Diablo® III

Why?

07/30/2013 05:51 PMPosted by Ravlaor
I don't want to sidetrack the conversation to much, but one of the things I'm seeing repeated in this thread (and others) is that the stat range in gear has to wide of a gap. That's one of the specific itemization adjustments that developers have been spending time on, and would influence the item hunt in a positive way.


The problem Grimiku is not just really the gap stats wise:

The "power" our char possess comes solely from gear whereas it should've been mixed with customization systems outside the gear hunt, one's that you can use gold to get. You know... grinding game, RPG.
So, if you want to become powerful you have to play the game not the GAH/RMAH. We need this equation gear = power to be reinvented. We can't solely depend on gear to provide us power. It cheapens the RPG experience.

Edit: I'm not advocating for the return of skill trees, nor stats alocation. Quite franquly, the way the game's designed it would be pointless. It wouldn't add choice. What I truly want is more choice and more uniqueness on how I build my char and how it turns out.

You guys at blizz (technically Blizz North) invented a whole new genre of games with the Diablo branch. I think you people are quite capable of putting up new customization systems. Systems that appeal for both casual players and gives the depth that we more hardcore, D2 vets want. So far hardcore people have come with the short end of the stick. This game is an awesome action game, aesthetically unique (I prefer D2 but I don't dislike D3's looks at all), but it severly lacks the R.P.G. that made Diablo games distinguish themselves from the rest.


+1
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
15905
Posts: 2,849
My Point:
It is damn near imposable to gather enough gold to be able to afford atleast one item worth billion and up by playing the game. With 2 million kills I never found an item that was worth more then 200 million. I refuse to use real money but I do want to own atleast 1 item that is considered elite by getting it legit.


If you don't mind, I'd like to ask for a little clarification. Would you like for a very high end weapon to specifically drop, or would it be ok if you obtained one of these weapons through another method? (crafting as an example) Is it the item itself, or the financial wealth that is more appealing to you?

*edit* I'm interested in everyone's feedback on this subject, so feel free to chime in even if you're not the op.


I'd like them to be crazily rare, with increasing droprates as their quality decreases, without every single other weapon in the world that's ever dropped at my fingertips at any point in time. AKA remove the AH, improve itemization = victory.
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To give an example, Marvel Heroes is doing this just great. Player feels more powerful as they gain more levels.

In Diablo3, people feels powerful by just equipping that GG end game gear and paragon levels doesn't even matter.


it just largely an illusion. YOU do not see what the top geared people have (cos they haven't deployed their ah yet)

. the kind of people full set of cosmic bulwark gear with max drop rarity/special item find and (50% chance of invulnerability everytime you get hit) with 100% dodge ..

the kind that run red t3 doom in the time you run red t3 doom and literally spin to win.. or run 5 cow portals every 30 minutes.

while its true the ratio of power of marvel heroes in terms of gear vs character is more skewed towards character, I find it gets boring too as well. the number of builds that skill can create is just that limited and obvious by the time you hit 40, very few gear choices you make can actually change builds, at the most they offset some of your skill choices (eg: getting 100% dodge on gear means you can offset hp recovery skills)
Edited by chrisloup#6305 on 7/31/2013 2:33 AM PDT
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07/30/2013 12:47 PMPosted by Grimiku
If you don't mind, I'd like to ask for a little clarification. Would you like for a very high end weapon to specifically drop, or would it be ok if you obtained one of these weapons through another method? (crafting as an example) Is it the item itself, or the financial wealth that is more appealing to you?


Drop or crafting (or upgrading it via Mystic), i don't really care about other alterantives. I only care about the items, currency is just a way acquire them. I play, i find gold, i use it to upgrade gems, to craft. But I would like to see a gambler, with unidentified items in his stock a chance for legendary and set. Stores are just for show.

Some or lot (doesn't really matter) of people traded in D2, but that doesn't mean everybody want to. Also not everybody want horde gold just to be rich or sell it for real money, but when hording gold becomes almost the primary way to acquire good items, then i see it as problem.

I would like to find a pair of boots with intelligece, armor, all resistance, movement speed and with or without vitality on it, but what are the chances that i find one with those affixes, and that they roll relatively high too. Too many RNG on RNG on RNG on ... and MF only influence one of those RNGs.

Upgrading items would be very welcomed. Mystic could harvest only 1 affix from an item (for a price of course), i pick up a blue weapon has 50 intelligence on it, she could convert it into 1 int material or point, if it is a yellow item it would convert 50 into 2 points. Or every affix could have a value, and just "salvaging" an item would give us points, with those points we could construct weapons/armors.

