Diablo® III

The WD Challenge! ***Part 2: Gearing***

We have a team! I have had a number of people message me over the past couple of weeks. The team I have put together may not be the greatest group of D3 players to walk the face of the earth, but they are all extremely knowledgeable, experienced, and (most importantly) generally good people.

The builds will change depending on the challenge, but this is the basics on what we have so far. I don't think there will be any surprises here.

Monk (played by me)
- The monk will be a support player with reasonably low dps. I'll be aiming to spend about 200-300m of the budget on the monk. The primary role of the monk will be to keep all group buffs up - he/she won't be doing much damage. Gearing should be focused heavily on attack speed and ehp.

Wiz (played by Luffy - http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Luffy-1946/)
- This will also be a pretty standard freeze setup. The required breakpoints are 2.73 aps, 52% cc, and ~1200 loh, and I think given budget constraints we'll look to have ~100-130k dps.

Witch Doctors!
Reaper666 - http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/REAPER666-1553/
Vekcna - http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Vekcna-1183/hero/2821852
- These guys will be the heavy hitters of the group. Lot's of dps, with as little ehp as possible. Both will have similar builds will which revolve around buffing up and channeling bats. Most of the budget will go to gearing these two. Both will also use Skorn and SoJs.

In this thread we need to discuss gearing options for all 3 classes. Getting value out of our budget is paramount to making an effective team. If you have a monk, witch doctor, or wiz please provide input! I'm specifically looking for interesting legendary combos that usually aren't viable for farming, but that may be viable in this competition simply because they are so cheap on ah. Magefist (+20% dmg to fire skills), Maximus, and Sledge Fist are examples...

This is the realm of theorycrafters. Given the budget, just how much dps/ehp can we squeeze in?

Edit: Here is the list of Team Witch Doctor :)
Trefnwyd - http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Trefnwyd-6696/
Reaper666 - http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/REAPER666-1553/
Luffy - http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Luffy-1946/)
Vekcna - http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Vekcna-1183/hero/2821852
MikeHoncho - http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/MikeHoncho-1169/hero/1258293
Skitzflik - http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/skitzflik-1694/
Edited by Trefnwyd#6696 on 7/21/2013 11:25 PM PDT
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Couple of gearing suggestions i would like to make as well Tref.

When it comes to Gems in chests, pants or what ever's. Dont worry about INT or Dex gems. Just stack VIT. The character's gear's we will be playing with will most likely be "weaker" than our current "gg" gearsets. And a 10 seconds penalty PER DEATH could very well be the gamechanger. I am not saying just build Tanks with 15k damage (i.e check my male barb if you wanna giggle, he can solo anything in game, just takes a ALONG LONG time. Gnom = 10 hours. Belial = 14 hours)

But dont go "ballz to the wallz". Once we hit 4x 150k damage that is enough for mp10 ubers (Wiz @ 100k or so - freeze, croud control and survivability more important than pure damage - we will noty get that within the budget constraints)

Monk gearing : i would HIGHLY suggest fire monk. couple of reasons.
CHEST - Cindercoat. Double fire res, dex/vit + armor the rolls.
BOOTS : Firewalkers. With All res and Vit roll (or armor)
Inna's Hat + pants for 2pc - comes with crit as standard on hat. fire res and vit rolls on it. Fire res on pants..
eHP / survivability rare ring (+vit +cc +AR? +armor +life%?)
Litany (life % i would reccomend here)
Vile wards,
Tri gloves
lacuni's with lowish crit + res. damage + eHP.
Belt : either a good WH or a good eHP belt - depending on stats so far on monk
Think thats all slots.

The WD's : standard 4pc Zuni (hat, Chest, Ring + boots) - we know what to look for
SOJ + Litany
Skorn (high a life steal as possible and practicle)
WH
Vile's for shoulders
magefists w/ CC
rest of slots we know what we are looking for

Wiz
Attack speed Chants! - will reduce the damage a bit, but, means we dont need to stack attack speed on every slot so can free up some more eHP
cc storm crow (life on hit + fireball for conflag?)
Chants Offhand - again, damage doesnt matter, freezing does so no need for massive damage
WH
Inna's pants OR Blackthorns - depending on current IAS breakpoint we are sitting at. Inna's if need more IAS, BT's if are past 2.74aps breakpoint already - additional LoH is always a bonus
Tal's chest
9% IAS / high cc rings w/ LoH if possible
Same ammy (LoH if can get it) (ignore crit damage really. freezing is more important than DPS)
Lacuni's
Tasker and Theo gloves with high CC and eiother vit or all res

That is my thinking anyway.

