Diablo® III

Diablo 3 needs "power-up" quests like Diablo 2 did

07/26/2013 04:32 PMPosted by Kageki
@Grimiku: The topic of redundancy about NM and Hell difficulty has a simple cause. At level 43 a player can gear with "Reduced Level Requirement 17" gear and can easily have 20k+ damage at level 43. The reduced level requirement modifier has made Hell obsolete. This modifier is cheap and can been gotten on AH items for very little gold.


Nope. Leveling is still frustrating at this range even with those weapons. I played through Hell and was still 59 after I beat diablo. It's the only diffculty where I have this issue and need to backtrack.

I can surprisingly still die because my defense is crap even with good dps. It's just not fun doing it at all.


I did this with my last 3 characters and I played at MP 10 in each difficulty in each act just so I could level up. I didn't play act3/4 in hell with either 3 of those characters I don't think, because I was already 60. Just had someone do diablo for me and it was off to inferno. It's too easy like that
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07/26/2013 12:06 PMPosted by CiniCraft
There really needs to be quests again that permanently make your character better. After killing all the final bosses on Diablo 2 you still had to go back and do optional quests.

As I recall most of that type of stuff was removed under the idea of "but no one really did that stuff anyway" per Jay Wilson. Granted he may not have directly meant the potion for life or skill point quests. But the heart of "something to do" is gone. All the little side stuff was removed because it was deemed that it was not fun. But when they removed all that stuff they also removed the feeling of building up your character no matter how mundane it might have been in their eyes.
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How about insteads of wasting time trying to fix or remove a difficulty try this out.

After the account has at least one character beat inferno, they have the option to skip difficulties and lvl up with gold-cost that increases with each level. An example would be making a lvl 60 barb, wanting to try a DH with all skills enabled. You would choose the option from a merchant or NPC in town, or even a new button on charater select screen to pay gold for another level or a flat rush-fee to advance to next difficulty.

Rough Numbers -
Levels 1-35 = 25k each
Levels 36-51 = 75k each
Levels 52-60 = 150k each

Difficulties -
Unlock NM = 50k
Unlock Helll -= 125k
Unlock Inferno = 500k

Have the option to lvl stop at 60 so people cant buy paragon levels, have the gold-bought levels only count for the char they were bought on, and enjoy a new gold sink were everyone can get their lvl 60 chars and skip the undesired repeating acts/difficulties if they so choose. Like i stated those are rough numbers, personally i think they should be higher to help remove excess gold from this game but w/e, how bout' it Bliz?
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07/29/2013 10:39 AMPosted by Garthandal

As I recall most of that type of stuff was removed under the idea of "but no one really did that stuff anyway" per Jay Wilson. Granted he may not have directly meant the potion for life or skill point quests. But the heart of "something to do" is gone. All the little side stuff was removed because it was deemed that it was not fun. But when they removed all that stuff they also removed the feeling of building up your character no matter how mundane it might have been in their eyes.
And putting any power into characters with anything other than gear does not promote rmah sales.


Bingo... The reason they removed character builds and made every skill available to every class..

In the "new direction" skills and builds are just fluff, gear is all that matters (hello RMAH/AH, horrays to Kotick) and don't think they are gonna change that in the xpack...
It's the core of the money scheme in D3
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Technoman just had the banhammer laid on him with extreme prejudice.
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The thing with redundancy hit me back when the game was in development and it was determined there would be 4 difficulties. I remember thinking even then, 4 times through the game, damn, that is repetitive as hell. My thinking goes along the line of this: What is normal about demons and !@#$ inhabiting earth? Normal should not be in the equation, because at the very least if the demon part was true it would be a Nightmare. The learning curve could be adjusted so that the difficulty is a little less at the beginning of Nightmare, and ramps up through the acts and Hell is like it is now.

I don't know, its just crazy to go through the same content 4 times, and to beat it all, I have only found like 3 legs/sets in those early levels and I was already past the point of using them when I found them.
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07/26/2013 03:55 PMPosted by MisterAjikko
in short, there needs to be something that worth doing and it's gear independent at the same time when one has completed everything in this game. And that very thing that we need should be an infinite-content type of event.


