Diablo® III

[S&B] IAS Sword vs. LS Sword

IAS SWORD VS. LS SWORD

Preface
I have been playing around with S&B for the past couple weeks now. I will try to explain why in my opinion using a LS sword is more beneficial than using an IAS sword. I see many S&B barbs using an IAS sword as opposed to using a LS sword. You only need one slot of LS for a S&B set, so my question is WHY make it bloodthirst? I get the fact that you're pushing for a higher breakpoint, and thats cool, I guess. However from a:

HOTA perspective - breakpoints are not as crucial as they are with WW specs. This doesnt mean they are to be ignored, BUT one should not sacrifice RAW DAMAGE to hit a breakpoint.

WW perspective - breakpoints are important for tDPS and easier permawrath. However, the 2.23 breakpoint (4 slots of IAS 9/9/8/8) is perfectly capable of permawrath. To hit the 2.5 breakpoint you not only need an IAS sword but you also need a 5th slot of IAS. A 5th slot of IAS means you will have to sacrifice a slot of CD and for a S&B set up which already sacrifices a ton of CD by using a shield instead of another 1H weapon, that just doesn't make sense IMO. Of course this may not hold true to those individuals who can afford trifecta IK gloves and trifecta rings, where stacking a 5th slot of IAS is easy to do without losing out on CD, but how many of you have that sort of disposable income? If you can make the 2.5 breakpoint work with trifecta rings and trifecta IK gloves, CUTE. That doesn't mean you're actually pushing HIGHER DPS, which I will explain later in the theoretical figures section.

Benefits
The benefits from freeing up a passive and using berserker rage or brawler in place of bloodhitrst would outperform the tDPS gains from hitting the 2.5 breakpoint. For those who say "BUT, BUT.... BUT THOSE PASSIVES AREN'T UP 100% OF THE TIME" my suggestion is you should learn how to play because if you know what you're doing you can make it so that their uptime is near 100% (80-90%if we're being realistic). But even then, I would rather have 80-90% uptime of HIGHER DPS than 100% uptime of LESS DPS.

Comparison
For this comparison I will be using my own set and Crypter's set. I am by no means calling him out or anything.. I am merely using his set as an example. Also, I should mention that he is using a WW spec in his profile, BUT no changes would need to be made if he was to use HOTA.. apart from maybe using a -HOTA SOJ. For this comparison I will be displaying HOTA figures, since the real end game is improving elite kill times and HOTA would be the fastest way in which to do so when using S&B set. 2.5M tDPS would not have a chance against 4M HOTA DPS (which is roughly what both of our sets hit.)

Crypter#1856
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Crypter-1856/hero/1213081
http://www.d3rawr.com/d-y283O
Unbuffed Paper DPS: 311,398.99 (no follower)
Fully Buffed: 481,364.93 (Battle Rage & WOTB)
HOTA DPS: 4,054,445 (93% HOTA CC)
Crit Range: 1,002,499 - 1,715,681
Breakpoint: 2.5

Nived#1902
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Nived-1902/hero/29071399
http://www.d3rawr.com/d-3CzRF
Unbuffed Paper DPS: 247,453.04 (no follower)
Fully Buffed: 471,773.2 (Battle Rage, WOTB, Brawler)
HOTA DPS: 3,918,773 (93% HOTA CC)
Crit Range: 1,119,141 - 1,854,139
Breakpoint: 2.23

Results
Crypter obviously has some better pieces than me. However, this goes to show why paper DPS isn't a credible measurement of in-game performance. Crypter's got me beat by roughly 64k paper DPS, but our HOTA DPS is much close and he only beats me by 100k. Despite the fact that he has a 5th slot of IAS (tri IK's) to hit the 2.5 breakpoint, his overall HOTA DPS isn't much greater. As I've already stated, he has some better pieces than me, so just imagine if he were to use a LS sword and was able to run brawler...... here you go:

Theoretical Figures
Crypter's Set w/ My LS Sword
http://www.d3rawr.com/d-Pk2Xt
Unbuffed Paper DPS: 275,160.34 (no follower)
Fully Buffed: 522,779.54 (Battle Rage, WOTB, Brawler)
HOTA DPS: 4,361,978 (93% HOTA CC)
Crit Range: 1,195,715 - 1,985,454
Breakpoint: 2.23 (WW) 2.3 (HOTA)

As you can see his HOTA DPS shoots up another 300k with my LS sword and utilizing brawler. Crypter could either keep the 2.3 HOTA breakpoint, or he could drop 8%ias for even more DPS and still be at 2.23 for both WW and HOTA.

This concludes my explanation of why I believe using a LS sword is better than using an IAS sword for a S&B spec.
Edited by Nived#1902 on 8/13/2013 6:14 PM PDT
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He uses bash also.
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08/13/2013 06:12 PMPosted by RagingKoala
He uses bash also.

So you're gonna tell me that if I were to bash around an elite pack to get punish stacks and then proceed to fight the pack, which is more than likely now separated my kill times would improve.. rather than just hota smash the entire time?
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nived,, why don't you put an ik belt on his profile and run brawler. What are his numbers?
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08/13/2013 06:18 PMPosted by fabbyhunter
nived,, why don't you put an ik belt on his profile and run brawler. What are his numbers?

What stats would you like on the IK Belt sir? Unless he wants to have a go at crafting INSANE rare gloves 280str on an IK belt wont be outperforming his WH.
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08/13/2013 06:17 PMPosted by Nived
He uses bash also.

So you're gonna tell me that if I were to bash around an elite pack to get punish stacks and then proceed to fight the pack, which is more than likely now separated my kill times would improve.. rather than just hota smash the entire time?


If you were comparing ubers, yeah Id say adding bash would extremely help.