Voice comm's will be 100% required. or at least ability to listen in so can hear the panic of "skelly king walking!" or "his big swinging attack!" etc
Edited by skitzflik#1694 on 7/21/2013 11:53 PM PDT
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07/21/2013 11:48 PMPosted by skitzflik
When it comes to Gems in chests, pants or what ever's. Dont worry about INT or Dex gems. Just stack VIT. The character's gear's we will be playing with will most likely be "weaker" than our current "gg" gearsets. And a 10 seconds penalty PER DEATH could very well be the gamechanger


Can't you just restart if someone dies? also, my impression is that vit on gear is always cheaper than primary stat, so if you have an amethyst in you can usually get by cheaper by looking for the same item with at least +50 vit and down to -50 prim stat (or 54/58/62 whatever gem quality you use) and swap to a get with primary stat. But for lower gems where the crafting cost is a smaller part, do you mean that this is not the case?
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No, i mean that most likely the characters will have less "base eHP" or whatever than our usual gearsets. We will not be able to take the hits that our "normal" gearsets can take and survive easily on mp10.

Restarting is for pussies. and personally i think shouldnt be allowed. Its a comp, not a "let me try this again for the 300th time and maybe we will luck out, and we go with that 1!" comp.
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i think there needs to be a lot of testing before going into too much with gearing...

we want to check out the bare minimum of what we need in terms of EHP, and how best to optimize our dps...

for example I don't know if we've settled on 2 wd's for sure... barb+wd, you might be able to drop some resists if the barb uses warcry - impunity. Barb could also use insanity against some of the bosses... depending on our party buffs/dps.. we maybe able to down some bosses within the insanity/bbv timeframes.

I think we should probably just pool some items together and test different setups with different levels of EHP + buffs to see what can survive well enough so we can fully optimize our budget.

For CM... can also check out if its possible to get some +skill bonus to energy twister to possible skimp on some CC gear. Also.. is perma freeze really needed? could we go with psuedo freeze but have a bit more group buffs/dps or survivability? I think with some practice between our WD team members, not having full perma freeze is possible, as long as we have good movement and teamwork.. which could allow for some interesting gearing options..

Also has it been decided that we aren't doing snapshotting?

Also for the WD's I don't think it HAS to be a lifesteal skorn... depending on the player/team we may be able to save a lot of money AND get more EHP/DPS if we go something like a 500int/200 vit skorn rather than a lifesteal one.. All of it has to be tested though... It could also vary from challenge to challenge...

We might want to start just picking out gear and budgeting some builds..

So other budget things to consider: reduce elite%/reduce melee%... blackthornes

also what plevels are everybody? maybe we should build around that... make sure we have p lvl 100s for our characters?
Edited by thegrave#1634 on 7/22/2013 4:23 AM PDT
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Again diving into territory I'm not particularly familiar with but I'm concerned too many unorthodox damage sources might manufacture a negative gearing relationship. ie. too many sources of +% fire skill or +% elite damage reducing the base damage all our multipliers work off.

I'm more than happy to be wrong and/or for you guys to have considered all possibilities but I feel more comfortable at least mentioning it. Happy to see the solid line up we've got going into this.
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07/22/2013 04:07 AMPosted by thegrave
Also has it been decided that we aren't doing snapshotting?


07/22/2013 04:07 AMPosted by thegrave
depending on the player/team we may be able to save a lot of money AND get more EHP/DPS if we go something like a 500int/200 vit skorn rather than a lifesteal one..


Snap shot cannot be avoided. Gear swap is not allowed.

