Diablo® III

Wizard : Icy, Dizzy, what else?

Everyone's familiar with the three basic alternatives for Wizard users.

Utilizing the already proven builds: Meteors, CM-WW, and Archons.

With the upcoming changes to PermaFreeze SNS, (which is one of the economic-friendly alternative build for most Wizards), what other builds could be made?

I for one use those three builds from time to time. But I am most comfortable with CM-WW.

So I was wondering if there are any fellow Wizard-user who wonders with the same train of thought.

Will Blizzard buff the other skills, like Ice related builds, (Ice Armor, Ray of Frost), or Disintegrate, or buff the Signature Spells?

Or, will they change some Passive Skills for Wizards? Tweak or change for the better, (Conflagration, Signature Spell-related passives, etc.)

Your feedbacks would be much appreciated. Thanks.
Edited by Battousai#1824 on 7/21/2013 9:24 AM PDT
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With the upcoming changes to PermaFreeze SNS, (which is one of the economic-friendly alternative build for most Wizards), what other builds could be made?


What?



07/21/2013 09:22 AMPosted by Battousai
Will Blizzard buff the other skills, like Ice related builds, (Ice Armor, Ray of Frost), or Disintegrate, or buff the Signature Spells?


If Blizzard were to buff our other skills, post an SNS nerf, they would be outwardly implying that the nerf of SNS is taking away from the Wizard Class, and that they therefore need to compensate us.

By now, with or without quoting statements made by devs, it is overwhelmingly obvious that SNS/CM/WW has never been "working as intended."

I would venture a guess that the nerf of SNS would/will be accompanied by no buffs.

It's the same reason why America has never apologized to the African American community "officially" for slavery. Apologies that are not bundled with restitution are typically hollow. To apologize is to imply that you are going to do something about it. Instead, we just outlaw slavery and call it a day.

Same principle here. Blizzard will nerf SNS. And that's it. My $.02
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07/21/2013 08:25 PMPosted by Melkor
With the upcoming changes to PermaFreeze SNS, (which is one of the economic-friendly alternative build for most Wizards), what other builds could be made?


What?



07/21/2013 09:22 AMPosted by Battousai
Will Blizzard buff the other skills, like Ice related builds, (Ice Armor, Ray of Frost), or Disintegrate, or buff the Signature Spells?


If Blizzard were to buff our other skills, post an SNS nerf, they would be outwardly implying that the nerf of SNS is taking away from the Wizard Class, and that they therefore need to compensate us.

By now, with or without quoting statements made by devs, it is overwhelmingly obvious that SNS/CM/WW has never been "working as intended."

I would venture a guess that the nerf of SNS would/will be accompanied by no buffs.

It's the same reason why America has never apologized to the African American community "officially" for slavery. Apologies that are not bundled with restitution are typically hollow. To apologize is to imply that you are going to do something about it. Instead, we just outlaw slavery and call it a day.

Same principle here. Blizzard will nerf SNS. And that's it. My $.02


Never knew the "S" in SNS stood for slavery. Good to know!
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Never knew the "S" in SNS stood for slavery. Good to know!


just doin m'job
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Yeah, everybody knows that the Wizard was supposed to be the proletariat class of Diablo, Blizzard hates wizards.
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can anyone cite the SNS nerfs? I just hear people talk about it in the forums but haven't actually seen any statements.

EDIT: cite...note site...
Edited by DaRupp#1969 on 7/22/2013 8:23 AM PDT
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can anyone cite the SNS nerfs? I just hear people talk about it in the forums but haven't actually seen any statements.

EDIT: cite...note site...


There isn't any specifics. The devs have said in the in multiple interviews that they think the proc coefficient of wicked wind is way out of line with everything else, so most people assume that means it will get reduced.

Since that is the driver of SNS (it reduces the cooldowns and fuels the arcane from APOC), alternatives would have to be found if the build would remain as it is today.
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can anyone cite the SNS nerfs? I just hear people talk about it in the forums but haven't actually seen any statements.