But with elites, the difference would be minimal I agree, maybe he keeps bash up while searching for elites, just stopping to hit something every couple seconds.

You really didn't specify:P
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If you were comparing ubers, yeah Id say adding bash would extremely help.

But with elites, the difference would be minimal I agree, maybe he keeps bash up while searching for elites, just stopping to hit something every couple seconds.

You really didn't specify:P


Here you go Pumpkin :)
For this comparison I will be displaying HOTA figures, since the real end game is improving elite kill times and HOTA would be the fastest way in which to do so when using S&B set. 2.5M tDPS would not have a chance against 4M HOTA DPS (which is roughly what both of our sets hit.)


Maybe I should've been more specific, you're right. However, do people with end game gear still farm ubers, unless theyre trying to break a "world record"? I dont see a s&b set breaking any uber world record anytime soon :)
Edited by Nived#1902 on 8/13/2013 6:31 PM PDT
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Hi Nived lets go uber when I finish my exams Ty.
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08/13/2013 06:21 PMPosted by Nived
nived,, why don't you put an ik belt on his profile and run brawler. What are his numbers?

What stats would you like on the IK Belt sir? Unless he wants to have a go at crafting INSANE rare gloves 280str on an IK belt wont be outperforming his WH.


I'm just offering an alternative

the whole point you are trying to make is that a dps passive is better than bloodthirst.

If Crypt puts on an Ik belt, he goes to 270k paper, but then he can put on a dps passive.

There are different ways to skin a cat.
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@fabbyhunter

Here's a 300str IK Belt and brawler:

Unbuffed Paper DPS: 272,189.26
Fully Buffed: 520,353.86 (Battle Rage, WOTB, Brawler)
HOTA DPS: 4,213,274
Crit Range: 1,135,810 - 1,943,830

LOL @ 300str IK Belt
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well, ya, 300str is a tad unrealistic.

But a 280 str Ik belt is quite common. it puts crypt at 270k exactly

Like I said, its an alternative
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The point in putting 300str on the IK Belt was to show how the set up i listed would still beat an impossible 300str ik belt set up (by 150k HOTA DPS). I understand you were just tossing up an alternative, but why settle for less is my question? I mean thats the real point of this thread tbh.

How much would u say his INSANE IAS SWORD is worth? My LS sword cost me 1.7B. His gear and my LS Sword and Brawler outperforms both the IAS Sword and IK Belt/Brawler and the IAS Sword WH/Bloodthirst.

Imagine if the money spent on the INSANE IAS SWORD was spent on an INSANE LS SWORD.
Edited by Nived#1902 on 8/13/2013 6:48 PM PDT
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08/13/2013 06:46 PMPosted by Nived
Imagine if the money spent on the INSANE IAS SWORD was spent on an INSANE LS SWORD.


You mean http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=68529163&f=153 #2?

or even...

http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=68514923&f=153&p=459119992#p459119992
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@kan

Exactly.
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08/13/2013 06:49 PMPosted by Nived
Exactly.


I still want the first sword lol.
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lol.... a thread about my toon.... wow.. nice Nived I dont even know you.

I am not one to compare toons like this and call someone out so I will just let you have your opinion and we can just chalk this up to who gives a F****. I have fun playing my toon my style I like having my 2.5 BP for WW which I have my tDPS at 3mil (when I equip my Wailing Host). Anyhow bottom line there is no right or wrong in this game, unless you want to gift me an LS Sword with similar stats to mine ill just play how ever I want. MMmkay pumpkin.
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@Crypter

08/13/2013 05:59 PMPosted by Nived
For this comparison I will be using my own set and Crypter's set. I am by no means calling him out or anything.. I am merely using his set as an example.


So why are you mad? I am not calling you out. Simply making a point. Would you mind answering me these questions please:

1) What is the purpose of using an IAS Sword, despite the fact that it gets outperformed by a cheaper in value LS sword? Is it just because of the 2.5 breakpoint?

2) Do you only play a pure ww spec?

3) Do you farm elites?

08/13/2013 07:12 PMPosted by Crypter
Nived I dont even know you.


"I'm kind of a big deal" - PhatPhoEater
Edited by Nived#1902 on 8/13/2013 7:21 PM PDT
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@Crypter

For this comparison I will be using my own set and Crypter's set. I am by no means calling him out or anything.. I am merely using his set as an example.


So why are you mad? I am not calling you out. Simply making a point. Would you mind answering me these questions please:

1) What is the purpose of using an IAS Sword, despite the fact that it gets outperformed by a cheaper in value LS sword? Is it just because of the 2.5 breakpoint?

2) Do you only play a pure ww spec?

3) Do you farm elites?

Nived I dont even know you.


"I'm kind of a big deal" - PhatPhoEater


again .... I am not mad...but why do I need to explain myself to you? That's right.. I don't.

/end thread
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Okay, you're not mad..........

Back to the topic at hand.. Anyone care to have an intelligent discussion on how the logic stated in this thread could be proven wrong?
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@Nived

Truth is, I have an LS/IAS sword 1204 DPS 56CD OS and I have experimented using that and brawler or using Brawler and an IK Belt. In the end, all I do these days is Farm Elites for DE's mostly Vota runs. When I am not doing that I am leveling my Monk.

I Run a Hybrid WW/HOTA build for which my gear fits perfectly. I am pretty sure I can clear mp10 vota faster than you but since I don't care enough to actually invest time in making a video and all that I will just have my opinion and you can have yours.

Also, it's not that your logic is wrong, it isn't. Obviously if I could add LS to my sword I would do it...it is a no brainer. But in this sword I have now suits me just fine I can play at a pace I like and have fun. This is a game after all.
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