If they go into battle (Ubers), they cannot change gear halfway. So they probably need LS Skorn (since SB pair requires lifesteal).
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snapshot cannot be avoided with channelling skills. isnt a way around it without using our skills and buffs. GEAR-SWAP snapshot is disallowed. buff-shotting for want of a better word is allowed, and un-avoidable for channelling.

yes, LS is essencial 100%

for ubers, LS is required for WD's. No getting around it

On flipside we did manage to get skelly king down in under 20 seconds total time during practice today,

builds have been 99% worked out for ubers already, no need to re-invent the wheel for WD builds (CoB, SH ,BBV, Horrify:FA, LL dongs, maybe MC) with JF BR and SV passives for 1 of the Docs is my personal pick. Wiz the Standard Cookie Cuttter CM/WW with slow time damage buff bubble. Im sure Tref will post his thoughts and findings on builds in due course + monk builds (i have easily least time played on Monk and understand the least, but im not a n00b in that area either)

yes all players are p100 or just about will be once the runs start from what i understand.
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Something to consider for your monk - at your desired budget (~300m), you wont be able to squeeze much DPS in there. That will translate into ineffectiveness of LS, so maybe LOH is worth a shot.

Try Blackthorne's Pants and Ammy combo. Here are some advantages: ~1k LOH, great ehp (+life, all around stats from pants, +100 vit set bonus), and both items should be dirt cheap as neither is popular. This in turn may enable you to run one (or even two) two non-LS weapons, which will give you respectable (~130k?) DPS. Sledge fists have spiked in price recently, and for the purposes of this challenge, are not worth it if your CM does his job well (and does not die)

You also have an interesting choice to make on the Wiz. On one hand, you can make a decent (ie hits 2.73, ~150k DPS, decent survivability) SNS wiz that will be able to provide good DPS. On the other hand, you can make a CM who runs group buffs and has smaller multiplier - ie dmg bubble and conflag. (keep in mind that Storm Crow's fire attack triggers conflagration).
So the choice would be between higher SNS multiplier and smoother runs (due to wiz's extra survivability).
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07/22/2013 07:05 AMPosted by Ragnar
This in turn may enable you to run one (or even two) two non-LS weapons, which will give you respectable (~130k?) DPS


Hmm.... I suppose 130k to 150k is very possible. I used to run a combo of single LS, LoH, and a bit of LpSS on helm. Not ideal against SB, but hey, just let the WDs tank, this Monk only needs to provide buffs

A possible weapon path is: MH = Dex/CHD/OS (dex helps with overall damage and dodge)
Offhand = high Dex/CHD/OS/LoH/LS, DPS doesn't matter, could even be a 700 DPS weapon. We just want the stats.

If there is enough life sustain, I say we let the offensive slots (amulet) focus on DPS. A good BT amulet is very expensive too, talking about 1B+. Inna's will be important for the 2-pc bonus as well as the IAS to generate spirit.

Don't gimp any of the 4 characters to the point where they are prone to dying. Roughly balanced builds with good buff stacking should still achieve good results.

Oh by the way, who is to stop any team from restarting their recorder if any player dies? The Teams will all be streaming live?
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The WD's : standard 4pc Zuni (hat, Chest, Ring + boots) - we know what to look for
SOJ + Litany
Skorn (high a life steal as possible and practicle)
WH
Vile's for shoulders
magefists w/ CC
rest of slots we know what we are looking for


Do we have an extra Ring Finger I'm not aware of????? (Zuni Pox, Litany, SoJ)????

:)
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The WD's : standard 4pc Zuni (hat, Chest, Ring + boots) - we know what to look for
SOJ + Litany
Skorn (high a life steal as possible and practicle)
WH
Vile's for shoulders
magefists w/ CC
rest of slots we know what we are looking for


Do we have an extra Ring Finger I'm not aware of????? (Zuni Pox, Litany, SoJ)????

:)


Was wondering if anybody was going to pickup on that :)

OK Pox is a given and will be on all of the time, for all of the fights.

For uber battles : Skelly Mag - Pox/SOJ
Gnom/Raka : SoJ/PoX
SB/ZK : LITANY/Pox

Why a litany i hear you say and not a SOJ again? - Yes our times will be a bit slower than what is THEORETICAL possible in this fight, but, the extra say 30% damage from a SoJ ups the mitigation requirements for SB reflect not to 1 shot us - even with Life Link Dogs. JF. Horrify:FA. This will lower the Doc's damage output a bit yes, but, SB should be "life neutral" or even positive LS possible from him in this setup :)

Comon guys. I surely cant be only person with gearing ideas!

