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It's the item we want. Gold is merely a tool to get it.
If we had a gold sink that allowed us to "increase" (Mystic) our chance of getting a similar item (by playing the game), most of us would be fine with it. If we didn't need an overwhelming amount of gold, people would care less about being able to sell or buy items, as long as they can obtain what they want themselves.
I tend to agree with the original poster on this matter.
It seems regardless of how long or often you play the Legendary or Rare drops are far from whats expected.
I understand the point of a legendary item is to be rare and less common, but they are absolutely useless when a player can easily get another item which has equal or greater stats than the one generated or dropped.
A good example is that of my first HC character, I got a legendary bow drop. and after identification turned out the legendary item was of lesser statistical value than the rare crossbow I had equipped at the time.
I would like to take the opportunity to point out that the Loot 2.0 thread is a fantastic example, (with a bit of refinement) can correct these issues ingame.
I like crafting drops personally (like runes in D2), and at the current state of items in the game, it is strictly the wealth that appeals to me.
If I found an item that would synergize with a specific type or set of skills that opened up an uncommon build opportunity, then there I will be far more inclined to hold on to the item or use it.
Example (slash wishlist)
An tem that reduces the cooldown of Dead Rush when you cast other decay spells (or in general) and allows the zombies to linger up to 10 seconds or attack nearby targets (and while equipped, changes the appearance of zombie dogs to regular zombies)
Edited by Vex#1324 on 7/30/2013 1:03 PM PDT
I think be wealthy is part of any economy in the world. I dont see how shouldnt be the case for diablo 3s economy as well.
Even if you have the best weapons in game and paragon 100 , youll always play to get more and more gold ... and not more and more .. crafts...
Diablo 2 was the same .. farm and farm in order to perfectize your items or just be wealthy.
If you don't mind, I would like to chime in even though I am not the OP.
I personally would like to see the entire crafting scene re-vamped to a point where you can craft things with specific stats, using something like a "demonic essence of strength (strength)" or an "essence of alacrity" which has a chance of dropping off mobs that have the "Fast" Affix. Shielding mobs could drop an "All Resist" version, Reflect Damage could drop a "life steal" version.
That might help players know that if they save up 5 good essences, they will be rolling an item with the stats they want, even if those stats don't roll perfect.
I think you should also dial in the Damage ranges on Legendary and set weapons, so that they are guaranteed to roll in the 1-1200 range for 1handers and 13-1500 for 2 handers, so the deciding factor is secondary stats and they will all be usable as found DMG wise.
I agree the drops are what need to be improved drastically. I hate both AHs, but due to the abhorrent drop rate I have to save up gold and buy gear. I have found less than a dozen items in game worth more than 20million, which Blizzard admits is less than a quarter.
My preference is the Hellfire ring method...some challenging puzzle and epic monster to kill that requires you to get the item .. vs. .. constantly grinding for random drops.
Trading mass quantities of Rals and other low tier runes + Pgems + trash jewels + socketed/white items to players every ladder season I have participated in D2 has always resulted in me decking out 1-3 chars in near the best gear you can get. It did not require me to 'win' the lottery like in D3, trash drops were DESIRED and TRADEABLE. Then again, D2 is a unregulated dupe and botfest....but then again, so is D3 now lol.
Here, you have to win the lottery not once but multiple times just to get one decent item.
Personally, I like the BoA crafting addition; make all item slots with that imo and stop forcing people to use the RMAH.
Edited by fixit#1698 on 7/30/2013 1:43 PM PDT
New sockets that give items a list of added benefits like birth of the dying and all that would be nice in diablo 3, specially if those items are character bound. Though you can make the runes tradable. I also think account bound charms you need to play to get, will give a lot of replay value. A lot of upgrades you can make by playing.
Well I know you devs hate hearing this, but to make the item system better all you really have to do is look at D2....
In D2 you could find an Occulus for example. It may not be godly but someone would like it and find it usefull because it would never roll with completely useless stats. They would always roll the same stats just that it would be RARE to find a perfect one (all stats maxed)
THAT is that you need to do to make this game fun for the legit players! It sucks to find a bad !@# item in D3 just to find out that it would be useless to not just you but ALL PLAYERS.
Say you take a d3 item the Mepho helm. Instead of rolling random stuff make them all roll crit chance, just some roll perfect crit chance and overs roll lower crit chance. Everyone would like finding a mempho this way and it keeps the really rare perfect mepho's rare!
Edited by TimeSpike#1874 on 7/30/2013 2:37 PM PDT
I love these.
