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Before I begin,
In order to get full set bonus as necklace is not viable ( -15k was closest ), you can't use the Nat's boots ring combo... I changed to Nat's helm which adds even more armor onto an insane amount... and damn I gotta tell you I LOOK GOOD with a hot pink helm.
was considering Inna's radi + fav and just roll with the 3 set bonus of blackthornes +6% damage to elites..
I just really wanted to test this out because the entire set costs less than 100m and provides..
wow why did it delete what I already wrote
2 ways to go with this for bonuses. Said topic in regards to demons for challenge got me thinking I should at least test it out a bit.
14 % damage mitigation towards elites from boots and bonus / or 21% (litany another 7%)
6 % damage towards from bonus / ~34-36% from SoJ which now is more viable due to EHP needs being met prior.
Wow diabloprogress destructively fails on this: showing 150k more EHP with my other items on.. at lower armor lower hp and lower res. no LoH either.
Edited by Darth#1885 on 7/17/2013 2:06 PM PDT
I like my BT set for various things, though I only wear 4x in PvP.
I could actually see a pretty strong case for it in a EP-based build where paper DPS is simply not that important.
However, then you run into the problem of killing mostly trash mobs but having multiple sources of elite redux from BT.
You can use the BT to tank elites ... but then the loss of DPS is really going to show.
For what it's worth, I use BT boots + BT neck + 4x Inna's for group play because the 7% elite redux on the eHP gain is better than the DPS loss. (I also have to use SoJ + legacy SoJ to keep TR up with my IAS for that build so Nat's is out anyways).
I think BT has a niche slot to fill ... but I would never go beyond the 2 piece bonus of pants + chest or belt + chest or Pants + belt.
I used to run BT chest + BT belt and I was doing quite well in MP10 so I know it's viable.
-Druin, the happy monk
Edited by Druin#1518 on 7/17/2013 2:31 PM PDT
I keep a full BT set in my stash for those times when I want to go in ultimate tank mode - usually when I play with a couple of RL friends who are casuals and whose characters are sub-par compared to mine. It puts me at nearly 70K HP and 900 AR and if I switch my MH to the dual sustain axe I keep for such occasions, I end up with 3% LS and nearly 2000 LoH.
With those stats, I can face-tank without a care absolutely everything up to MP 7-8, where we usually hang and my DPS is still in the 140K range, which isn't terribly bad and doesn't outshine my noob friends' contribution to the run we're doing.
With that being said, BT isn't exactly an end-game material. It's great for leveling and keeping you alive until you can put together some DPS-y stuff, so you can start doing the higher MPs at reasonable speed, but BT's focus is entirely shifted towards mitigation and doesn't offer much in terms of damage. And we all know that the focus of the game is to achieve as much DPS as possible, while maintaining only enough eHP to survive.
Also, if you have your heart set on running BT, it's mandatory to re-roll with a female Monk. The chest and pants outfit on a female is the best outlook the game has to offer, hands down. Therefore, you're ruining half of the set's appeal if you put it on a male. (%
I've ran everything...I've done full BT in PvP (really good for EHP...not much for DPS)...I sold that b/c I don't PvP anymore...I've done a 2 piece BT (with chest/belt) before...it's a decent option (very cost effective for EHP)...overall there is not as much use for BT items for a monk in softcore...now HC is another story...a lot of useage in HC mode!
I was able to maintain 250k with 2 piece on.. 3.. -15k , but full not even close. got to 210k comfortably upping my resists about 300 and armor to over 6k, yet I somehow lost 10k hp putting me at 35k which is unnacceptable. Only way i was able to get that high dps with full set was by using nats helm and ring *it is hilarious* ... why is it magenta on a monk
Edited by Darth#1885 on 7/17/2013 3:37 PM PDT
I sincerely considered 3x for the elite bonus ... the problem is you can usually get >6% damage from that third slot by switching it to another item-type.
I was using chest + belt and considering pants + lacuni for movespeed I believe ... but the DPS loss from Inna's pants > the DPS gain from 6% elites.
So it didn't seem particularly viable.
As a 2h monk I can't give up Inna's Radiance so dropping Nata's 2x by taking BT boots is somewhat out of the question unless I am going FULL tank.
I was able to maintain 250k with 3 piece on.. but full not even close.
The question is why when there better options for DPS on softcore? Unless you just like having a lot of good EHP items...they won't out DPS certain other items in those slots...
Yeah I meant 2 piece at same damage relatively or putting in a nats with added dam instead of the regular AR ones I use.
6% doesn't seem like a lot but were talking 12k dam at 200k.. I just get kinda curious about this mitigation side.. It really feels like its not doing what say a protection shrine does.
** I once got my % damage to melee reduced above 40% with String of ears.
to say it didnt work as intended is an understatement. Somehow DR plays a serious roll.