@thegrave : the _only_ thing a barb brings to the table party wise is war cry honestly. To gear a barb up for similar damage output (HOTA/Rend or HOTA/WW) that we can do with a CoB doc, would just about blow the budget right away, on just the Barb. for 20% more all res only. Not worth it IMHO.
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Hey guys, there are some great suggestions here. Keep them coming! I'll address each post below, but first I'll just give a brief outline of the gearing I think we'll need. One rule which is critical to understand with gearing relates to gear swapping. The rules state that no gear can be swapped once a challenge begins. The challenges are ubers(+Warriors Rest and CotA), Belial, Azmodan(+Core), and Diablo. We can switch items between these challenges, but we can not switch during them. I would like to confirm that gear can't be swapped between uber fights, but at the moment I am working on the assumption that this is not allowed.

In terms of ehp, our greatest challenge lies with Belial. His poison-pool attack does more damage than any of the other fights we'll face. Nubtro was kind enough to test this, and found that the highest single hit was 674k. It's easy to predict when this is coming, so it's possible to work off a minimum base of 450k ehp assuming FA is in the skill slot. I think we should aim for about 500k ehp (on wd) with a litany, or lower with a soj.

In terms of dps, we need to avoid any attack speed on items for wds, other than for a WH and possibly pants. The group will add over 50% ias to the witch doctors, so maintaining low attack speed is important for mana management. Obviously wiz and monk will both need ias. For this very reason, with the added bonus of life steal, I think the primary weapon should probably be a Skorn. In terms of stats, it doesn't really matter what we get as long as it increases paper dps without increasing attack speed. Intel will not provide an additional bonus when buffed unless GF is active. So we need to determine where the best value lies. Critical chance is known to be an expensive stat, but in this contest it won't help any more than intel or cd. A 4 piece Zuni is a good base to start with. What stats are important for boss fights, but not important for farming? That second part is critical because it will mean it's cheap :)

Also, the wizard must be able to permafreeze. This is critical to the group setup. This will come at the cost of dps, but it's worth it!

We've been testing ubers for a few days now. Tbh most of the testing has focused on testing builds and stategies, but for the next week we'll be testing different gear setups. If you have gear which costs ~50m and you can spare it for a few days, we'd love to borrow it for testing!

******************************************************************************

@Skitz: Thx for the very thorough post with a ton of information! The gear for the monk looks very cheap for high ehp. I have already bought gear for a monk for testing. The build cost about 10m gold and only does 30k damage, but it is able to tank through all the battles. As we continue testing on ubers I will try replacing some of these items with more dps and less ehp. Once I've found a good balance I'll post here. I really like the firewalkers/cinder combo! The wd setup is great too, but we need to start talking about exactly which stat we want on these pieces. For example, it is possible to get a lot of ehp on the Zuni chest for almost nothing if you also get a low intel roll. I would suggest looking for high ehp (armor, high vit, physical resist, life%, etc) and low intel. It's also possible to stack massive ehp on pants (+70AR, +300armor, +200vit) for less than 10m with a low intel roll. For the wiz I definitely think a BT combo with a SC is our best bet. Attack speed can go on the chantotodo, and APOC can be on the helm and mojo.

@Necksnapper: I believe it is possible to restart recording for the challenge, however I have no intention of spending a week recording the perfect run. The occasional death is ok, but the recording process should focus on killing efficiently and through skill, rather than gearing like a glass cannon and recording until there are no deaths. I do agree with you that intel gems are probably going to be most cost effective, simply because we can buy items that have lower innate intel rolls for a lot cheaper.

@thegrave: You have some great suggestions there! If possible, I think the idea of pooling items for testing purposes is great. I think, when using FA, the witch doctors can get away with less than 500k ehp in all battles. To answer a few questions in your post: the cm wiz does need to permafreeze, we are not allowed to swap gear to abuse snapshotting, a life steal skorn will be needed (CoB wds will take too much dmg on ground effects), and all players except the wiz will be p100. I really like these suggestions though - keep thinking outside the box! Mind adding me in-game?

@Surijak: You have a point, and this is where we'll need the help of the community. Magefirst and Maximus both add a massive bonus to fire skills, but also a massive drop in paper dps. It is rare to see either of these items used in actual gameplay. But this also means these items are really cheap. We need some help with theorycrafters here...it's probably not worth using these fringe items, but there may be some pretty inventive gear combos that are effective but cost almost nothing.

@PaulNG and Skitz: Exactly. Gear swapping is not allowed during a challenge. My understanding is that this means weapons can't be changed for the ubers challenge, so a LS Skorn is required to deal with Siege. Paul, if you have time I'd really like to get your thoughts on gearing the monk. Would you be able to join the group for a few test runs/ah sessions?