EDIT: cite...note site...


SNS is a build.

What's making the build overpowered is this:

CM + skills that proc CM well, e.g. LL and WW

Tell me this isn't overpowered.

Archon has a 120 second cooldown.

I pop Archon and immediately cancel it.

I jump into a group of mobs, approximately 10-20, and spam LL.

It takes me less than 10 seconds to get Archon back.

And there will be changes to both Archon and CM.

In an interview with the developers, the question being asked referred to WotB, Archon, CM and Whirlwind and how the abilities will be like in the future:

Wyatt: We didn't want there to be a 100% uptime and that’s still the case. That’s not a small change. That’s a big change that would be impactful if we were to make it in a ‘vacuum’, so we don’t want to do that. We don’t want to flip a switch and all of a sudden Wrath of the Berserker and Archon are not up 100% of the time anymore. Those changes really need to happen at the same time as a number of other changes, because our intention isn't to step in and severely nerf the Wizard and Barbarian classes. Our intention is to make a number of modifications that open up skill diversity, give multiple different skills a different role. So, to give Wrath of the Berserker for example – it could be designed as a skill that’s always up in which case it’s a skill that’s doubling or more than doubling my effectiveness for a single skill slot. So do we then need to design every skill to more than double my effectiveness? That’s not really reasonable. Then it’s like ‘Do we make it less effective? Or does it become a mandatory skill that every Barbarian has to take?’. These are the questions that we ask ourselves. And we've come to the conclusion that Wrath of the Berserker plays well when it is a button that I can push every so often to be awesome for a short period of time. It changes up my tempo; it matches the rhythm of the game when I come across elite packs or whatever. And that allows some Barbarians to say ‘Wrath is an awesome skill for me to take with my build and my items’ and other Barbarians to say 'I’m building mine in a different way, I actually really value Frenzy or Ancient Spear' for example. And that’s where the diversity comes from and this is what we’re trying to build with Wrath and Archon.


Given the way Archon works right now, it won't matter if they put a duration cap of 30 seconds on it. Or if they make Archon last no more than the 15 seconds. As long as CM is there and there are skills that can take advantage of that passive, players will keep using it and centering their builds around the mechanic.

So for SNS, I anticipate a nerf to CM specifically at some point down the line. It makes too much sense. Any build we use right now will seem inefficient and inferior to builds running CM. Sleet Storm and Archon can work well without CM, but don't tell me those builds can be much better with CM.

They can buff Arcane Orb to 400% damage and Meteor to 700-800% damage, but with CM in its current state, why not throw in Frost Nova and CM to make your AO spam build even more overpowered?
Edited by Jaetch#1861 on 7/22/2013 2:27 PM PDT
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I agree with Jaetch.

Also, it is considerably difficult to understand just how much of an outlier SNS is from a damage perspective within our class. Think of a bell curve..in the middle of the hump is almost every other build ever conceived by us. All the way to the right is SnS..but how far to the right, you ask?

I'm thinking it's so far to the right that the dozens/hundreds of variations of builds that make up the "bell" take on the semblance of being far left. That's what makes the nerf that much more painful. While mathematically, eliminating CM's overpowering effects may bring "neutrality" and "balance" to our class, it is/will be realistically perceived as a devastating, game crushing nerf. And that's the real issue.
Edited by Melkor#1521 on 7/22/2013 2:39 PM PDT
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I'm thinking it's so far to the right that the dozens/hundreds of variations of builds that make up the "bell" take on the semblance of being far left. That's what makes the nerf that much more painful. While mathematically, eliminating CM's overpowering effects may bring "neutrality" and "balance" to our class, it is/will be realistically perceived as a devastating, game crushing nerf. And that's the real issue.


They understand that though. "Those changes really need to happen at the same time as a number of other changes, because our intention isn't to step in and severely nerf the Wizard and Barbarian classes."

How they handle it though remains to be seen.

