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Use WoS instead of bears, and name it ScariedSoul
Slow Them, fear them, smash them!
Edited by Tango#1978 on 8/1/2013 7:36 AM PDT
I'd be happy to play with you in game EremiteAngel, I'm sure your DH would make a good scoundr.. er, team mate! :D
@Piggy, I haven't tried this in a group setting yet but I imagine it'll depend on what sort of group you're with. For organised everything dies in one place groups I don't imagine this "helping the team", but if you're all happy to play keep away as a group or in a random public game then I don't suppose it'll upset anyone too greatly. ie. ask your team mates. :)
@Tango, thankyou, I'll certainly consider WoS as I cycle through ancillary options. Bears is our most flexible hard hitting mid ranged aoe skill and I consider bears and acid cloud the core components of this build which everything will be moulded around.
I tested it yesterday, and yes you need AC/AR and in my case, a tank, so i molded this:
The result is kinda simple: Mobs kept feared while u spam WoS and hit AR. And for a large group of feared mobs, WoS > bears
again, is not the most effective build, but is kinda fun. I tested it from MP7 A1 to A3, since my gear is kinda cheap, and i only die at the begining, trying to find the way to play it. Then, i never was in risk..AT ALL!
Edited by Tango#1978 on 8/2/2013 1:08 PM PDT
Is it bad that I think it would be hilarious to go into a public game with full fear gear and a build like below?
I think I'll call it "Blame the Barb".
I have been running WoS extensively the last couple nights and I must say it's really working for me and taking away most of the action from spiders in the process though I'm not at the point that it can fuel bears/ac without any spiders at all.
I also took another cue with regards to the follower and slapped another EF and Star on my enchantress which also let me take missile ward as there's still a bit of ranged fire getting through, while melee isn't too hard to avoid (as long as I can stay awake lol).
It's keeping me on my toes, engaging, and letting me ignore survival way more than usual by abusing the high fear proc rate, D3up only puts me at 300k ehp O.o.
I'll come back to some of my thought processes regarding gearing and skill selection when I'm not so tired.
I can't see the point in so much fear when freeze/stun work so much better.
A little fear is good, but so much fear and everything is always running away from you.
Your build is like the opposite of a CC build.
Another thing to consider is some/all bosses are immune to fear. Ghom is immune to fear for sure. Haven't tried it on the others recently.
I liked my proc build because it was strong against elites and bosses.
Finally gave it up because in MP10, it didn't seem as effective.
Thanks for pointing that out about the bosses, I hadn't even thought to try this in that scenario. Just did a run of ghom to get an idea and yeah, these guys are going to gear check your dps/ehp/sustain. Needed some ring-a-rosie to stay out of the clouds.
As for freeze/stun vs fear. I dunno, haven't had the pleasure of running the former yet, but I guess fear is more freely available and it puts monsters further away when the effect wears off leaving you safer? Either way, it serves the role of crowd control as well as giving you space on demand, similar to horrify use.
Apparently I was wrong about the max possible fear in my initial post too as EF seems to be able to roll double fear for 22.6 max. Not really as useful as other stats in taking the slot but worth noting when looking at the absolute limits we can achieve.
Run out of time for now, but I'll just mention managing mana with the EFs high attack speed, potential for LoH, and figuring how many pieces I can drop and still have a high enough fear proc is where my mind is currently. Following up on suggestions/criticism in this thread has helped me iterate a more stable build much quicker than doing it just by myself. Thanks!
Edited by Surijak#1957 on 8/5/2013 10:02 AM PDT
Told ya! Spamming WoS is better than bears.
Of course is CC, the diference is that crowd does not stay in a single place, they keep running away!!
No bosses then :(
143k DPS Unbuffed
Stun 4.8% / Freeze 6.3% / FEAR 19.9%
Acid Rain to proc. WoS to Kill . Avoiding to be hit while spamming WoS. Enchantress with Azurewrath and Star. No need to use fear in another slots.
Edited by Tango#1978 on 8/5/2013 12:45 PM PDT
Ok, I'll try to tackle this properly this time.
The issues I've had to tackle so far (because I assure you there are issues there when you first pick up this play style)...
Echoing fury is a pita weapon, both because of its high fear proc and its high attack speed. For a witch doctor where we're always trying to get up close and personal with monsters for our bats, bears and dogs, fueling our GI, GF and CoL, and maximising damage within the limited radius of our paranoia and BBV. All this at odds with the fear proc and then also having to deal with one of the highest base attack speed items in the game further crippling our mana supply. It's a no brainer, this item is bad news for all our standing builds.. Then I make it even worse by slapping a tal rasha's guise of wisdom into the gearing, further taking away another mana regen/max mana slot.
With this in consideration I've had to plan a build that strays from having a stream of buffs on my bar, and in the process the passives that fuel those buffs, it needs range, to be mobile and to allow rapid skill cycling. Last of all but I suppose most importantly, it requires a mana generator which is where the ebb and flow of this play style ends up setting its roots. I've accepted the fear, I've stacked my bar and passives with ways to keep my mana going, and I've turned this into a ranged, glassier witch doctor.