Don't care about items becoming BoA either.
Edited by ssanyesz#2866 on 7/31/2013 3:49 AM PDT
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The only way this wouldn't be a clone of the Archon crafts would to be introduce a complex system of crafting materials. Certain materials for Strength crafts, certain materials for Crit Damage, etc etc with some common overlaps to prevent clutter in inventories.


That would be good too.
Edited by ssanyesz#2866 on 7/31/2013 3:49 AM PDT
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Well Nelly i know your pain i got the same question "Why?"
idk how ppl have so much gold [like me im so poor i cant even buy a some poor item]never use RMAH and i will not use it
Oh i wish AH an RMAH never exist only Trade Window
But Nelly you look bether then my char :)
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07/30/2013 11:42 PMPosted by Darkul
I don't mean to be rude, but I often find items that could easily replace most items on your monk. In fact, a few of your items look like brimstones to me. Just saying...


You're lucky then, but not everyone wins the lottery.

I wish i could find good items too. :)
Edited by ssanyesz#2866 on 7/31/2013 5:19 AM PDT
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If you don't mind, I'd like to ask for a little clarification. Would you like for a very high end weapon to specifically drop, or would it be ok if you obtained one of these weapons through another method? (crafting as an example) Is it the item itself, or the financial wealth that is more appealing to you?

*edit* I'm interested in everyone's feedback on this subject, so feel free to chime in even if you're not the op.
Id like all items to worth something

"breaking" white items to generate a "white dust"
using the "white dust" to get a blue item

"breaking" blue items to generate a "blue dust"
using the "blue dust" to get a yellow item

and so forth
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"Chiming in"

I like the idea of randomness in the item stats, thats whats rewarding when you actually find something useful to someone. I want to see item removal via binding. The amount of gold/items compared to the number of players is constantly rising without any means to cycle out old gear.

I've been handing gear down to friends who recently hit 60, because of the rising gold costs of items. Not necessarily to compete with the game, but more to compete with the geared players they will be coming across in game.
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07/30/2013 09:06 PMPosted by norock
We need a good, balanced game NOT a trading game.


Diablo has always been about trading, you can't deny that side of the game. The problem is balancing the trade, not appending it.
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Well, the problem with good items isn't that they don't come by, but that people playing AH and RMAH put them beyond the typical player's reach.

In essence, it's a economical problem. More gold per hour flows into the system than good items. Good items are the product of players gaming hours, while those gold trades in RMAH... well, we all know. Simply, gold trade value goes down continuously as it flows faster than goods into the economy.

Then, no matter how much drops' quality is improved, it doesn't fix the problem: Lack of control of gold injection into the economy. Sure we all want better items and better chances to get them, or mechanisms that allow us to get them if we play more but is healthier for a game, as a whole, when its economy isn't suffering from inflation.

As it is now, there is no way that an average player can have access to good enough items in AH, because the gold he can make from gold drops and vendor sells remains the same as months ago, while the total amount of gold in the system increases continuously. Then, he must buy gold in RMAH and the problem grows bigger.

I'd suggest to tie the amount of gold an account can have access to the gaming hours and, or, the experience acumulated in the characters. If a player sells or buys gold in excess to his current limit, he'll have to play more or earn more experience to unlock those funds. The idea being to slow down the injection of gold in the economy while, at the same time, to promote the "production" of new good items, avoiding the inflation. Blizzard lowered the effectivity of attack speed, they can do the same with the amount of gold accounts have access to. Same principle... unless they want people using RMAH. If so... would you please give us old attack speed back?, it won't hurt the game more than the gold from RMAH and will surely make people that PLAY this game happier.

I read people complaining about better drops. When we all get better drops, then they are better no more, but average. I do dislike getting monk helms with 200 intel and no dex, but mostly because it happens often and the time involved in picking it up and id it is just a waste; that should be fixed, imho. But is also nonsense that someone having +2 million kills lacks a foolproof mechanism to translate all those hours into endgame items of his/her choice. There should be reward, something like a craft recipe, to unlock every half a million kills and some billions experience points; something a player can customize like a search query in AH (a quiver with guaranteed +300 dex, +300 vit, 10 CC, 20 speed and 10 disc, for example). At any rate, related to the time the player devotes to hack and loot and his success at it, as opposed to forcing players into flipping and double wielding credit cards as the only intelligent option to improve the chars.

