Diablo® III

ShocknadoCannon -The Definitive Guide

01/22/2014 06:21 PMPosted by MOBAjobg
By running Swordplosism V1.3 build for the past few months, I've discovered that it has not brought out the best of Glass Cannon however, I've made an accidental discovery a few weeks ago and came up with ShockNadoGlass, ...requires ~4400armor, ~835ar, 50k hp, 2.76aps, 20apoc, ls and dps >300k (all values unbuff).

Imho, it's endgame of CM Wizard build.
ShockNadoGlass
Active Skills
Energy Twister -Wicked Wind
Teleport -Wormhole
Diamond Skin -Crystal Shell (Correct, not Diamond Shards)
Frost Nova -Deep Freeze
Explosive Blast -Chain Reaction
Storm Armor -Shocking Aspect

Passive Skills
Critical Mass
Glass Cannon (Evocation is unnecessary)
Cold Blooded


http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/10311941521#1

Knock yourself out MOBA.

Glass SNS. Also, dropping diamond shards is around 10-15% loss in effective DPS, since your losing all the procs and because it does a lot of your DPS during windup.

Glass cannon = 15% boost in effective dps @ a cost of 10% mitigation.

Your net with crystal shell + Glass cannon ?

DPS is a LOSS, because of loss of EVOCATION which is 5-10% of your effective DPS not to mention cool down reduction for saving your life.

You will lose skill cool down, APOC per second, DPS, ETC. from using your spec (crystal shell + glass cannon)

You gain extra EHP from crystal shell. And 10% mitigation without crystal shell ?

Totally pointless.

Your better off running diamond shards and evocation. You will have better actual EHP and DPS, period.

EDIT: Also this was publicly "discovered" on the forums by Aphreall back in the day around 1.07. It was not recognized as more effective then STANDARD SNS, hence, no one uses it.
Edited by Boozor#1433 on 1/22/2014 7:42 PM PST
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@Boozor

I've been playing SnG for a few weeks and am satisfied as it's faster by ~5% than SnS w/o making any change to my gearing and weaponry.

I can't go back to SnS.

SnG is viable now more than ever however must hit the stats requirement that I've listed in my earlier post.

Why not invite me to a few VoTA map rounds and then see for yourself?
Edited by MOBAjobg#6966 on 1/22/2014 7:54 PM PST
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@ Moba

There are hard numbers and there are "feelings"

Your going off "feeling" and I'm sure ~5% is a number you randomly pulled out of no where.

Put your full profile in this: http://d3cmww.com/

Will you the best #s you can possibly generate with each set up. Shard/ evo will be better then GC/shell from a DPS standpoint.

Doesn't even cover the EHP advantage shard/evo has over GC/shell.
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@Boozor

Theory and practical does not mix well.

The health of elites drops faster evidently (can see it with my own eyes) when using SnG instead of SnS.
Edited by MOBAjobg#6966 on 1/22/2014 8:02 PM PST
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I'm not saying it does not work.

I'm saying it is WORSE then Standard SNS, hence no one uses it even thought it was publicly spoken about over a year ago.

I have no argument that your build works perfectly fine in VOTA/ whatever that is not what i'am saying.

Also, what are you afraid of ?

You have a ton of LOH and Life steal on your sword. Also with ~850 AR and over 4k armor. There is no reason you should be running without shards anyways.

Seriously.
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Actually Glass is better in short fights because of the burst damage, but during longer fights, which are more important, Shards+Evo is obviously better due to better proc, period. So it depends on your style, if you kill whites mostly, then yeah Glass makes senses because it can KO them in the first few EBs, but if you also care about elites or farm DEs, then Shards is wayyy better.

Just saying.
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01/22/2014 08:01 PMPosted by Boozor
I'm not saying it does not work.

I'm saying it is WORSE then Standard SNS, hence no one uses it even thought it was publicly spoken about over a year ago.

I have no argument that your build works perfectly fine in VOTA/ whatever that is not what i'am saying.

Also, what are you afraid of ?

