Get the Desktop App for Battle.net Now
- All your games in 1 place
- Log in once
- Automatic game updates
Okay, I’m writing this to reduce a few confusion we have in the community.
EDIT: added a section of skill selection on the bottom
This is an underrated skill when a player does not know how to use it. This skill is not better than any one of your other passive that adds to your sheet damage: Stead Aim, Cull the Weak, Archery with bow. But it does add to you edps by increasing your chance to deal a “higher” damage through critical hits.
Confusion #1: shsh is better when you have low cc
This skill is pretty useless when you have low cc simply because players can critically hit once every 5-6 seconds with 2.01 aps and 5% base cc. You will very likely see one critical hit per second if you have 30% cc regardless of your aps. Slotting in shsh will adds 3% and another 3% per second, after 5-6 seconds you gain 18-21% cc but your likelihood of critically hit is not much different compare when you are not using it. And you are also wasting the skill as you will never see the skill perform what it is designed for.
Other Option to boost your cc w/o shsh
Archery: Bolt Pistol (1hand) +10%
Caltrops = Bait the Trap +10%
These will out preform what you see with shsh if you have around 30% or under 30%
Confusion #2: shsh is useless when you got a high cc
Like I said, with 30% cc you will see critical hits every 1-2 seconds, so increasing this number to 50 or 60 will insure you to critically hit every 1 seconds. Therefore there is no need for that 3% extra cc when you already have a lot. I agree there is no need for that 3% but shsh is never wasted and gets better the more cc you have on your demon hunter. This skill is only useless when you have a base cc of 100%.
You like to see more 1-shotting then shsh is your best friend. To 1-shot everything in inferno (in all MP?) you must hit your targets with a critical hit. Stacking cc and cd on your demon hunter will always increase your profile dps but it does not increase your edps if you do not critically hit. Shsh will guarantee that your next attack will have a higher chance to critically hit than your current one if it does not.
The beauty of this skill is that it allows you to stack damage at 100% cc and deal burst damage to everything in your damage area. So it has a cooldown scaling with your unbuffed cc. If you are at 50% then it is 16 seconds,
60% = 13 sec,
65% = 11 sec,
70% = 9 sec,
75% = 8 sec.
No time is wasted when you have shsh slotted. When you walk to your next targets you gain cc, when you pickup item off the ground you gain cc, when you run from you enemies you gain cc, when you shot from range with slow projections you gain cc (before it hits), when you set down traps you gain cc (before they arm or become activate), etc… Every time when you stop dealing damage you gain cc so your next stream of attacks will only take seconds to demolish your enemies.
Shsh work better when you have a high cc (over 50%, recommend over 60%) and a high aps (over 1.88).
IMO if you want to use shsh, it is a requirement to gear up for high cc/cd and high aps so you can stack as many attacks as possible before you land any damage on your enemies and start to see a rain of yellow numbers.
--- ---- --- --- ---- --- --- ---- --- --- ---- --- --- ---- ---
Some Ways to Unitize shsh in Combat
Set Traps, let them blow
Set Caltrops wait until they end
Set Traps, let them blow
The time lag with Caltrops (rec 2-3) will gather mobs that are still surviving/coming towards you after the initial attacks. This 5-6 sec translate to +15-18% cc. Lay a new sets of Trap behind your Caltrops. If time properly you will be at full Hatred and Discipline when you move to the next pack.
Fire off Hunger Arrow
Fire off Cluster Arrow/Mulitshot
The travel time on HA is about 0.8 sec and CA/MS is about 0.3 sec. This is a much quicker attack/reload and will require extreme aps to stack up burst damage.
List of Builds on this post by players like you.
The list is in the order of posting, no rating is given.
Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 11/3/2013 9:05 PM PST
No. ShSh IS better when you have lower crit chance.
At 2 APS with 25% crit chance there will be times when you go for 2-3 seconds without critting. They may be infrequent, but statistically with low crit chance you will go longer without critting. Therefore ShSh will boost your crit chance more with lower crit chance.
With higher crit chance you'll crit more often and ShSh will rarely increase your crit chance beyond the 3%.
Mathematically, and logically, ShSh is better with lower crit chance.
I understand ShSh benefits more from walking, picking up loot, travelling, etc, etc, than anything, but lower crit chance players DO see more benefit from ShSh when in combat. Sure, it isn't that much more because they're still probably only going to average maybe 1-3% more CC in combat than someone with high crit chance, but technically ShSh is better for players with lower crit chance.
I think you don't get it. You are not benefiting for shsh when you have a low base cc. You are only benefiting from its cc bonus which you can grab from gears when you get to inferno.
shsh allow player to deal burst damage at 100% cc for 1 second. This is main reason why I decide to write this up because people are not aware that shsh can do that.
If you are always attacking:
at 2.00 APS and 25% - you get after 2 sec (statistically, you should crit once) = 31% for 1 sec
at 2.00 APS and 50% - you get after 1 sec (statistically, you should crit once) = 53% for 1 sec
at 2.00 APS and 75% - you get after less than 1 sec = 78% for 1 sec
The only way you will get a lot of damage is when you have High AS and high CC (or wait to have high CC with ShSh) because you will shoot more Arrow during the 1 sec.
If your AS is low, for exemple 1.00 AS (lol), shsh is really bad.
