Diablo® III

Having trouble understanding EHP/DPS

I agree with SwSw on the cloak being a great place to get disc, with the SoJ being another one. Honestly, I'll never go back to a cloak without it.

That said, play how you want, but it might be wise to try out some disc gear.
Reply Quote
@SwSw: Disagree with you. For most builds, especially higher MP (facetanking) builds, 30 disc is plenty. Getting disc on your cloak forces you to sacrifice either AR + 100 stats or 200 stats for it. Unless you're a pvper or a low MP speedrunner, it's definitely not worth it.

So if you don't get Disc on your cloak Innas chest is better than Nats. For one, they're cheaper (w similar stats), and two, Nats naturally rolls a DH skill (most of which are 100% useless), while Innas rolls melee reduction.

Hence, most DHs run Innas chest.
Reply Quote
@SwSw: Disagree with you. For most builds, especially higher MP (facetanking) builds, 30 disc is plenty. Getting disc on your cloak forces you to sacrifice either AR + 100 stats or 200 stats for it. Unless you're a pvper or a low MP speedrunner, it's definitely not worth it.

So if you don't get Disc on your cloak Innas chest is better than Nats. For one, they're cheaper (w similar stats), and two, Nats naturally rolls a DH skill (most of which are 100% useless), while Innas rolls melee reduction.

Hence, most DHs run Innas chest.


I wouldn't say most run Inna's, but it's absolutely a viable alternative. But as stated in your post and mine, some people don't want to make the sacrifice of AR / LOTS of stats. And that's a concrete point as to why anything more than 30 disc is a BONUS, not necessary, since PLENTY of DHs run high MP with 30 disc.
Reply Quote
I agree with SwSw on the cloak being a great place to get disc, with the SoJ being another one. Honestly, I'll never go back to a cloak without it.

That said, play how you want, but it might be wise to try out some disc gear.


Thanks

Only noobs/epeen goes with inna's chest and later come around saying they have no disc problem on MP10. With 30 disc, one gloom and vault is gonna hurt.

@SwSw: Disagree with you. For most builds, especially higher MP (facetanking) builds, 30 disc is plenty. Getting disc on your cloak forces you to sacrifice either AR + 100 stats or 200 stats for it. Unless you're a pvper or a low MP speedrunner, it's definitely not worth it.

So if you don't get Disc on your cloak Innas chest is better than Nats. For one, they're cheaper (w similar stats), and two, Nats naturally rolls a DH skill (most of which are 100% useless), while Innas rolls melee reduction.

Hence, most DHs run Innas chest.


you can always go AR on it as well. But again, yeah I know the stats on chest is nice but c'mon 30 disc?

and if a tank dh goes 30 disc without going bitter pill and NS then fine but most of them go 30 disc and later go NS/bitter pill. Is just shooting themselves down. Do u get me?
Reply Quote
And trust me. My eDPS far outdoes most 350k+ DHs without breaking a sweat. 0 deaths. MP10 elites burned in 20 - 30 seconds average


I don't trust you. And I sure as hell don't believe you're doing 20-30 seconds average.

SNS CM Wiz with approx 250k DPS doing that time, u're telling me u're besting a 250k DPS SNS wiz? fat chance

And it is absolutely HILARIOUS that you think I can afford my 1750 dps 11/98/50 calamity, but I don't have a cloak or a quiver to switch to. Again, reiterating my point that you're absolutely close-minded.


since when did I say you do not have one? please point it out. So you have a cloak and quiver but yet go with a shield? again, pretty much says what i think about you: DUMB.

calamity? mehhhh...

I'll just stop you right there and say every single one of your points are invalid. As if you know what content I can run, or even know I utilize my DH during gameplay. Have you every played Mp10 content with me like others have? My memory must have slipped a minute, because I don't recall.

go ahead and i'll stop you there too with your 18k kills. Get more game time THEN talk.


Talking to a child here. I've obviously made my point, and there are plenty others on my list that post here regularly on the forum that can attest to my feats. You're an invalid voice in the matter due to the fact that you have no knowledge of what my DH is capable of.

As you can clearly see, you're basing all your information about what I CANNOT do off of your indirect knowledge of other aspects of the game. Close-minded thinking, I've repeated myself 3 times, and yet you still cannot see that.