A viable PVP system would make infinite content. For example: "I'm trying to make this godly character/build, but I need to find items with more 'x' abilities." This is what I told myself when I played D2. There were certain uniques and sets that favored PVE and others that favored PVP. Same with builds.

This game on the other hand a) has no PVP, b) has no items that favor PVP over PVE, and c) has every build available to every character at all times, which eliminates replaying the game to make a certain build. All of these tie in to making a game replayable, and adding value to items. The more people playing and replaying, the more value items have. The more value, the more diverse the economy. The more diverse economy favors PVE farmers and PVPers just as well. You could see this in WoW and D2, both of which are online RPG predecessors. I seriously think the creators of this game just wanted money up front so they could move on to developing other projects, and they didn't want to take the time to create a balanced PVP system with the PVE abilities.

Where's the surge of adrenalin you get from doing combat with real people?
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Community Manager
Posts: 2,055
There is a lot of great feedback in this thread, and I really appreciate that. There was a couple of points that I wanted to address.

Right now, they are spending their time on trying to re-balance the misplaced levels that would have come from having all of the difficulties (normal-nightmare-hell-inferno), instead of working solely on producing an interesting end-game itemization fix.

If we aren't going to get what we really want, lets at least throw ideas at them that make sense within the bounds of what they are currently spending their time doing...


I understand why your concerned, but this is not a case where you only get one or the other.

You guys need to understand that the worst thing you can do, if you really like an idea, is come announce it on the forum. All that you accomplish is to basically ensure that you will never see it implemented, lest Blizzard be accused of plagiarism.

Not to mention the fact that developers, as well as other artists, don't generally accept ideas from outside sources - they feel it places a damper on their artistic integrity.


This is also not true, and we highly encourage everyone to post their feedback. It doesn't matter where a good idea comes from so long as it meets all the criteria it would need for a serious consideration. Besides, sometimes a feature ends up being a conglomeration of several great ideas by the time it's implemented.
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The elite players, the ones that play 40+ hours a week, need something that provides a challenge to play. Currently with the guild that I run with there are a number of players that faceroll mp10. This is telling me the game is too easy, not too hard. The best of the best should have some difficulty clearing the best content in the game.

Tweak Hell so it's difficulty is slightly lower than Inferno mp0 (and by the time Hell is complete, it shoudl have the difficulty of Inferno MP0).

Then take Inferno and make it equivelant to mp0=mp10.

You can then make better items that are extrodinarily rare that will allow players to progress through the end-game.

"the best of the best" ... pfffeeehehe. Dont make me laugh.

I swear ... this "elite players", that sound so ridiculous. Like they would the be the spec-ops versions of the "usual" player or something ...

seriously, if someone is playing this game 100 hours per week, then he hasnt accomplished anything. he isnt more elite then you, me or anyone else. He is eventually achieving a lot in the game as far as progress goes, sure, but that was it. I dont see why that makes someone "elite" or better in anything. But hey! Each to his own.

Thing is, that ask those "elite" players how they actually progressed in Inferno in the first days. You might be surprised. Because I did.

What you hear often is:

    Corpse hoping

    - abusing of exploits and/or game mechanics (like chests, goblin spawns, vases etc, all the nice little things Blizzard changed after some time, also skills which caused bugs/exploits like the teleportaion/archon ability of the Wizard which gave him perma archon. Exploiting the fact that monsters would not cross a certain position, like in act 3 with the steps next to the first waypoint in the game and so on and so fort ...)

    - runing bots

    - farming gold in lower difficulties like crazy (when gold was still something worth) to buy the best stuff

    - flipping items/gems (when it was still profitable to do that with gems)

    - using clearly overpowered skills and builds to progress, like the shadowpower from the DH which was I think 3 sec? invulnerability or something? No clue. Or some of the Wizard skills which got nerfed heavily. - both classes have been nerfed to the ground so far.

    - Using Tyrael to kill mobs/elites (when he still did some damage).

Oh yes! The game was sooooooooo difficult for those people. Farming act 3, killing the weakest trash mob or simply while using Tyrael to do it, gaining lvl63 items that could not even drop in act 1 (that was patched in later remember ...)