During the fight, low CC player will benifit more from ShSh (because they don't crit each sec), but between each fight (walking, pic up loot...)high CC player will get more benifit because they will be at 100% faster and can Attack few time (APS) at 100% CC.
I think you are both right, but APS is the key!
You can use this build, which was used like an year ago @_@... before 1.03 patch
1. Smoke Screen - Lingering Fog
2. Cluster Arrow - No Rune?
3. Fan of Knives - Hail of Knives
4. Preparation - Backup Plan
L. Evasive Fire - Covering Fire
R. Spike Trap - Scatter
Passives - Sharpshooter, Tactical Advantage, Archery
Should be viable set up still to use with sharpshooter, since this build is focused on one time bust damage for very short period of time.
It is the choice that we make. What I have written is my point of view and my suggestions. And I do hope people look at shsh outside of that growing cc bonus it has.
The build Yes.
Your gear not really. Right now you are sitting under 50% with archery. I have done the cc testing myself even skills like RF and strafe will benefit from shsh more than the 1hand Archery bonus. It makes a huge difference from each step until you hit 70%. From my experience:
30 < 40 < 50 < 60 < 65 < 70 ~= 75%
I would work around to this build
I don't know how much you are into JS but it can replace vault and still proc CtW. RoV for the 24 yards burst damage to everything inside, most fun to play when you have 100% cc imo. My main attack will be HA and RoV, multishot will be used at the end of your burst cycle.
Grab a 6% and high dex Nat Sight instead of that Mempo, unless you are going to shot for a 6cc Mempo and keep the aps. And craft a new bracer with higher cc and dex if you have a chance.
Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 8/8/2013 7:22 PM PDT
^This if you never plan to build around a setup for that 100% cc burst. I only started to play with a Manticore lately. I was using a Calamity with shsh and a trap setup.
Thing is an extra 3% isn't warrant a slot. You're saying that:
nah, that higher chance which translates to extra 3% isn't really worth it. coupled with the increase mob density shsh becomes irrelevant when a player have like high cc
It really depends on your build. If you are constantly outputting a stream of attacks and vault right to your next target, like what most people do in a VotA run then no, don't use shsh.
If you only see the +3% cc per second then no it is not worth using it over Archery when you got a bolt pistol equipped. But when you are around 60% cc without Archery I would recommend everyone to try shsh and see the result for themselves. For me I see more yellow numbers with shsh so I prefer 60%+3%+3%/sec and not 60%+10%.
shsh is like CE (Custom Engineering) and Grenadier you need to build your skill list around it to benefit from the passive.
Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 8/8/2013 9:54 PM PDT
I assume more CC would not yield similar gain at say 50CC. Decreasing gain is the word I suppose.
Correct me if i'm wrong but my understanding is that shsh resets every 2 seconds with what you just wrote. If so, how is 66CC better than 70CC???
but yeah I agree that probably gotta give it a try to see the results. Too bad internet is crap here and I can't really play.
Tried this with SteveC's build and it really works.
I only did it at low MP though since gearing for high CC + high Mitigation is kinda hard..
Anyways.. build I made revolved around ShSh's 1sec reset.. Having BOTH Archery and ShSh granted me 78%(base) crit chance.
3 APS on a Calamity. It will take 7sec at least to get to 100%.
The build revolves around Spike Trap, with 3 APS, you can lay down 3 below a second and would all explode WITHIN the 1second limit of ShSh.
Jagged Spikes are there with Gloom(or some other rune) to help with LS. Valley can be used or substituted but it's nice for additional damage since you did lose Steady Aim.
Razor Disk with -9 Chakram Cost is there just to be used whenever you just want to.
Retaliate is there, since once you get swarmed, you pop it the moment your FIRST Spike explodes so that it'll also be within the 1sec time frame.
Build can really be fine tuned more but you'll see the use of it.
It can be called a "fun build" or whatever.. but it works.. Kirus' ShSh build works too.. It highly depends on your Gear and a big Discipline pool is highly recommended.
shsh adds +3% by default, and another 3% after 1 second of no crit, so in combat without stopping it is form 63-66% but still lower than 70%. Your chance to proc crit is already over 60%, it is now like rolling a dice and get every thing except for 1 and 6, so your chance to crit per tick is ~= 2/3. Doesn't matter you are at 63% or 70%, you are going to crit very often.
The real difference being critically hitting a lot or critically hit all at once. Both skills will crit a lot, but shsh also adds an extra bonus on top of its 3% cc. It can become 100% so your "first attack" will hit all and crit on all.
It takes me 2-5 seconds to the next mob even with vault, and depending on how many item I pick off the ground it might even take longer. If I decide to gather some monster before I start any attack that will crit then I'm winding up my cc to 100%. Lets say 2 seconds then it is
4-7 sec = 12-21 or 15-24 including the base 3%. with 60% cc it become 75-84% which is much higher than what you will ever get with Archery alone. This is the main reason behind seeing more yellow number, and it gets even better when you got to 100% and load up the screen with 3-4 ball lightning, vault in and release RoV.
Will shsh benefit party play as much as what you can see solo will depend on your build.
With a build like this
you have to run up laying down JS and Sentry, turn around when you think you got to 100% cc and blast them with Ball Lightning or any other hatred spender with a good aoe.
build idea stolen from ActionKungfu after following behind his tracks of dead monsters.
Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 8/8/2013 11:29 PM PDT
Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.
Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.
Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.