To the OP, I hear ya. Some thousands gaming hours here, and just a couple I've been offered above 2 bill. And I didn't sell them, of course; I want the items and the story related to the drops.
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I'm just tired of finding ilvl 63 weapons with 200ish Str/Dex/Int, CD, OS, LS or LoH... and then 300dps.

NEVER have I found a weapon in 1,000 hours with those kinds of stats in the 1k+ dps range. Never. Ever. Hell, not even 700+. But I find plenty in the 300dps range...

That is the "gap" we are talking about. The minimum rolls on items are just way, way too low. That goes for ALL items, not just weapons. That, and as has been pointed out time and time again, there's too many useless affixes and not enough useFUL affixes. Our chances of rolling weapons with both GOOD dps and useful affixes are already slim-to-none. Our chances are destroyed even further by the countless possible combinations of just crap affixes ON TOP of the large gap in dps possibilities.

A lot of rare weapons can roll between 300ish and 1300ish dps. Shrink this gap substantially! (by bringing the minimum UP, obviously, not the maximum down) And do as you say you're going to do with the affixes and combos.
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My Point:
It is damn near imposable to gather enough gold to be able to afford atleast one item worth billion and up by playing the game. With 2 million kills I never found an item that was worth more then 200 million. I refuse to use real money but I do want to own atleast 1 item that is considered elite by getting it legit.


If you don't mind, I'd like to ask for a little clarification. Would you like for a very high end weapon to specifically drop, or would it be ok if you obtained one of these weapons through another method? (crafting as an example) Is it the item itself, or the financial wealth that is more appealing to you?

*edit* I'm interested in everyone's feedback on this subject, so feel free to chime in even if you're not the op.

I'll go after this.

Drop vs. crafting vs wealth
If I had to choose, I'd say I'd prefer a drop over crafting. I don't want to sit around crafting thousands of items just to get the one I want. I don't want a crafting game, but I do want a game that has meaningful crafting. I don't want this stuff all as BOA either, if it's BOA then I'm already not doing it. I've pretty much crafted nothing beyond 30-40 ammies. Sure I could get some stuff but like I said I don't want to sit around crafting stuff. I've kept a ton of mats in case I feel like it at some point, but I want to kill stuff and get loot not craft stuff.

Drop vs crafting Part 2
I do however favor the ability to craft up my gear to continually add stats to an item, like I find a sword and it has everything but a socket. Add one.. or I find a helm and it has everything but CC, add CC. But not just a pathetic 3%CC but a chance at 6% or maybe it's already got 3% and I can add 3%cc to it for X amount of gold. Or maybe it's missing resist all so I can add that for x amount of gold. But I think blizz will screw this up too. I mean think about this, why would I ever craft up a rare items for example if I can never get it close to something like a mempo? I wouldn't, like I said, it has to be meaningful in terms of power...aka dps.

The core problem
But, for myself it isn't even about getting that one drop really and frankly even one per year (about how long we've played) is vastly short of what I'd want to see anyway. It's a core problem of the game in that everything doesn't work together. We literally can pick up piles gold around what 4000-5000, vendor items are 1000-3000 each and even legendaries top out around 4000-5000 gold and yet all the items that Nelly is talking about are billions. And that is the heart of the problem. The gap is just monstrously huge. From the start people are basically encouraged to use a credit card or flip items gaming the AH. The fact is there is no legitimate way to obtain billions of gold. By legitimate I mean playing the game, not flipping, not dual wielding credit cards. Because of the Auction house gold actually is the currency, which is fine.

I personally think upping the vendor value of legendaries would help, I know people say that will just bring more gold into the economy, but honestly nothing brings in more gold than a credit card and really it only brings more in if people vendor their legendaries which most don't they brimstone them. This would also work to set a bottom end price for brimstones, which would remove more money from the economy when they were bought on the AH as the more they cost the more gold removed thru the 15% fee. No gold sink will keep up with a credit card, buying gold never should have been allowed, it is really a huge problem that I think no one realizes and maybe it should be removed for an expansion.

