Diablo® III

DProg Rocks!

Sarcasm in title.

I was checking on Sorrid's barb gear after he upgraded to his new 9/6 Mempo yesterday (being that I refuse to spoil the game for myself by buying gold, at least I can drool over others' gears for now) when I noticed something very worrying: he had only 300 all resistance. He does MP10 with his barb and I know he isn't foolish to do it with 600k ehp, so I suspected he was probably stacking his dpro heroscore. Off to check and boom, up to rank 1 barb:

http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/sorrid-1603/Mass/28349286

Then I checked the ladder and LOLed when I saw that this double Justice, 18k dps, 13 MILLION ehp is the rank 2:

http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/stackin-1677/STRaiGHTMaCK/30461093

Would you ever want to play with that barb? I'm out.

DProg Rocks!
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It's not a competitive game and yeh dprogress ratings are stupid. Use it to check on item quality, not characters. The top softcore barbs all mainhand low average damage echoes for the hero peen. Ranking is absolutely no indicator of a characters farming ability and building a balanced set will never get anyone towards the top
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Heroscore is a stupid formula. All they did was create unplayable chars by maxing dps or eHP. If you want a real metric t evaluate the goodness of a char against its class use PVP dummy

Look at the #4 barb. He has the best barb on the server by far. #4 heroscor, #1 pvp dummy. Other great barbs like orbbys are barely top 20 but are much better chars. Its a shame people didn't latch on to PVP dummy as the ranking metric
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Looked at my Dprog just a minute ago....Its 1 month old Lol. Doesnt even have my 60 para 22 wiz on there
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Heroscore is a stupid formula. All they did was create unplayable chars by maxing dps or eHP. If you want a real metric t evaluate the goodness of a char against its class use PVP dummy

Look at the #4 barb. He has the best barb on the server by far. #4 heroscor, #1 pvp dummy. Other great barbs like orbbys are barely top 20 but are much better chars. Its a shame people didn't latch on to PVP dummy as the ranking metric


I agree. PVP dummy is a better overall ranking for a character, for what it's worth. Rank a class using PVP dummy and you'll find out the best geared players.

Heroscore should be renamed e-peen score.
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I'm not really a fan of ranking characters in any way. Dprog was nice in the beginning to give you an idea of how you stack up in paragon level and dps unbuffed etc., but then people started to game the system (wearing ruby's in helms to improve heroscore). Even PVP dummy is flawed as a final take home measure of a character: ie not taking into account life steal, passives (off res for monks), or necessary class attributes (apoc for wizards, pickup radius for wds, zombie dog reduc, hota reduction).

I've actaully completely abandoned even using dprog as any form of metric: always use d3up now. If you haven't started using it, I highly recommend it for evaluating your characters and potential item upgrades. (shows lot's of useful stats such as mitigation, ehp with/without dodge, etc.)
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I've actaully completely abandoned even using dprog as any form of metric: always use d3up now. If you haven't started using it, I highly recommend it for evaluating your characters and potential item upgrades. (shows lot's of useful stats such as mitigation, ehp with/without dodge, etc.)


+1
D3up the only way to go never even knew about Dprog until today and its very outdated lol
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Panda, i didn't notice you lost your monk :/
What happened? Is there a public post somewhere about it?

That was an awesome monk you had there, HO snap :(
Maybe your story could save a few other monks... (i hope it wasn't a lag/crash death!)
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Panda, i didn't notice you lost your monk :/
What happened? Is there a public post somewhere about it?

That was an awesome monk you had there, HO snap :(
Maybe your story could save a few other monks... (i hope it wasn't a lag/crash death!)


Haha there's no public post about it. I just played poorly: got too lax because I was only playing mp 7 (used to sustaining on mostly everything on higher mps). I chased a horde, arcane, plague, desecrator bull pack in icefall caverns into a corner. 4 bulls then hit me at once, quick death.

http://puu.sh/3HF1N.jpg Death pic was kinda funny looking back on it now with that elite bull beating his chest after killing me >.> . I guess now I'll get the opportunity to make a monk without an ef. The only advice I can give from this experience is to never get cocky or relaxed. Also don't chase bulls ever.
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D3 up is good for.individual analysis. Dprog is for benchmarking.

Pvp dummy isnt perfect. If blizz made an in game metric it too would have flaws. But its pretty darn good.

And fyi...its a GOOD thing skill buffs are ignored. You need a method to evaluate on an even plane and unbuffee stats is thst way
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D3 up is good for.individual analysis. Dprog is for benchmarking.

Pvp dummy isnt perfect. If blizz made an in game metric it too would have flaws. But its pretty darn good.

And fyi...its a GOOD thing skill buffs are ignored. You need a method to evaluate on an even plane and unbuffee stats is thst way


But people don't run the same buffs, so why not evaluate them with the skills that they use?
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Panda, i didn't notice you lost your monk :/
What happened? Is there a public post somewhere about it?

That was an awesome monk you had there, HO snap :(
Maybe your story could save a few other monks... (i hope it wasn't a lag/crash death!)


