Diablo® III

I Can't Upgrade Anymore...

ditch the natalya's slayer..
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08/15/2013 08:40 PMPosted by gentlemen
ditch the natalya's slayer..

and what do I switch it with??

please only suggest if you got something in mind. Don't tell me you want me to get a dml...
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Hi Ragnar

let's be honest here
Me with dml and RF I can stand on 2-3 arcane sentries + plague and what so ever. Elite kill time no matter how bad it gets is under 60 seconds. When I play with the current set up I can still stay on about the same amount of madness in MP10. But when I use a trap build my elites kill time is about 70 seconds, which is what I have on now. I will be dead in 2 seconds if a sentry beam pass over me. So I must step out of the way.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're trying to say. How does switching to DML (that ups DPS and gives tons of vit) make you move from Arcane elites? You don't have to use RF w DML - it should still be better overall than using Nats Slayer.

So why not go the easy way? I have this exact same set up when 1.05 hit, I was at 100k dps w/ Archery. I'm now sitting at double of that unbuffed, all thanks to paragons and the boa. Calamity is about the same, this one is about 3% better than my old one. I'm dual-wielding and will continue to support it.
Are you saying you don't want to move to DML bc you want to continue to DW? In which case, yeah, there's nothing you can do. Nice L4N btw.
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Yea, that is the end. I can do easier with more ehp by getting a dml which I have lots with different skill bonus but my dps is the same overall if I don't use skill that benefit from the dml.

Thanks for you time.
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Yea, that is the end. I can do easier with more ehp by getting a dml which I have lots with different skill bonus but my dps is the same overall if I don't use skill that benefit from the dml.

Thanks for you time.
Run some d3up simulations. I replaced your Nats Slayer w a hypothetical DML 20 / 10 / 270 / 270, which shouldn't be too expensive. Even without the skill bonus, it shows +7K DPS and +37K ehp.
Even if you decide to go for the +max disc version, you're looking at ~+1k DPS/25K ehp.

Again, if you like DW and want to support it, that's one thing. But if you're under the illusion that DML wont make you better in every single way, that's just incorrect.
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Silly question, can you get a better Slayer?
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08/15/2013 10:50 PMPosted by The47thSen
Silly question, can you get a better Slayer?

if it is under 4m I would, I haven't checked, RedCell is suggesting the same thing.

Now I would hope we get a much better Slayer when they patch the Game.

EDIT

Just check the math on my spreadsheet. I get 2.5k increase in dps with a perfect nata slayer. I think getting a calamity is my last hope. to hit near 250k unbuff.
Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 8/15/2013 11:00 PM PDT
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Again, if you like DW and want to support it, that's one thing. But if you're under the illusion that DML wont make you better in every single way, that's just incorrect.

lol I'm at 320k with SA and Manticore + DML. Faster elite kill yes, way faster.

No illusion here, just some confusion. I can gear if I wanted to. I'm well over 40k life with my dml. I'm here seeking for advise to get better with dual-wielding. Not getting better at playing elite slaughtering. I have already killed enough to self-find and gear 3 other classes in my profile.
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as I understand you're just looking to increase your damage with duel-wielding? And since you have legacy nats, you're not seeking resistance on gear much either?

witching hour - this would offer much bigger boost in damage most likely - tradof losing 130 dex which I don't think is big deal (maybe i'm wrong)

dannetta spite - this might be better choice in replacing nats weapon which would offer more damage - tradof losing set bonus

lacuni prowlers - they should offer fairly good boost, without ar they sell cheaply

nats ring - trfica ring most likely needed more here

inn pants - needs far more dex since you're not using inn pants with AR, dex must be at least over 150+ - pants with ar dex is limited to 100 i believe

think about adding archery as passive it will greatly improve your damage most likely. Their isn't much room to improve your gear when you're duel wielding and wearing legacy nats - this sort of setup is rather limited.
Edited by Krak#1139 on 8/16/2013 9:24 AM PDT
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Hi Krak,

Nice list of upgrades but since you don't dual I will let you know the results.

My WH with 90 dex, 9as, 50cd does less damage for me compare to my current inna's favor. I'm already at a high cd so the sight increase in 50cd does not add enough damage where as the 8% holy is 8% all the time and the dex bonus basically covers over.

With a set of Danetta it is hard to say, but with only a Spite it must be +11 aps or it is a waste imo. When I strip off my Nata bonus +8% cc and 11 aps then that is 20% less chance to deal damage. For those that dual cala+dane you get a very powerful calamity and your spite is only good for support. Unlike the bul-kathos, dane Spite does not add +elite bonus and does not proc cold like Nata so you can't proc chill and must use a soj or use skills that slows to activate CtW, which is a 15% increase in dps. Much higher than adding 100 cd to the setup.

The Lacuni I used before is now on my wizard. I do more damage with my current bracer both in game edps and profile dps. Once you hit 2.51 aps break point then aps does very little until you can get it to 3.01.

Trifecta Nata Reflection? I'm using one you mean look for a Quafecta? I didn't even see one one the RMAH. I have 2 roll on mmd which gets it over 40 so I don't get the cc on the ring anymore unless it will replace the str/vit roll on my current one.