So the score so far. I've swapped out the star for a LoH amulet. The fear proc reduction seemed slightly noticeable, but the boost to sustain was totally worth it. I think I was too flippant at first blush, the lifesteal on the EF is important but picking up the LoH elsewhere is a massive help. I'm also happier being much more aggressive with my acid rain use since which ties into something else I learnt in the process...
I found dropping a single acid rain before engaging a new pack wasn't particularly noticeable on positioning due to the congestion, but it completely solved (due to the fear proc) the first hit instagib possibility you find when trying to pick up that initial 5 stack soul harvest without using your spirit walk.
I think I'm going to drop the fear on the mojo and try to pick up a better one with bear reduction or +spirit barrage again. I went all out fear when I first started but I haven't seen scaling it back a little bit hurting the build while making the overall gear situation stronger, though I have room to pick up more fear on the helm again with maybe a better second stat there as well. Still trying to understand the point where it becomes 'enough'.
My current version of the build:
There is some situational cohesiveness to the build that may not be immediately noticeable as well, like acid rain completely decimates a room of destructibles so you never waste any spirit barrage souls. Soul to waste lets me manage positioning for much longer without constantly having to refresh. And well of souls has a high enough proc rate to let me fear stutter step (WoStep?) stragglers to the next pack.
I think there may still be room to adjust some of it for personal preference, for example I found with a more careful rotation, spirit barrage:the spirit is willing could replace widowmakers/VQ as a mana battery and I could slot spirit vessel and horrify:FA in to make the whole build feel safer.
Still a few more aspects to refine and cover in proper details, but I think I'll update the original post to do this and properly thank everyone for their ideas. Afterwards I may just have to learn how to do videos since I've never worked with media before, but that's for me to figure out if it's within my capability to satisfy those who'll gloss the 10,000 words and just want the video.
ps. @Tango, thanks for the information on the combined stun/freeze/fear setup. I guess I'll keep trying to acquire the gloves/belt and see how it goes.
Edited by Surijak#1957 on 8/7/2013 6:04 AM PDT
mmm I was thinking will mana be enough if you drop spiders/VQ for SA passive?
SA gives a bigger mana pool and higher mana regen. which may make up for VQ.
if it works, dropping spiders for another skill would be good as it seems like you got quite a bit of attacking skills out there - spiders/bears/barrage/cloud.
maybe a zombie wall or grasp or even dogs/garg might be a good option to replace spiders.
but if SA doesn't work out for your playstyle and spiders/vq is preferred, might want to try spider queen instead of widowmakers and see if mana works out better because spider queen stays out there for about 15 secs for one time cast only and gives procs VQ for that duration. (credits to luffy - his tip).
Edited by EremiteAngel#6608 on 8/7/2013 8:09 AM PDT
Fair points, I don't think my current gear would allow me to sustain it but I could be wrong (you were spot on with your last suggestion), not that cutting some attack speed would be out of the question either since it's already rather ridiculous. Something I've been trying to figure out with this setup is if vq and roe double up given roe adds to your sheet mana regen.
with your 20% Fear EF it is enough!, i just got a 19.9% one and no problem at all. You just need to release acid rain here and there :D.
1.- Use your Zuni helm, it will probably gives u more DPS, EHP, and you can use the 4 pieces bonus. Instead to get more Fear, you will be in the capacity of release more acid rain: More rain, more procs.
2.- you need to keep the monsters busy while you spam your dmg dealer atack: Use pets (dogs with life link also gives more EHP) and templar.
3.- Also helps to keep them together and kinda slowed: Unbreakable Grasp is good for it.
4.- Since you are probably only changing your main hand, you are not going to loose that much DPS, so u can play w/out soul harvest.
5.- Since you are back to your Zuni helm, and probably will use a SoJ, then SA would be a better choice than VQ. Then you release widowmakers and can use ZB xD
I tested this last nite: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#RgZUTY!fbc!aZaZcb
Even when a mob escaped from the CC and tanks (MP8) it got feared by WoS, so i keep spamming it.
Wanna test it together?, maybe we can group up tonite.
Edited by Tango#1978 on 8/7/2013 9:49 AM PDT
Just a quick addition after some basic testing. Any mana regeneration supplied by rush of essence is multiplied by vision quest. Whereas the mana regeneration provided by honoured guest is not multiplied by vision quest but rather treated additively.
I didn't bother to test other options like rain dance, but the additional mana created by combining these two passives is useful knowledge when figuring out how much attack speed you can support.
I know you are a bears fan, but maybe if u swift bears for PB, you wont even need WoS.
I was testing last night this:
Fear from EF, Stun from gloves and TotD and freeze from THW
I read about PB procing a lot of fetiches from Fetysh Sycophants, and they r the key to get mobs bussy
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