Of course the game is easy if you have the right items. Its a damn gear based game. What difficulty is there? I saw barbs and DHs killing everything on Inferno when they had 300-400k DPS before the nerf to attack speed. They simply walked trough the content and they had no reason to worry about anything ...

Thing is, you can NOT keep a game alive with those "elite" players. That simple. They are not the people that buy the game in masses. Most of us have jobs to follow, a life next to Diablo, or we simply dont enjoy to play a single game 8 ours each day. As soon you make those people your demographic ... well we have seen how that was going in Diablo 3 so far ...
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If the game has become so easy (that you're running inferno mp 10 in HC) then time to move on. Like every other game, you get to the point that you beat it and its no fun anymore. Move on. Saints Row 4 will be out late next month, that's when I'll be leaving until the expansion pack.
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07/29/2013 04:54 PMPosted by Grimiku
This is also not true, and we highly encourage everyone to post their feedback. It doesn't matter where a good idea comes from so long as it meets all the criteria it would need for a serious consideration. Besides, sometimes a feature ends up being a conglomeration of several great ideas by the time it's implemented.


So many great ideas from this game:

http://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/items/elite/uswords.shtml

so please explain why you guys either simplify or streamline most of them.
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Posts: 2,942
07/29/2013 07:10 AMPosted by Duck
The best of the best should have some difficulty clearing the best content in the game.


Diablo has never been about "hard and difficult content" so not so sure why it was expected in this game... you see how much it failed in this game. It doesn't work in a Action RPG. This game is about character development and gearing up that character... the content is just the means to the end... not the end.

Also, your expectations are completely unreasonable. How can you have the best gear in the game AND the content still be hard. What is the point of the gear? As soon as they add harder content you get better gear and the content isn't hard... this game isn't about "content progression"... this isn't an MMO.
Edited by SmokeyMcBudd#1518 on 7/29/2013 5:34 PM PDT
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With gold value dropping again, i was wondering if blizzard could maybe revisit the minimum stats can roll on items to maybe clear some of the trash out of the game.

Example.

Lets take a chest piece for example.

Chest rolls armor as an affix.
Currently on ILVL 60 or above i think the lowest armor can roll is 176.
Chest rolls STR as an affix i think the lowest it can roll is 78-83.

Could we maybe bump these lower stats up a little to just clear some trash from the AH?
I just think Diablo 3 needs a better option for item sinks.

Unless you say a ladder is coming soon and min item values wont be touched due to this.
Then i can understand that <3

Also does it take a lot more work then most people think to implement a ladder mode?
PoE looks like the host several ladders a day, maybe i don't understand how hard it is to add a ladder to the game.

Also Blizzard. Do you feel a ladder would add any thing to this game?

Thanks for your time!
Edited by xASGxSlayerx#1654 on 7/29/2013 5:43 PM PDT
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The best of the best should have some difficulty clearing the best content in the game.


Diablo has never been about "hard and difficult content" so not so sure why it was expected in this game... you see how much it failed in this game. It doesn't work in a Action RPG. This game is about character development and gearing up that character... the content is just the means to the end... not the end.

Also, your expectations are completely unreasonable. How can you have the best gear in the game AND the content still be hard. What is the point of the gear? As soon as they add harder content you get better gear and the content isn't hard... this game isn't about "content progression"... this isn't an MMO.


Thats why they have to look at the current preset skill system...

Give us a reason, through builds, to make many characters and that way fill in the "re-playability"

It will also help spreading out the items because of the many specialized builds...
Edited by Psychonaut#2909 on 7/29/2013 5:45 PM PDT
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This is also not true, and we highly encourage everyone to post their feedback. It doesn't matter where a good idea comes from so long as it meets all the criteria it would need for a serious consideration. Besides, sometimes a feature ends up being a conglomeration of several great ideas by the time it's implemented.


What are the criteria that an idea needs for serious consideration?
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Posts: 412
The elite players, the ones that play 40+ hours a week, need something that provides a challenge to play.

(. . .)

You can then make better items that are extraodinarily rare that will allow players to progress through the end-game.


Somehow, whenever someone asks for a difficulty to provide challenge, they also seem to ask for items exclusive to that difficulty to make it easier.

Do you want the challenge, or not?
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