Inna's Pants. Will take a while before I decide to upgrade. It cost around 1.5~2.5b to get a double perfect roll. From what I see on the AH it is 100 dex/vit so my best choice is that. But It cost too much and return way too little. I only gain 5-6k dps with that. And I don't have over 1b to buy gears.

Archery does not increase you damage, it increase your chance to deal a higher damage. I'm still testing to optimize my build. I think I will drop CtW or SA and get shsh back on the list.
Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 8/16/2013 6:02 PM PDT
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Did a few Ghom runs for testing

basically seeing how well my setup is with Hatred and dps
MP8 Ghom with RF is 30 seconds
MP9 I run out of Hatred before it is died, and without a generator I'm dead
Here is the build
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#RcgYkh!Ybc!YZaccZ

since with 2.53 (breakpoint 2.51) aps I drain out Hatred too quickly I drop down to a set of Danettas. You can find the weapons here
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/KirusAlufras-1739/hero/9612180

aps drops down to 2.28, No Hatred over drain but edps is very low compare to what I had before. Cala+Nata (253k) and Danetta (240k) on profile. Kill time is 45 seconds in game.

I guess the difference between +11 aps and 8% cc and the 12% mark proc is a lot by comparison. Much more than I thought. I had assumed to be 20+12*0.24 = 22.88% difference but I'm getting a 50% difference in edps.

Even tho when Nata does about 50% less damage when compare to a Calamity.
Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 8/16/2013 6:21 PM PDT
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Btw, why are you refusing to upgrade your gems in your xbows? Youre looking at a 9,5k bump
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08/16/2013 07:35 PMPosted by OIVAVOI
Btw, why are you refusing to upgrade your gems in your xbows? Youre looking at a 9,5k bump

really? last time I checked
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9662236175?page=1#19

I would say 6~7k increase
...
So I check with my spreadsheet

211.3 to 218.8
with +20 dex and +20% cd
so a exact 7516.06 <- over 300m for this upgrade
Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 8/16/2013 7:53 PM PDT
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Try inserting a Ruby in Nat, Emerald in Calamity - this sohuld bridge the gap between two weapons
Edited by OIVAVOI#2307 on 8/16/2013 7:52 PM PDT
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08/16/2013 07:51 PMPosted by OIVAVOI
Try inserting a Ruby in Nat, Emerald in Calamity - this sohuld bridge the gap between two weapons


Okay again
Marquise Ruby in and Emerald for everything else
211.3 to 219.45
with +20 dex and -90% cd
so a exact 8105.04 <- over 300m for this upgrade

better?

and if I don't upgrade Gem on Armor then
211.3 to 218.07
-90% cd
so a exact 6723.08 <- over 300m for this upgrade

worth it?

tbh I don't like putting Marquise into "in need of upgrade" gears so I'm putting that choice down as making a Marquise cost a lot.

EDIT

I do need a Marquise I think, here
w/ RS Gems
211.3 to 208.09
so I lose dps here and the cost is 6600 gold to pull out the Gem.

Checked again, I lose critical hit damage with a Ruby no matter which grade I use. For inferno no Crit is like saying no damage.
Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 8/16/2013 8:06 PM PDT
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http://d3up.com/b/974058

Go and see for yourself pal.

Assuming 20m cost of RS gem this upgrade costs 2x20m + 5x20m=140m.
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08/16/2013 07:59 PMPosted by KirusAlufras
Checked again, I lose critical hit damage with a Ruby no matter which grade I use. For inferno no Crit is like saying no damage.


Im sure and all these Calamity+DML players use Rubies to make their game harder :]

Not quite reasonable, by the way, to disparage every advice people throw at you. I mean, why start a new thread if youve already got all the answers?

http://imgur.com/CpOht32
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http://d3up.com/b/974058

Go and see for yourself pal.

Thanks for the site, I found a error in my own spreadsheet

Now I will play with the numbers.

08/16/2013 08:28 PMPosted by OIVAVOI
Not quite reasonable, by the way, to disparage every advice people throw at you. I mean, why start a new thread if youve already got all the answers?

I don't know what is eating you up but you are putting down conclusion way too quickly.
Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 8/16/2013 8:40 PM PDT
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Ok

w/ Ruby in Nata +130 I lose -649.8 dps and critical hits
203.0 to 202.4
407.8 to 396.6

w/ Ruby in Nata +160 I gain 5788.5 dps and critical hits
203.0 to 208.9
407.8 to 409.2

So I must get a Marquise in the weapon If I want an upgrade. I had a higher min-max bonus calculated off my own spreadsheet so the Natalya was not getting enough bonus from the Gem, as a result nothing better than what I had.

Cost for Marquise will be 20x2 + 20 = 60m each
I don't know how you are getting that 140m on your post

Anyways thanks for the suggestions OIVAVOI
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Cost for Marquise will be 20x2 + 20 = 60m each
I don't know how you are getting that 140m on your post


2x20m - craft
2x20m - emeralds
3x20m - rubies
=======
140m

offtopic, since i have nobody to ask - is calling sb pal the same as calling them bud,mate or fella?
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