Oh and. If I said I can take Butcher MP10 down in 2 minutes, can you publicly do the math for me? 190M / 120 - 130 seconds. And, begin.
Edited by Xenophis#1434 on 8/15/2013 10:29 AM PDT
Reply Quote
08/15/2013 10:24 AMPosted by Xenophis
I wouldn't say most run Inna's, but it's absolutely a viable alternative. But as stated in your post and mine, some people don't want to make the sacrifice of AR / LOTS of stats. And that's a concrete point as to why anything more than 30 disc is a BONUS, not necessary, since PLENTY of DHs run high MP with 30 disc.


Anything more than 30 is a bonus when you don't have to resort to NS or Bitter pill to manage your disc.

Who doesn't want more dex more vit, I want them too! heck, I want to run with 30 disc too and just go max dex on other part but the thing is, if i do that, i'm gonna resort to disc management skills i.e: NS or Bitter pill.

And when I do that, I'm just handicapping myself.

I hope you get it..
Reply Quote
On inna's chest for DH, I think it's a good option for Manti users that tank, however, for single wielders and dual wielders, the Nat's cloak is better as it enables the DH to drop Foot Prints for Zuni an still keep the 7% CC.
Edited by RedCell#1728 on 8/15/2013 10:38 AM PDT
Reply Quote
@SwSw: Disagree with you. For most builds, especially higher MP (facetanking) builds, 30 disc is plenty. Getting disc on your cloak forces you to sacrifice either AR + 100 stats or 200 stats for it. Unless you're a pvper or a low MP speedrunner, it's definitely not worth it.

So if you don't get Disc on your cloak Innas chest is better than Nats. For one, they're cheaper (w similar stats), and two, Nats naturally rolls a DH skill (most of which are 100% useless), while Innas rolls melee reduction.

Hence, most DHs run Innas chest.


I wouldn't say most run Inna's, but it's absolutely a viable alternative. But as stated in your post and mine, some people don't want to make the sacrifice of AR / LOTS of stats. And that's a concrete point as to why anything more than 30 disc is a BONUS, not necessary, since PLENTY of DHs run high MP with 30 disc.

They do. I wanted to get some sort of validation for that, so I checked top 20 DHs heroscore. 5 of them used Nats, 15 used Innas. There are 3 possible reasons to run Nats:
-Disc
-Skill bonus (traps or strafe)
-You're using Innas belt i/of WH and trying to get both 2 set Innas and 3 set Nats.
EDIT** - RedCell is right, using Zunis is another reason to go Cloak. Forgot.
If you're using a nats cloak for any other reason it's generally poor planning :-)


you can always go AR on it as well. But again, yeah I know the stats on chest is nice but c'mon 30 disc?

and if a tank dh goes 30 disc without going bitter pill and NS then fine but most of them go 30 disc and later go NS/bitter pill. Is just shooting themselves down. Do u get me?

If you get AR on Max Disc chest, you're still losing 200 stats.
I don't use BitterPill and have no probs w Disc. However, I am a firm believer in SOJs for all chars, so I do get extra 10 disc from there.
Edited by Ragnar#1875 on 8/15/2013 10:36 AM PDT
Reply Quote
08/15/2013 10:30 AMPosted by SwSw
and you're an invalid voice due to your limited knowledge.


Good laugh. Needed that today.
Reply Quote
They do. I wanted to get some sort of validation for that, so I checked top 20 DHs heroscore. 5 of them used Nats, 15 used Innas.


like i said, epeen purposes.

Dude, I went 300 AR just to be on page 1 of EU DPS unbuff
Reply Quote
SwSw, maybe I don't understand something here but are you saying that with 40 disc DH do not require NS and can thus free up a passive slot? I'm unable to see how I can manage that during long fights.
Reply Quote
@SwSw...

You really do need to rethink the discipline thing. I run mp10 just fine. I will say it's kind of nice when I switch to a SOJ for solo runs, but not so much for the disc as for the elite bonus. You kill so much faster that you don't need the disc.

I rarely have disc issues. Only when an elite pack is hammering me with knockback or possibly wallers in the wrong spot. Even then, if I am sensible about my traps, disc is not a problem.

I don't use Inna's chest, but it does seem to be the new "in" thing.