You have a ton of LOH and Life steal on your sword. Also with ~850 AR and over 4k armor. There is no reason you should be running without shards anyways.

Seriously.

hehehe, I gotcha ...so I can use Diamond Skin -Diamond Shards!? but I think it's a no-no for uber killfest as I'd found out the hard way when doing a carry with Ryoka, perhaps I need to l2p better.
Edited by MOBAjobg#6966 on 1/22/2014 8:07 PM PST
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01/22/2014 08:01 PMPosted by Platinum
Actually Glass is better in short fights because of the burst damage, but during longer fights, which are more important, Shards+Evo is obviously better due to better proc, period. So it depends on your style, if you kill whites mostly, then yeah Glass makes senses because it can KO them in the first few EBs, but if you also care about elites or farm DEs, then Shards is wayyy better.

Just saying.

@Platinum

You said it right, ...trash targets were terminated noticeably faster.
Edited by MOBAjobg#6966 on 1/22/2014 8:09 PM PST
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01/22/2014 07:56 PMPosted by Boozor
There are hard numbers and there are "feelings"


I always went with "feeling". and boozer always scolded me.

I don't know...number, feeling...have tried every possible combination.

In the end, number does not lie.

Off the topic, my feeling is that 170k sns wiz is better than "non" wotb 220k ww/hota barb.

What do you think?
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so many acronyms my head asplode
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Moba, there's a couple of glaring issues with what you are doing/claiming that I'd like to address.

#1) At the height of my gearset, I was 90.7% mitigation 335,000 DPS, 62.5% Crit, 2.5BP, 1123 LoH, 4250 Armor, 970 AR. That's what a beast looks like on paper.

#2) These stats were WITH Glass Cannon on...so my mit AR, All Res stats posted above, those are dampened by Glass Cannon and STILL above 90.5% mitigation.

The highest output of the version you are describing is Diamond Shards + Glass Cannon...and that will work for everything, including Ubers, if you have the gear to handle it for one, but also, if you have the Crit Chance to compensate/mitigate the loss of Evocation (of which there truly is no REAL compensation for). No Safe Passage, no Evocation - just Glass Cannon, CM, and Cold Blooded.

What will really cook your noodle, is a variation that I came up with that removed ALL LoH from my gear...no LS on the weapon...no life regeneration on gear of any kind...except for Blood Magic replacing Diamond Skin entirely. tDPS of that build out DPS'ed the tDPS of its more "balanced" counterpart, for MY wizard. That variation was 410k+ DPS. Essentially, All I did was replace my zuni trifecta LoH, Nats Trifecta with LoH, and BT pants, with pure DPS counterparts. My Mitigation came from other pieces of existing gear, like my zuni chest, GGGGGGGG gloves, and GG crafted Bracers. That's innovation. I got all my sustain from Blood Magic...and it worked just fine.
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Similar to what Aimless was suggesting for party runs. Drop shards for slow time in that case. The damage output should be a little bit higher than SNS. Definitely would need top-class mit though.
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01/23/2014 10:14 AMPosted by silverfire
top-class mit though


I remember that being my motivation to develop the variation. I had all this mitigation, gobs and gobs of it, and I really wasn't UTILIZING it. Boozor (I've said this before) once asked me, "Melkor, why did you gear mitigation heavy and turn on Glass Cannon? Why not just gear with less mitigation, more dps on the gear, and free that third passive up?"

I had no answer for a long time - but I did eventually take advantage of all that mitigation, with the above mentioned variant.

Now I applaud MOBA for creating something of his own - but I must say - your claim has to match the math. My claim was extremely specific - "Total DPS output of my SNB will outDPS the highest 'safely geared' SNS, Mempo/Chants set up on me. I didn't claim that skill swapping to my load out was more edps/tdps. I claimed that I could GEAR differently first, then swap skills, and then end up doing more tDPS than anyone ever could running Chants/Mempo SNS. That was factual (ran it through simulators + timed kills)
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I know it's totally fine, but 2.5 still bugs me lol especially if you are using Chant.
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This is not even a "discovery" and nice semi necro.
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01/23/2014 06:04 PMPosted by Liquid
This is not even a "discovery" and nice semi necro.