My feeling is that the majority of the players seek two things in particular. (Or perhaps I'm just speaking for myself)
The first is to achieve reliable progression through playing the game and spending time playing the game.
The second is to be rewarded with a powerful "OP" character after spending a reasonable amount of time (which I'd put at around the territory of 500-1000 hours)
Playing purely self-found actually does a decent job of giving you the former. You don't take any shortcuts, so barring any unusual lucky or unlucky streaks, one would expect to steadily find upgrades until they get to extremely well rolled gear in every slot, which is unrealistic for anyone to achieve on their own.
It does not, however, grant you the latter. Even after putting hundreds of hours in, you can expect your character to have gaping issues and struggle heavily with the harder content. This is why the majority will either quit, or turn to the auction house. Its no fun playing a character that you know is weak and has little hope of becoming strong if you continue to grind.
And of course, using the auction house opens pandora's box of nearly perfectly rolled gear. Even what most players consider brimstone worthy or "vendor trash" is often gear with better affixes than one could expect to find after hundreds of hours of gameplay. Its easy to get near perfect gear, and everyones' standards become almost unreasonably high. Once you start using the auction house, the only way to progress is through the auction house. It doesn't take most savvy people long to realize that the most effective way to progress through the auction house is not to play the game, but to play the auction house itself.
Crafting is the only outlet in this game which is both somewhat safe from being polluted by the auction house, and also gives you a solid chance at getting legitimately powerful items through actually playing the game. Its not that crafting in itself is particularly fun, its that it very often is a tangible reward for one's farming efforts.
To me personally, I couldn't care less whether I have to craft the item, or instead of a demonic essence, an item drops with equivalent stats to one that I could have crafted. It doesn't matter whether I have to kill elites to get it, or uber bosses, or just a large amount of trash. The key is actually getting some form of upgrade by playing the game.
Now of course, there are a couple of somewhat artificial reasons why archon crafted gear is able to accomplish what drops aren't. The first is that it has a higher level of quality guaranteed. You know that it'll have a high amount of your character's main stat, and that it'll roll ilvl 63 affixes. The second is that this gear is BoA, so the player is sheltered from seeing just how much better gear there is out there, much less trading it.
Too much BoA is problematic in a game that should depend on trading at some level. Plus, there's no need to shy away from the fact that Blizzard needs to support operating costs somehow, so making every piece of gear in the game BoA won't help anyone long term if we want the game to have longevity.
Non-BoA gear has the issue of always being worse than someone else's. When you have to compete against the entire populace of diablo 3, there's no chance that your own drops will hold a candle to what's available by trading. IMHO, it's not completely impossible to solve this problem. The way to solve it is to reduce the gap in effectiveness between great gear (that one could get after a few hundred hours of farming) versus nearly perfect gear (the type that is typical on the auction houses) If the incentive to get every piece of gear on the auction house gets reduced, then far fewer people will feel obligated to spend more time on it than in the game.
For example, my wizard is geared in the odd way where every piece is high-end, but every slot which can have a reasonable crafted piece has one, even if its easy to upgrade through the auction house. Giving up a small amount of effectiveness is more than fine with me as long as it increases my replay value, but I'm not going to go as far as to completely gimp my character by making every slot self-found. If I could have every slot being at roughly the level of crafted gear without using the AH, I certainly would.
It's been beaten to death on these forums and in nearly every developer interview, but the answer is itemization. It's not so much that things are "too random" currently (which the crafted gear attempts to curb by having high stats guaranteed), its that there are so few viable options. As Travis Day (if i recall correctly) himself said, as it is now, a 6 property sword needs to have all 6 random properties be the "best" ones for players to even consider it. When the odds are stacked like that, there's little recourse.
For example, there is a recent thread in the barb forums about the burning axe of sankis, which has fire skills dealing 25% more damage. That's quite a significant amount. Unfortunately, barbarians don't have any good fire skills, and even if they did, 25% would still be completely outweighed by the usual crit damage + socket + % damage affixes. If a weapon like that were even 80% as effective as a typical socket + cd weapon, as opposed to being likely 10% as effective at best, it's likely that a lot more people would be using one.
There will always be plenty of "high end" players dedicated to hitting the highest numbers on the server, and for them, massing wealth and buying the best items will always be a priority, and there's nothing wrong with that. But your average gamer shouldn't be pigeonholed into going that route just to play the game effectively. And that's the real problem.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 7/30/2013 3:26 PM PDT
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