@Ragnar: Thanks for the tips for gearing monk! I agree with everything in your post, and I really like the idea of using BT. I have set up a super cheap monk with +1m ehp and +3500 loh just to test team builds against ubers. As you say, without high dps life steal isn't worth it. In terms of the wiz, at the moment I think using Timewarp is best. but I'm undecided on Conflag. What are your thoughts? Keep in mind that the group will also be adding over 100% to monster damage already, so conflag will add a further 20% to this figure. In other words, there are diminishing returns for stacking this bonus. Is it worth including? I don't know, so we've been testing it. If anyone has strong ideas on this I'd love to hear them!
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I don't know how much budget you set up for cm wiz.

But I made a cm wiz that fit your requirement for 58m back in april.

And now i assume it will be even cheaper. you can take a look on the post

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8568378819#1

all the gears are listed below, hope that's helpful.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/93650940@N07/sets/72157633198705374/
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07/22/2013 06:00 AMPosted by skitzflik
WD builds (CoB, SH ,BBV, Horrify:FA, LL dongs, maybe MC)


I wouldn't use SH if we are talking uber. Switch it for Hex....you can only Hex Kulle but it works so well on him. Plus 20% damage won't hurt. You will get almost no damage increase during ubers with SH.
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07/22/2013 04:30 PMPosted by Trefnwyd
Paul, if you have time I'd really like to get your thoughts on gearing the monk. Would you be able to join the group for a few test runs/ah sessions?


Sure, just add me. I've got Skitz on friend's list, I'll add you. If your list is full, find a way to add me then.
Edited by PaulNg#6869 on 7/23/2013 12:31 AM PDT
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07/22/2013 11:47 PMPosted by rockon87
WD builds (CoB, SH ,BBV, Horrify:FA, LL dongs, maybe MC)


I wouldn't use SH if we are talking uber. Switch it for Hex....you can only Hex Kulle but it works so well on him. Plus 20% damage won't hurt. You will get almost no damage increase during ubers with SH.


As a CM wiz, I wouldn't recommend (I actually hate ) hex for ubers. Hex breaks all kinds of crowd control and makes it harder for cm wiz to freeze ZK and SB together.

Mass confusion is the better option for ubers.
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Some more general thinking has me wondering if the gearing challenge will be as much deciding which 'trash' stats you'd prefer to settle for when fitting into the budget, eg. from the looks of analysis around Belial, single lightning resists might be a decent replacement for a good affix, or choosing to settle for lower strength rolls over higher dexterity because it's guaranteed mitigation over maybe dodges.

I also wouldn't completely toss out stats like life regen or extra globe health to help every little bit, especially the latter as I'm all too familiar with what having a spare +1up on a 30 second cooldown is like.

Anyway, that's my daily prattle.
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07/23/2013 05:59 AMPosted by Neuron
Mass confusion is the better option for ubers.


MC is just as useless as SH on uber since it has a 60sec CD.

Hex = 20% damage on 1 target for the whole fight
MC = 20% on 2 targets for only 12 sec at a time.

I have never had a problem with a CM and Hex. Sure the little piggy may not be in the correct spot but 20% damage on kulle will get rid of him pretty fast. Also 1 cyclone strike from the Monk will fix any positioning issues.
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Mass confusion is the better option for ubers.


MC is just as useless as SH on uber since it has a 60sec CD.

Hex = 20% damage on 1 target for the whole fight
MC = 20% on 2 targets for only 12 sec at a time.

I have never had a problem with a CM and Hex. Sure the little piggy may not be in the correct spot but 20% damage on kulle will get rid of him pretty fast. Also 1 cyclone strike from the Monk will fix any positioning issues.


Hex only works on ZK, and the 20% dmg doesn't help at all because the time to finish is dependent on SB killing time. And in some sense, the longer you keep ZK alive, the easier for cm wiz to freeze. Single target freezing is hard for a budget wiz.
Also, the problem with hex, at least in the past patches, is that wiz can't proc from hexed mobs, for a high end wiz it is not a problem but for a budget wiz, that means half of the apoc and freeze is affected. Maybe bliz fixed the bug.

MC works on all ubers and even it is 12 sec, but it works.
Edited by Neuron#1807 on 7/23/2013 10:09 AM PDT
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