I don't think there really is a way to just bring more money to the new guy without also bringing it to the guy at the top, and I really think that is a problem.
Edited by AxeLord#1992 on 7/31/2013 7:03 AM PDT
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The biggest problem that I see with the itemization is that the Affixes that items can roll are so unbalanced in term of power. An affix like crtical hit damage is so much more powerfull than other affixes that it becomes almost mandatory for it to roll in every slot that it can. What happens is that there end up being no "extra" affix slots where you would have to choose which affix you want= no customization. We have 6 affixes on every piece of gear but we don't have much choice on which 6 affixes we can use. Even when you get lucky and find an item that rolls the "proper" affixes the range that these can roll is enormous. This creates a huge gap in the effectiveness of different players even though they use the same exact items and skill setup.

I don't really think it is possible to make all the affixes completely balanced, and I don't think that they really should be. "Thorns" should not be as powerful as "crit damage", but it should not actually be a bad thing to have. My solution would be to put some caps on certain affixes and limit which affixes are allowed to roll together on the same item. This would create "empty" affix slots where any affix could roll and still be desirable. You could stack thorns if you wanted to without completely ruining your characters effectiveness. This is they way that D2 did it and it worked very well IMO. You had options this way, a piece of gear wasn't automatically garbage because it did not have a particular affix since you could reach the cap without having it roll on every piece of gear.
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07/31/2013 07:01 AMPosted by Dirk
An affix like crtical hit damage is so much more powerfull than other affixes that it becomes almost mandatory

No no, it is mandatory if you want to do any real damage. But the only reason you need to do real damage is because Inferno isn't balanced with the rest of the game. I mean you have a nice steady progression from normal to hell then inferno jump up by a factor of 10. They should adjust Inferno to be along the same progression as normal to hell and then adjust crit damage and the likes downward to match.

Think about it, you go from monsters with a million life to monsters with like 175 million?? It's out of whack because they wanted to make it hard and just ramped up the numbers. Terrible design in my opinion.
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Messerschmidt's Reaver - Diablo 2 version

Two-Hand Damage: 177 To (283-514)
Required Level: 70
Required Strength: 167
Required Dexterity: 59
Durability: 75
Weapon Speed: [-10]
+200% Enhanced Damage
+ (2.5 Per Character Level) 2-247% Enhanced Maximum Damage (Based On Character Level)
Adds 20-240 Fire Damage
100% Bonus To Attack Rating
+15 To All Attributes

Messerschmidt's Reaver - Diablo 3 version

652.4–1365.2
Damage Per Second
(535–911)–(770–1819) Damage
1.00 Attacks per Second
+87–173 Minimum Damage
+116–381 Maximum Damage
+(66–316)–(154–727) Fire Damage
+26–30% Damage
+122–131 Strength
+122–131 Dexterity
+122–131 Intelligence
+122–131 Vitality
+3 Random Magic Properties

Here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Notice how much smaller the gap is in damage ranges for the Diablo 2 version of Messerschmidt's Reaver over the Diablo 3 version? The difference is HUGE!

EDIT: By no means am I suggesting this is a good weapon either way. Skorn is obviously better in pretty much every way because of the guaranteed socket. But even Skorn's maximum damage ranges from 1100ish all the way up to 1800ish. Just too large of a gap making the lower-rolled ones pretty much instant brimstones. Even more so if those lower dps ones lack life steal.
Edited by TheMoj#1726 on 7/31/2013 7:17 AM PDT
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I actually like how the drops are at the moment.

I don't want to be showered in awesome loot and the few awesome items I find make up for the crap loot because they're still worth vendoring... except white items... wtf is up with white items?
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My Point:
It is damn near imposable to gather enough gold to be able to afford atleast one item worth billion and up by playing the game. With 2 million kills I never found an item that was worth more then 200 million. I refuse to use real money but I do want to own atleast 1 item that is considered elite by getting it legit.


If you don't mind, I'd like to ask for a little clarification. Would you like for a very high end weapon to specifically drop, or would it be ok if you obtained one of these weapons through another method? (crafting as an example) Is it the item itself, or the financial wealth that is more appealing to you?

*edit* I'm interested in everyone's feedback on this subject, so feel free to chime in even if you're not the op.


For me (and I assume causal players), the gold inflation essentially makes it impossible to do anything but self found. I have 550,000 kills, 22,000 elite kills. I have never sold anything on the GAH for more than 10 million gold. I've never had more than 50 million in my bank.

While I do enjoy the rng aspect, and I certainly don't want things handed out on a silver platter (elite gear should be elite gear...period), I'm pretty sure than any upgrade I get from now on will have to be found by myself. Given the fact that a player can farm 1000 hours before getting a weapon better than the ones I have now, I doubt my Monk will ever improve from this day forward.
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