I just think about that. Why do we need to argue this matter when CM's gone in 2 months lol
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01/23/2014 09:05 AMPosted by Melkor
Moba, there's a couple of glaring issues with what you are doing/claiming that I'd like to address.

#1) At the height of my gearset, I was 90.7% mitigation 335,000 DPS, 62.5% Crit, 2.5BP, 1123 LoH, 4250 Armor, 970 AR. That's what a beast looks like on paper.

#2) These stats were WITH Glass Cannon on...so my mit AR, All Res stats posted above, those are dampened by Glass Cannon and STILL above 90.5% mitigation.

The highest output of the version you are describing is Diamond Shards + Glass Cannon...and that will work for everything, including Ubers, if you have the gear to handle it for one, but also, if you have the Crit Chance to compensate/mitigate the loss of Evocation (of which there truly is no REAL compensation for). No Safe Passage, no Evocation - just Glass Cannon, CM, and Cold Blooded.

What will really cook your noodle, is a variation that I came up with that removed ALL LoH from my gear...no LS on the weapon...no life regeneration on gear of any kind...except for Blood Magic replacing Diamond Skin entirely. tDPS of that build out DPS'ed the tDPS of its more "balanced" counterpart, for MY wizard. That variation was 410k+ DPS. Essentially, All I did was replace my zuni trifecta LoH, Nats Trifecta with LoH, and BT pants, with pure DPS counterparts. My Mitigation came from other pieces of existing gear, like my zuni chest, GGGGGGGG gloves, and GG crafted Bracers. That's innovation. I got all my sustain from Blood Magic...and it worked just fine.


Can you beat my measly 277K SNS around vota @410? I'll give you 100m if you can and 24 hrs to do it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub_HKB83Qro&list=UUfr_OnbD7g8uPk0s_mjzZLQ&feature=c4-overview

4 runs back to back to back DE/hr

Its not just DPS that make CM eDPS.

Its lock power based on crit and ias to localized DPS and never chase or kite DPS- ALL THE time

its multiplier I run over 9x based on crit/ping/CD and IAS and of course running shards which is like 20% of DPS BM is 10% - guys like master Jay run 13x - I'd put his 220K against any 300ker

Its travel. I reset perma wormhole 50% faster than someone at 2.5, low crit and no evo.

It's windup time , or lack thereof, based on crit and ias.

Why you think I never gave up nats boots and 6 CC ring for zuni?
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 1/23/2014 6:32 PM PST
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01/22/2014 07:39 PMPosted by Boozor
DPS is a LOSS, because of loss of EVOCATION which is 5-10% of your effective DPS not to mention cool down reduction for saving your life.


Evocation does jack !@#$ when your @250latency. Had this Evocation argument years ago with Shandlar, we finally agreed it was latency.

Much along the lines of 2.73 breakpoint vs 3.01. No noticeable difference when playing from Australia.
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True aph - whole thread is dejavu actually. All been tried and talked about.

When I built this gazillionaire from dubai (play on us server) he was set up a lot like moba. GC, like 65K life LS weapon full shell. Geopraphy plays a huge part. Dude coulnt even freeze withj my 3.35 gear and evo. I perma at only 2.73. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dLqIioyQX0&t=6m40s
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 1/23/2014 6:46 PM PST
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I've tried this with a stat of ~400k dps, 58.5 cc, 2.76 aps, 2.3 ls, 500k ehp (aided by crystal shell), 86.7 tdr and 44.6k life, todate.

It's fabulous! ...still got a little time to play before RoS arrival.

To the diehard veterans of Glass Cannon, I'm not stealing the thunder from any of you instead let me be the posterboy to demonstrate SnG awesome sauce.
Edited by MOBAjobg#6966 on 1/23/2014 8:44 PM PST
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