I will say, when they "fix" rapid fire, then maybe I'll go back to wanting more discipline.
Reply Quote
@Rimripper

Some DHs want to run with passives other than NS/Perfectionist, thus they need to manage their disc differently. For example, with my setup, all of my attacks chill, so why would slot NS over CtW.
Edited by RedCell#1728 on 8/15/2013 12:08 PM PDT
Reply Quote
eh... why do we have so many monks on the demon hunters' forum.

so anyone of you so called "tanking dh" run your build with 30 discipline and without any one of these skills:
Grenades
Shuriken Cloud
Rapid Fire
Night Stalker


If you did you can now call me an idiot trying to play a demon hunter.

imo +10 discipline =
+30% ehp
+50% dps
+25% mobility

or be modest and go with
+15% ehp
+25% dps
+20% mobility


If you "enjoy" tanking then I guess you will not take my advice nor will you read what swsw is saying. Might as well try and learn how to use a sword or skorn and play you iron barrel of hit points in melee range. Oh, you can't... without a bow you can't use half of your skills trying to play a demon hunter.
Reply Quote
If you're rocking a chest piece without Discipline on it I feel bad for you son. Max Disc doesn't automatically make your stats page look cool when you post on the forums.

If you only have 30 Disc, and no Prep, trying to rely solely on Nightstalker is super funny. Good luck getting Discipline when you're trapped in a wall or something like that.

p.s. SwSw: stop hating on Bitter Pill :P Have you tried washing it down with water? Besides, Bola is at its absolute best when you blow them up prematurely. Bitter Pill becomes hilarious, I bet that's how it was designed.

In DH groups somebody has to be a terminal Bola loader. It's like Marked for Death, we all benefit.
Edited by ActionKungfu#1184 on 8/15/2013 12:38 PM PDT
Reply Quote
eh... why do we have so many monks on the demon hunters' forum.

so anyone of you so called "tanking dh" run your build with 30 discipline and without any one of these skills:
Grenades
Shuriken Cloud
Rapid Fire
Night Stalker


If you did you can now call me an idiot trying to play a demon hunter.

imo +10 discipline =
+30% ehp
+50% dps
+25% mobility

or be modest and go with
+15% ehp
+25% dps
+20% mobility


If you "enjoy" tanking then I guess you will not take my advice nor will you read what swsw is saying. Might as well try and learn how to use a sword or skorn and play you iron barrel of hit points in melee range. Oh, you can't... without a bow you can't use half of your skills trying to play a demon hunter.


I don't mind taking critique as long as it's a good one, but unfortunately everything you posted is false. Did you just make up numbers for what +10 disc is worth? Proof that those are mathematically correct? And of COURSE I can run MP10 without Grenades, I CHOOSE to use it because for how I play, it is good source of damage as well as the AoE utility of it, and THE BEST disc generator for DH. Period.

Honestly, I really don't know how people are even beginning to talk about builds / gear combinations they've never even attempted. (and along with that, comes a different style of playing, which 9 out of 10 of you are completely unfamiliar with), and yes I'm specifically calling out Kirus and Sw. Stick with the herd, and leave the theorycrafting of builds to other folks. Do I tell a dps DH how to synergize his skills, when to cast what skill according to travel speed / delay cast, etc? No I sure don't. (Even though I've refined stacking multiple skills together to give me a very large damage multiplier for over a year.)

Taking a quick look at your DH Kirus, let me put the shoe on the other foot for a second. You say 10 disc is worth "so and so eHP / mobility."

At the cost of having to kite every single elite you come across in MP10? Give me a break. You lose MUCH more eDPS kiting an elite, than solely focusing on burning its HP down. So sure, you may gain a few more vaults here and there, but you have to avoid MUCH MUCH more damage than me, whereas I can walk through Desc + 5 arcane beams, and still focus on taking down the elite's HP, rather than surviving.

Hopefully that's clear enough, as I can't be any more clear than plain English. If you still don't understand why people choose to build tankier DH's, then you'll never fully understand the capabilities of a DH. Sorry to say, but it's the truth. Expose yourself to all elements of the class, that's how you master it. Not by "Oh I know the best build, you're not using it? You must not know how to play." Doesn't that sound pretty ignorant to you if you just read it out loud?
Reply Quote
Xenophis, though what you're saying might be coming from the right place, it's still coming from an inexperienced one.
Reply Quote
08/15/2013 01:16 PMPosted by ActionKungfu
Xenophis, though what you're saying might be coming from the right place, it's still coming from an inexperienced one.
That's silly. You should be judging what was said, not who said it.

What was originally "10 disc vs 200 stats for MP10" discussion turned into "YOU MUST HAVE MOAR DISC" argument. Did you and Kirus read the whole thread? Because we were talking about MP10, while neither one of you have an MP10 capable DH.

Also to your question above: I'm not nearly as tanky as Xenophis (by choice), and I have no problems with low disc and no prep.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]