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Found a BurizaDo Kyanon while leveling new hunter today and is a bit disappointed. I was hoping for 100% pierce with Puncturing Arrow (50%+52%), but I'm not getting 100% not even on first shot.
Can some one explain the mechanics behind? item on profile http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/KirusAlufras1739/hero/34987639 

Who gave you the idea that If the gear doesn't pierce and Puncturing Arrow's pierce must kick in? It should be, if 48% that the gear does not pierce, it still has another 50% chance of piercing. So it should be 52% + 24% = 76% pierce.
I think this is correct. 

im not very sure but in the past i did try and build a stun dh, and gave up in the end. I think it works somewhat like this:
scenario 1 shoot(assume 100% proc coeff) > Puncturing pierce (50% chance) > happy ending scenario 2 shoot(assume 100% proc coeff) > Puncturing didnt pierce > BDK pierce (54% chance**) > Happy ending scenario 3 shoot(assume 100% proc coeff) > Puncturing didnt pierce > BDK didnt pierce (54%** chance, not 104%) > Sad ending **Note even sure this needs to factor in proc. coeff. of HA ... >_< 

Who gave you the idea that If the gear doesn't pierce and Puncturing Arrow's pierce must kick in? It should be, if 48% that the gear does not pierce, it still has another 50% chance of piercing. So it should be 52% + 24% = 76% pierce. Yes you are correct. It works in a very similar manor to that of an AND Gate in digital electronics ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AND_gate): you have 4 possible scenarios that can play out: 1) 0/0 2) 1/0 3) 0/1 4) 1/1 1) HA doens't pierce and Buriza doesn't either 2) HA pierces but Bruiza doesn't 3) HA doesn't pierce but Buriza does 4) Both HA and Buriza Pierce. So with 2x 50% chances of piercing you're actually at a theoretical 75% chance to pierce. 

The way this works is that you have a X% chance to LAUNCH a shot with 100% pierce. You can see this at work by looking at youtube videos of scoundrels with this equipped... the scoundrel's multishot (3 arrows) will either not pierce at all or all 3 will pierce, it is an all or nothing roll to pierce.
When combined with hungering arrow you can actually only get 1 of three results: 1. BDK rolled pierce on shot launch, trumping hungering arrow's chance to pierce and you are a happy, happy, DH. (arrow pierces ALL bad guys repeatedly until it times out, quite fun when shot at close range at a tightly packed group of baddies as it will literally hit all of them multiple times while "turning" to hit its "target") 2. BDK doesn't roll pierce, but on the shot hitting the mob, hungering arrow rolls pierce and you are a happy DH. 3. BDK doesn't roll pierce and neither does hungering arrow. you are a semi sad DH. IMO if you are leveling and are using this xbow I'd suggest using devouring rune (cinder arrow if you aren't quite lvl 42). 

l get it know, I'm basically flipping 2 coins when I shot with HA.
But I have another question, sorry not a HA expert. Does the pierce proc reduce with succession piercing? IMO if you are leveling and are using this xbow I'd suggest using devouring rune (cinder arrow if you aren't quite lvl 42). lol please, check my profile, I got the bow when I'm level 49. Playing MP10 from the first minute when I started out, haven't finish Act3 yet.
Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 7/25/2013 10:16 AM PDT


It works in a very similar manor to that of an AND Gate in digital electronics ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AND_gate): 010101000110100001100001011101000010000001110011011101010111001001100101001000000110001001110010011010010110111001100111011100110010000001100010011000010110001101101011001000000110110101100101011011010110111101110010011010010110010101110011 

If we're talking in terms of an arrow's chance to pierce, I believe it's exactly the same every time. But if we're talking in pure probabilistic terms, it gets smaller every shot. For eg. Devouring arrow is 0.65 chance to pierce, so there's a 65% chance for the 1st arrow to pierce, a 42.24% chance to pierce twice, a 27.4% chance to pierce thrice and a 17.8% chance for the arrow to pierce 4 times in a row. I think. Haven't done this kind of math in a while. Any mathematicians over here? 

