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Any word from blizz if they plan on fixing DH to put them on par with other classes?
- Lowest dps of all
- Only class with No "save" from death passive
- Brings nothing to a group
- etc etc
I love the playstyle of a DH, but i play on HC so survability is important, and bringing something to a group also very important ( barbs -warcry- monks - mantras- DH - on demand boost to dps- wiz - freeze-)
Really? I find HC easy with my demon hunter. The only class with a ccb that has a very short cooldown (2 seconds), and you are a ranged class, so you kill them or reduce the numbers before they are even close. slow is 12 yards aoe and without delays. Oh and the first attack bonus that is able to kill everything scaling with your dps and mp choice.
- Lowest dps of all
- dps is about the same as everyone else, just that the skill is not broken with high output numbers
- only class with die with me passive
- that is a lie, a few skill add to group and are very good
please, learn to play before complaining
Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 7/26/2013 11:40 AM PDT
Dps isnt the same as everyone, you are saying it yourself DH has no "broken" skills which translate into HIGHER dps for other classes ( I would say that DH skills r broken not the otherway around)
"only class with die with me passive" ????
What skills are good ( lets say equal) to the other classes? ask ppl in HC what class they would rather have on their tam in high MP and DH is last
No disrespect to Impreza, Cameo, Die, Nyan, many other great Dh'ers. I only have upmost respect for you guys, and I honestly believe you guys make DH stand shoulder to shoulder with other class.
I have tried to "learn to play", and to my own term, I have succeeded in it. But I'm still no Impreza, Cameo, Die, or Nyan.
Though my DH impression has improved greatly, I still cannot fathom how DH is not under performing.
How many of us general population is going to be KT_Flash? STX_Innovation? Grubby? or even EGHUK?
You argue the class are balanced, but only if you're good enough.
If this was Starcraft 2 or dota. I would say screw the newbies. Why complain about balance when there's so much improvement to be made? But fortunately, or rather unfortunately, Diablo 3 has no ladder, has no tournaments, no team leagues, nor individual cups. Diablo 3 majorly stands as hack and slash RPG. In this case, sorry to say, but cater to the general populus, granted, the newbies.
Edited by Iscariot#1538 on 7/26/2013 1:01 PM PDT
I still don't get why there are still DH's out there that battle against buffing their own class.
Not so much this, just content with trying to play the DH as it is and make things work.
I dont think we need a "fix", but sure buffing some skills wouldnt be a problem to make them more useful.
This is pretty much an on going argument i guess, no-ones gonna win, we all have our own take on it, but lets put one thing down on paper here and now, NoONE will be moaning if more diversity with skills is opened up.. all that does is open up the game to more things and experimentation with skills... more stuff to do, nothing bad there!
I just think that some of us dont feel were the ones that need "fixing" as such..... If anything the OP barbs need a "fix" right? :P
Bring nothing to a group?
- Caltrops, Entangling = slow
- M4D = more damage
- Bola Shot/Thunder Ball, Grenade/Stun Grenade = Stun
- Spike Trap = Big damage
- Sentry/Aid Station/Gardian Turret = Heals/Reduce Damage for allies
- Elemental Arrow/Frost Arrow/Lightning Bolts = Slow/Stun
- Rapid Fire = Good damage
I say turn the table around. The issue at hand is not the class but MONSTER POWER. MP is the start of all our problem, not the class. The devs continued to add to this broken "difficulty" scaling system by giving monk, wizard, witch doc, and hunters more "dps" but without considering why player ask for more.
Barbarian are OP after blizz patched 1.04 and 1.05. Demon Hunter's version of HotA is CA but it not unlimited, as it cost 50 but you can only regain 9 per second when you need 25 discipline to refill 3 shots. HotA is 20 and they can regain 15 per hit. Unlike the wizard, barbarian should not have unlimited Fury, this need to be addressed.
I can go on, but my point is that "the class is in a good position", thing can be better but that is with improvements and not by "fixing".
IMO MP need to be fixed so players are play the game the way it is designed to be.
Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 7/26/2013 2:23 PM PDT
I hesitantly agree that Monster Power may have caused this havoc.
But nevermind that; Monster Power was a very good move forward to at-the-time-very-content-lacking-Diablo3. The issue at our hands is here to stay. Put the table back where it belongs.
You have stated that Barbarians are Over powered. May I ask, over powered compared to what? To the rest of classes? Including perhaps DH? Saying Barbarians are OP, and other class are UP is inversely related and cannot be argued otherwise.
Furthermore, you, yourself, have proven why Barbarians are OP with their fury and why DH are UP with their hatred. And as you stated, you can go on and on with it too.
So I'm a bit confused when you say that the class is in a good position, just Barbs in a better position.
Ok, nevermind that, I do understand. You're asking for Barbarian nerf right?
Well then, welcome to the same boat as I am in. Whereas we're asking for buffs, you just want more nerfs in this game.
It's not necessarily MPs, even though I once thought it was. It's the combination of things. Just like how life steal is broken and degenerate, ONLY because of the combination of such high damage becoming the solution to all problems.
