already included here if you have it on.

It is accurate to .01 dps.

It is still indisputably clear that the Marquise Ruby was better for me, by 9k dps with my current gear. Even with Nat's 7 crit bonus, it remains 6k dps better with Ruby.
Edited by Lammy#1905 on 7/23/2013 10:25 AM PDT
Reply Quote
07/22/2013 06:01 PMPosted by Lammy
Hey Loroese, I found a link to your spreadsheet, but there's also one that doesn't require a download that I found to be perfectly accurate. Seems like D3up requires some manual tweaking to see what your dps is with buffs (which WILL affect which gem is better). I haven't verified whether d3up is always accurate, but this one is spot on:


Yeah, my spreadsheet isn't the only one around that calculates. I still use it because I wrote it so I know it works right, and I already have all my info entered into it. I also have a built in box to show Marq Em dps and Marq Ruby dps for quick reference to see which is better. In your case your CC is low and you're not using DF so it's not too surprising that ruby is better.

07/22/2013 03:11 PMPosted by Lammy
The radiant star rubies, however, calculated to be about equal to the emeralds. Seems the extra level of marquise for rubies increments more than the emerald.


That's very much the case. Emerald only gains 10% CD at Marq level, for a 10% stat increase. Ruby goes from 130 to 160, for a gain of 30 ave damage, which is 23% increase in average damage for the higher gem. Below Marq quality it's not nearly as close and emerald should win out for most wizards.
Reply Quote
great thread...discovered a ruby is better than my emerald with no buffs by 600 dps and with buffs by 2k dps...not worth changing for now :P
Reply Quote
Posts: 8,053
View profile
Hugs 4 u (>^^)>
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]