Arrows have a fixed travel distance and thus cannot pierce more than a few times. The Puncturing Arrow rune has a 50% pierce chance but has a 0.55 proc coefficient. This means even with a perfect (80% chance) Buriza, the true pierce rate for a 0.55 proc coefficient skill from Buriza is merely 44%. Now stack the two and one obtains (for puncturing arrow):
Chance to not pierce: (1  0.50) * (1  0.44) = 28% Chance to pierce = 1  0.28 = 72%
Edited by Iria#1342 on 7/25/2013 12:30 PM PDT


Thanks for all the replies
This cannon is best with 1. Thunder Ball 2. Chemical Burn especially bolaTB, as it just turn the attack into a linear cannon with stun + freeze. Had a bit of fun with that but hell Act2 is the best the weapon can do without future modification. With a few testing the proc on burikyan is on attack, so before anything flies out of your weapon. If it proc pierce than HA will very likely hit 3 times or more. The pierce proc in HA comes in when your arrow "hits" a target.
Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 7/25/2013 2:17 PM PDT


This was tested the day when Buriz was changed.. ragnakore, a fellow TankDH tested it out..
It had perfect freeze and pierce chance AFAIK.. or just near perfect Pierce.. he was saddened by it.. gave it to me.. and i BRIMMED it.. months after.. it was worth hundreds of million because of the perfect/near perfect utility rolls >_> Info here are correct as far as i know. they aren't additive and somewhat works differently. 

lol
Chrizzle you lost 2 beez if it wa 2 month ago... 

Does it strike anyone, that it's odd you can get a greater than 50% probability for 2 separate events that can each only provide a 50% chance to pierce (per the OP post)? The answer is 50% (to pierce on first target only), the only way of getting a probability greater than 50% is for either event to have a higher chance to pierce than 50%. For shooting once, it is like flipping a 1 coin 2 times one after another, and not 2 coins at once. For instance, first the game checks one skill if you rolled a pierce (at50%) then if it does, the second one is not checked. If you do not pierce, then the game checks the second skill for a hit (again at 50%). Now this is also different from the scenario of shotting 10 arrows and looking for how many times you pierce that first target. The probability will vary over the number of shots, but shotting enough times then the probability of piercing will converge to 50%.
Now if the chance to pierce is raised on either the BKN or the HA then you can get a higher chance to pierce (on the first shot). Also probabilities are not always additive or multiplicative, it depends on what is being done. For instance, now expanding the probability of pierce one target after another (as the topic has evolved to). The proc coeff obviously make this a more challenging problem. 

I have one of the best Buriza with 76% pierce, 14.1% freeze, 4% IAS and 46 Vit. Thank god.


Nondescript
I guess you are not into computers, the code does not allow you to do 2 thing at once. Not just this game, but in everything we have that runs in the binary system. You much do A before you do B. So it is flipping 1 coin twice or 2 coins but in sequence and not all together at the same time. speaking of probability, it is a chance, nothing is "for sure". You have a higher chance unless you have infinite trials, your number will never get within 0.1% the displaying chance on the weapon. burikyan adds pierce to attacks not the skill, if you take the wording of the game mechanics it makes sense. I will have to take the weapon and test it on a wizard, as I think I just found the best way to make ray of frost OP.
Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 7/25/2013 9:07 PM PDT


Mathematically these cases are equivalent, as long as it is independent occurances, i.e. the result of the second coin flip does not depend on the result of the first coin flip. What I want to say is, for calculating the probability of at least one of the coins showing tails, it does not matter if you toss two coins at once or one coin twice in a row. For the two coins at once toss, the probability of at least one showing tails is equivalent to the probability of the roll not being heads/heads. As the probability of a roll of heads/heads is 1/4 (it is one result out of 4 possibilities), the probability being not heads/heads is 3/4 i.e. 75%. In the same way you can calculate the probability of at least once rolling tails when you toss a coin twice. The only outcome of not having tails at least once is when you roll head twice. The probability of having heads once is 1/2 (0.5), the probability of having heads twice in a row is 1/2 x 1/2, i.e 1/4 or 0.25. As this is the only outcome of not having tails, the probability of having tails at least once is 10.25=0.75, i.e. 75% the same as above. I hope this clears things up on probabilities when more than one roll is involved :) 

result is useless bow... or rather trash skill. the only 3 skill that does not pierce by default are Magic Missile Arcane Orb Ray of Frost ... 1 and 2 pierce and orb deal aoe like bola but without delays. The frosty beam is cool to use with the weapon as you can "freeze" mobs, but no penetration on any of the runes (did not try sleet, no point). From this we can conclude 1 thing. For the pierce proc on burikyan to proc the attack must be a missile attack, an attack that will fly out and can not be dragged by your cursor. RF shoots out arrows so you don't have to worry it does proc this pierce. dps was 33k fully buffed and mp1 feels like mp56 with my dps on the wizard.
Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 7/25/2013 10:06 PM PDT


lol yes. i know. sadly.. when they were new, they weren't even looked upon.. a few weeks after.. they all gone up in prices. 
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