Supes- Chest and boots can both have the same Dex .. and I apologize I meant with 2 piece.. 3 is a loss. Gotta switch to nat's helm so you do loose eDPS (worse than shown on paper over a mempo or high spirit regen/ dam skill inna's)
Nat's helm isn't a bad talking point either. Not sure why that's not ever considered. Yes ideally you want a mempo for AS.. but nat's guaranteed high armor dex. Journey's are the highest damage boots I believe otherwise..
what we would need to weigh here is the net loss of boots vs helm. Nats helm can have 250 dex I believe but Journeys can only have 100. nats boots .. 300. but then you have the 8% .. ok i need sleep.
Oh last thing for DW Nirvana / Monkfrey --- CS, BoH IwL, Wave o', OAwe, FoF, CW-Rising Tide is kinda interesting for keeping bells goin but I almost got to a semi constant cast in my not so high AS gear using quickening on RM button.. of course now I was like, does this mean I should bring back cyclone in for Cyclone Strike in the first slot ; ?
Edited by Darth#1885 on 7/17/2013 3:52 PM PDT
OK you want to run BT Chest & Belt combo then? It's definitely viable man, I've ran it...tons of EHP (you'll be losing out a bit on DEX if I remember correctly usually the high VIT BT chest doesn't roll that good on DEX (140ish-150) but I maybe wrong been a while:) You gain a lot of AR though so that's nice...The belt man...I simply feel you can run a high DEX 8 Inna's or a WH (my personal favorite).
well.. Belt was getting owned by innas for damage and for prot and TBH
I hear ya, again nothing wrong with going 2 piece BT, I have used it, it's good, Druin uses it (and he knows monk better than me for sure). I really liked the VIT bonus, it's nice gives good EHP.
Are you going to do some sort of TR/2H build with the 2 piece BT and 2 piece Nats or just going DW?
That's actually what I meant when I said "I can't take BT boots due to Inna's Radiance"
If I was a dual 1h monk, I could take Nat's helm + ring then BT Boots + chest + belt.
I am not sure that would work out ... but ...
BT belt is the same Dex as Inna's Belt + Inna's Set bonus AND you gain all-res while maintaining Vit.
BT chest has all-res vs Inna's life% (all-res wins hands down).
BT boots are 1 stat roll short of Nat's so you lose the all-res you gained from BT belt there.
Nata's helm requires you to trade all-res for armor (not terrible at all) and then trade a random affix (spir/sec for me) for nothing.
The result is that you trade a random roll on Inna's helm, life% on inna's chest and 8% ele dmg for 100vit 6% elite damage and 80all-res.
All-in-all I think with perfect rolls these two setups are pretty close with eHP favoring BT + nat's helm and DPS favoring Nat's 4x.
Looks-wise, the BT + Nat's helm combo is WAY better though ... so there is that! :D
If you are comparing Mepo/WH it becomes a lot less clear-cut because IAS losses can't be made up for.
Edited by Druin#1518 on 7/17/2013 4:08 PM PDT
I have too many hours on monk alone ~1700, the entirety of me using TR is probably less than 20 minutes.. yet this is the first time since .6 I dont have a 2h weapon. I tend not to discount 2h (just not for nirvana tbh- what I'd do is close if not exact to Druin's build without TR, Probably Cyclone Strike with Empowered and Rising Tide.) Another thing I consider is the prices of dex skorns lately. Early this morning there was one up for 27m 1360 5% 176 cd or something around that value. But yes, BT probably favors 2h as ApS looses its roll as the dictating factor for bell bursts. Find me Druin's weapon and I'm there.
Real objective with BT's has stemmed from jewelry changes off of all res-- What I'm trying to do is maximize damage from bell without turning into glass.
Very descriptive.. appreciate you breaking that down. First thing I needed to do just to maintain damage was put OwE due to new shoulders gloves and bracers all being max damage with LR. It's funny how that works. I was LR, rolled nothing but CR so I said screw OwE 2 months ago. Hadn't even put it on since, not even for a test. Yesterday, I trash it *somewhat jokingly* and today its situationally back on.
One thing about the belt tho.. and I have a couple Dex AR armor WH's, and of course inna's, The belt doesnt produce much damage to begin with compared to other items so when I see a -10k + on it I weigh it more favorably.
Do you think its possible to correctly use SW Inner Storm w/o full Inna's? And Perhaps this secondary maybe better answered by Fitz, as it was his recommendation for Blade Storm... if say I do a Buddhistava build and do combo but no damage modiffer runes-- IWL FOF w/ just Quickening + SW .. would cyclone rune same proc rate as the clap on quickening?
One weird thing.. am on low sleep but I could swear this lil toothpick is doing more damage than weapon that is on wiz now Foe Blast 1.1k (weapon I have been using for monk while waiting for a dex ls EF). Now after rolling a ,25 APS 1264 2.5% LS w the necessary affix stolen by 2000 life on kill, I'll prob just roll double crit.
I did have an emerald in it last time, it almost seems like ruby is better during nirvana yet I doubt math would add up that much in favor due to it's dps jump is about 80 dps lower than Sin Grasp Did not try Foe Blast with Ruby cuz it was in Sinister Grasp which is now on gAH as I believe best non LS claw.
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