Not only is SNS an extremely effective build, it's also the most cost effective. The average non-flipping non-rmah using player will never accumulate the gold required to build anything else for high MP. Straight up taking out critical mass would make wizards unplayable to 99.9% of the player base.

When I was almost para 100 I went back to act 2 and spec'd the build I was playing back at release. Arcane Orb / Charged Blast / Arcane hydra / Dskin / Prismat / Tele fracture. The first pack in VoTA was a blue skeleton pack that I kill in less than 15 seconds in SNS. If there were still enrage timers I would have hit them. But that build was FUN, proccing illusionist to jump around to health globes because I had no sustain then etc. If they can bring that style of play back somehow I'll gladly drop SNS.
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When I was almost para 100 I went back to act 2 and spec'd the build I was playing back at release. Arcane Orb / Charged Blast / Arcane hydra / Dskin / Prismat / Tele fracture. The first pack in VoTA was a blue skeleton pack that I kill in less than 15 seconds in SNS. If there were still enrage timers I would have hit them. But that build was FUN, proccing illusionist to jump around to health globes because I had no sustain then etc. If they can bring that style of play back somehow I'll gladly drop SNS.



That's really funny, and yup illusionist is one of my favorite wizard skills.
My first wizard build was the Forked Lightning build (which used illusionist.)

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#UlXQiO!WdY!ZYaYbc

It actually still holds up ok. I think this is because
1) it works better with large monsters packs which are everywhere in 1.08
2) it works better with more crit chance (only gotten more with time.)
3) blizzard was significantly buffed.

If I were to change it today, though, I wouldn't use Prismatic Armor, Crystal Shell, or Venom Hydra.
Something like this:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#UlYQSO!WdY!ZYYacZ
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Yeh the problem with illusionist was as my gear got better it wouldn't proc anymore. There was a point during the 2 weeks or so I farmed act 2 (probably the only wizard stubborn and masochistic enough to do so haha) while gearing for act 3 where the snake packs were easier than the fallen soldier packs due to illusionist always triggering when they hit.
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07/22/2013 03:32 PMPosted by Snack
Yeh the problem with illusionist was as my gear got better it wouldn't proc anymore. There was a point during the 2 weeks or so I farmed act 2 (probably the only wizard stubborn and masochistic enough to do so haha) while gearing for act 3 where the snake packs were easier than the fallen soldier packs due to illusionist always triggering when they hit.


In that case, gear like my ninja wizard :)

Deliberately stack less vitality and maintain just a respectable level of AR and armor.

Then stack heavy dexterity, some life regen, LS, life after kill, some LOH, etc.

Run Force Armor to take heavy hits. Recover near instantaneously with Healing Blades and LS right after each hit, or repeatedly spam Mirror Image and Teleport upon Illusionist trigger. 34%+ dodge rate nullifies any damage, and on the occasion you do get hit, there's no one-shot and you can just flee and recover. Spam Arcane Mines to set up a perimeter, snaring enemies and giving yourself more room to maneuver.

Tons of fun to play.
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Haha awesome loadout man, got the ninja mask and everything. Had one of those at first on HC, they're so badass looking. They should add a way to dye your gear to make it look like other gear, at least we can vanishing dye stuff now though.

And yeh, forgot in my other post I was using force armor back then. Prismatic doesn't really do much with 200 all res :P

Edit: But yeh that really illustrates the point. If they could make a build like that even remotely hold a candle to what SNS or Archon does now it would open up the game so much more
Edited by Snack#1534 on 7/22/2013 3:50 PM PDT
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Haha awesome loadout man, got the ninja mask and everything. Had one of those at first on HC, they're so badass looking. They should add a way to dye your gear to make it look like other gear, at least we can vanishing dye stuff now though.

And yeh, forgot in my other post I was using force armor back then. Prismatic doesn't really do much with 200 all res :P

Edit: But yeh that really illustrates the point. If they could make a build like that even remotely hold a candle to what SNS or Archon does now it would open up the game so much more


Ya I want to play your build :'(
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