Haha there's no public post about it. I just played poorly: got too lax because I was only playing mp 7 (used to sustaining on mostly everything on higher mps). I chased a horde, arcane, plague, desecrator bull pack in icefall caverns into a corner. 4 bulls then hit me at once, quick death.

http://puu.sh/3HF1N.jpg Death pic was kinda funny looking back on it now with that elite bull beating his chest after killing me >.> . I guess now I'll get the opportunity to make a monk without an ef. The only advice I can give from this experience is to never get cocky or relaxed. Also don't chase bulls ever.


OMG, that screenshot (and the bull doing his wheelie thing)!
That was a nasty pack for sure!

That's a very wise advise. When you're killing things fast at higher mp, it's very easy to get more relaxed. Never tried higher than mp7, but when I was doing mp7 we killed things quite fast (played with 2 solid wd bats) and it's true that you get to run fast almost as if you were running a low MP.

That is, until one of the WD died to DC, while he was in a previously cleared area... (a tree left behind went on him, and we did our best to kill all the trees on our way...). He wasn't far behind, but far enough so he couldn't escape his death.

I know you played alot more high mp games than me, so I can imagine how easy it was to get relaxed.

Thanks for sharing!
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Dprog is fine as a diversion as long as you don't take it too seriously. Any metric could be gamed and be contestable. Besides its kinda obvious when someone has a 200+k dps barb with only 500k ehp, its only meant for show. In defense of Sorrid, his is the first hc barb that has crossed 300k dps that I have seen. Finally we have a barb crack top ten dps on the Americas server. There is something fun about watching or shooting for these bells and whistles, no?
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07/22/2013 11:46 AMPosted by Loki
Looked at my Dprog just a minute ago....Its 1 month old Lol. Doesnt even have my 60 para 22 wiz on there


you need to press update button...
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the main problem is EHP weight too much in heroscore formula.

It is much easier to double/tripple your EHP than double your dps.

eg, people can jump from 1mil EHP to 10mil EHP with cheap block/vit items. but it is not easy to raise dps from 50k to 150k.
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D3 up is good for.individual analysis. Dprog is for benchmarking.

Pvp dummy isnt perfect. If blizz made an in game metric it too would have flaws. But its pretty darn good.

And fyi...its a GOOD thing skill buffs are ignored. You need a method to evaluate on an even plane and unbuffee stats is thst way


But people don't run the same buffs, so why not evaluate them with the skills that they use?


You need a means of rating a character. Using skills and buffs gets very complex. You can easily have a vastly superior char be inferior on capabilities due to poor skill selection
But if you rate off of unbuffed stats, you are evaluating the intrinsic capability of the gearset
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the main problem is EHP weight too much in heroscore formula.

It is much easier to double/tripple your EHP than double your dps.

eg, people can jump from 1mil EHP to 10mil EHP with cheap block/vit items. but it is not easy to raise dps from 50k to 150k.


You could just stack your specific stat and boost your dps its done all the time.

Having a balance between dps and ehp is key. My current target is 400k unbuffed with 800k unbuffed ehp.
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I read all posts and all I can say is you should gear tanky for HC, most deaths are because of low ehp. All the dps in the world won't save you from lag, DC or user error. Softcore is where you can obsess over dps safely.
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haha i agree, i use it as a second opinion on my ehp or as a way to compare items. beyond that i dont look at anything, i mainly use d3up, and judge characters based on how well i know my own.

i actually agree with panda, it was cool at first because it was a ranking system and there were so few out there haha. i had an 80k dps WD in the top 100 at one point in January lol. once you see how it breaks down it becomes a little silly.

but i suppose everyone enjoys something different about this game
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[quote]

You need a means of rating a character. Using skills and buffs gets very complex. You can easily have a vastly superior char be inferior on capabilities due to poor skill selection
But if you rate off of unbuffed stats, you are evaluating the intrinsic capability of the gearset


The complexity of any evaluation of diverse builds and multiple classes make arbitrary rankings meaningless. That's what I was trying to get at. I prefer looking at people's buffed stats though, because it seems meaningless to compare characters in a vacuum (a non one with everything monk will have higher unbuffed ehp, but not much more effective dps and probably much less ehp than a standard monk). After all, the dps multiplier for each build is very different, so the "dps" on a sheet of a character is almost useless even when comparing just across a single class. Hota, Rend, and WW barbs all have vastly different dps potentials even with the same sheet.

I'm just trying to say that diablo 3 isn't a great game to compare cross build, cross class, and since there's no way to separate diablo progress by builds within the class, there's no real point to compare
within a class. (ie not meaningful to compare Final's archon and my cm or Orbby's hota barb and sorrid's whirlwind barb)

07/22/2013 02:20 PMPosted by Ace
I read all posts and all I can say is you should gear tanky for HC, most deaths are because of low ehp. All the dps in the world won't save you from lag, DC or user error. Softcore is where you can obsess over dps safely.


It's nice to gear tanky, but what's the point in playing a game with no risk? It's hardcore, if there's no danger, then you'll end up fallign asleep. I prefer playing a game where it takes some concentration to survive and doing as much as a character is capable of. I paid for it recently: lost my 35k+ elite kill monk (as well as my best crafts), but I'm glad I played diablo doing dps. It's not fun being a support character : just my opinion obviously, and you're free to have fun in diablo however you want.
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