The issue is the gear is too good for the other classes and they scale with it much better. It gets harder and harder, and will be harder and harder for DHs until the collective can outgear MP10, then the metagame will shift again, back to which classes can movement speed from point A to B, and other stuff etc.
Nothing's really changed for DHs as much as we think, but the small changes magnify themselves, as we've always had the "eDPS" issue since the beginning. In the earlier days of the game's life the damage pool was smaller it was easier to have a multiple of sheet damage over the other classes for a variety of reasons, so it wasn't so clear then. As such it was balanced then.
The game had heavier damage from the monsters, so the melee classes for example needed to stack more defenses. A Barb entering inferno for example could have something like 5-10k sheet damage, enough damage to kill stuff before enrage with proper isolation, and lots of defensive skills and gear. DHs comparatively couldve been running around with 15-30k dps, having less protection because we get hit less(besides certain skills allowing us to spec for more sheet offense due to defensive relief - like the old smokescreen).
If you notice, even back then, DHs could run around with 3x the sheet damage than the other classes. If we got a Monk that can only get up to 8k DPS because they need to put on a lot of defenses to survive hits, you could see a DH running around 24k DPS.
Now, with how much stronger the gear is especially with 1.0.4, and the introduction of MPs, and how Blizzard increased the amount of crit chance on gear(this watered down passives like Sharpshooter) aswell as lowering the incoming damage monsters deal(so the other classes could put on more offensive oriented gear over defense). It then became easier for the other classes to achieve a higher damage rating. A Monk these days can run around with 200k sheet damage, so now it's like the DH has to comparatively go for 600k. Instead of before where the Monk had to make due with 8k, but the DH could get to 24k. It's also a lot easier with the available gear to achieve 24k, because that was done just with random blues.
Lowered monster damage, same 30% damage reduction from melee classes ends up being even stronger, and they can put on even more offensive gear than probably originally designed by far.
As I said a long time ago, we dont' scale with gear as good as the other classes, but we also rely on it less to even have the chance to play how we want to play and get away with what we want to.
MPs exacerbated the situation, because it keeps raising the health bar, so the damage bar needs to go higher, but the higher it goes, it starts to be insane for DHs to maintain.
EDIT: even with how things are now, I still think DHs are the best class in the game. We just failing in the metagame(the gear level and lack of monster damage) right now. It's like if you were playing Super Turbo(which is a very counterpick oriented SF game) and everyone in the current metagame is picking Dhalsim and you like using Sagat.
Edited by ActionKungfu#1184 on 7/26/2013 3:43 PM PDT
Essentially what I tried to illustrate in my previous post is that the game itself isn't balanced. Not only are there some screwed up builds from the others(Barb and Wiz notorious builds), but the game itself is far more accommodating for the other classes. There was a much better balance when the game first came out.
The weaker they made the monsters, the better that damn 30% damage reduction became, too. Then they made the offense you can get from gear even better? We all should've been able to call this a long time ago, but the item rolls are so !@#$ty that takes a long time to see how something is going to play out.
Items 2.0 could instantly change things in a hilarious way, anyhow.
But I ain't really holding my breath. I enjoy different things out of this game, than most players do.
I guess I need to add a bit
"the class is in a good position" (taking the devs' view)
1. nothing needing immediate change
2. player are playing with a good variation of builds.
I'm not asking nerfs, but for the devs to take another look on how they think they are "balancing" each skill within a class. MP10 is not 10x MP3 but only 10x the HP of the old inferno but their damage are not much different from a 4 man party at launch.
Barbarian are overpowered once they learn to critically hit. A barb can load its cc to 93% after buff and without using skill cc bonus like what we have on strafe or rapid fire. In the current game mechanics cc = damage = resource = healing. aps is a multiplier, and barbarian with 93% cc = they can stay in immunity to all control impairing effects 93% of the time. Inherited 30% reduction + a huge build up of strength = highest defense and highest damage. Everyone can stack all resistance for defensive, but no other class can stack armor like a barbarian. The only class that can reach 98-99% damage reduction along with its 100% ccr. If you got the gear it is also the fastest attacking class (aps = 1.65 x 1.15 x 1.81 x 1.25 = 4.29).
HotA was upgrade until it can perform outstanding result. aoe from 2 to 3 to 4. critically hit bonus went from a fixed 5% to 1% per 5 Fury (+20% on average on top of 75% cap). What's even funnier is that this skill has a cost reduction that can stack to -19...
And really the devs just notice that Impale is lacking compare to Hungering Arrow in the most recent interview. Impale with buffed in 1.04 along with HotA but
Impale - 250% to 265% (+6%)
HotA - 200% to 325% (+62.5%)
How do they do their math I have no idea. both skill can be reduced by 19 but Impale will still cost 6 hatred, where as HotA is 1. No buff to aoe, no bonus to critical hit chance, and blizz expect players to use a skill like Impale as a primary damage dealer.
When they try to balance the game they failed each patch.
1.04 and 1.05 was everyone but barb got the most
1.06 was a joke
1.07 was monk, a tiny bit on wiz
1.08 was witch doc and wiz and hunter taking a bite
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