Diablo® III

Having trouble understanding EHP/DPS


Using your logic, your DH doesn't belong in MP10 either, but that's besides the point. MP10 simply is not a good idea for my character, my own skill and ability independent. As there are conditions that present themselves to where I can get 1 shot. Pre-MP HC Inferno was more difficult than MP10, not due to just the stats themselves but the circulation of gear.
Heh somehow I knew you'd try to go there. My DH does belong in MP10 - that's what all the CC boosting items/skills are for. I hit 2.5 BP, have +35CC, constant MfD app from calam and SOJ. DH averages 20-30 sec elites. They're not Impreza or gearsnapshot times, but they're very good - especially for pDPS of 250k.


MP1 is exactly like MP10, I don't give a !@#$. It's just increased or decreased numbers, no AI improvements. Increased item rewards means nothing, because the items in this game suck anyway. We pick the MP we feel matches how long we personally want confrontations to last, nothing more. I increase the worth of my gear in order to play with players that want to play in particular MPs, and if we go lower I switch my gear up to keep the same feeling or swap to improved faceroll to make my char feel empowered or whatever.

I completely disagree with you. It has everything to do with MP. The priority for low MPs is to KILL and MOVE fast. For high MPs, the priority shifts to KILL fast. It's why you see some12% MS chars in MP10, why L4N has lost popularity after MP XP buff.. it's why you barely see any TR monks in MP10 (except for well geared ones like Druin). I will never agree that "MP is just increased or decreased numbers". It's wrong.

For DHs, in lower MP, you need disc because you need to sustain vault. And you need even more disc to relocate your disc spenders, for ex dropping traps or MfD because you moved somewhere. In higher MP, you stand around the same area, so you cast one MfD/Trap and stand in it.
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I currently have two builds, MS - Suppression Fire w/all DPS passives and a 2.50 BP Fire Support build w/NS, that I switch between and both benefit from my 58 disc, the former via Punishment, and the latter through vault, traps, and Night Bane (my RF build is SP nerf proof ;-)

That said, the main reason, I believe, that my builds benefit from a lot of disc is because I don't tank, thus it necessarily follows that I don't Snapshot. Therefore, my DH needs the freedom to glide out of danger, or to vault over pools of desecrater if I'm to come out the victor. If, however, I tanked, then such might not be the case.

Edit: Correction, I only have 49 disc with RF build as I use a Unity with IAS to achieve 2.53 APS with Spite.
Edited by RedCell#1728 on 8/15/2013 7:19 PM PDT
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Using your logic, your DH doesn't belong in MP10 either, but that's besides the point. MP10 simply is not a good idea for my character, my own skill and ability independent. As there are conditions that present themselves to where I can get 1 shot. Pre-MP HC Inferno was more difficult than MP10, not due to just the stats themselves but the circulation of gear.
Heh somehow I knew you'd try to go there. My DH does belong in MP10 - that's what all the CC boosting items/skills are for. I hit 2.5 BP, have +35CC, constant MfD app from calam and SOJ. DH averages 20-30 sec elites. They're not Impreza or gearsnapshot times, but they're very good - especially for pDPS of 250k.


Herein lies your problem. I used your own logic against you, of course you'd know it was coming, it's from you.

One could log out in blues, and put bs on just to troll people like you. Judging someone based on profile is stupid.

You are the worst offender in this thread, and shot down your original statement within itself with hypocracy. You show up talking about others judging, and you're doing it this entire time.

You you you.


MP1 is exactly like MP10, I don't give a !@#$. It's just increased or decreased numbers, no AI improvements. Increased item rewards means nothing, because the items in this game suck anyway. We pick the MP we feel matches how long we personally want confrontations to last, nothing more. I increase the worth of my gear in order to play with players that want to play in particular MPs, and if we go lower I switch my gear up to keep the same feeling or swap to improved faceroll to make my char feel empowered or whatever.

I completely disagree with you. It has everything to do with MP. The priority for low MPs is to KILL and MOVE fast. For high MPs, the priority shifts to KILL fast. It's why you see some12% MS chars in MP10, why L4N has lost popularity after MP XP buff.. it's why you barely see any TR monks in MP10 (except for well geared ones like Druin). I will never agree that "MP is just increased or decreased numbers". It's wrong.

For DHs, in lower MP, you need disc because you need to sustain vault. And you need even more disc to relocate your disc spenders, for ex dropping traps or MfD because you moved somewhere. In higher MP, you stand around the same area, so you cast one MfD/Trap and stand in it.


And it finally comes out, trying to state what the priority for MPs are for DHs when that varies from player to player, gear to gear, Demon Hunter to Demon Hunter, and mode to mode.

Ragnar thinks he's the authority, though.

Watch Out.

Get out of here with that. You basically think you've got it all figured out to the point of judging based on standards that hold absolutely no weight.
Edited by ActionKungfu#1184 on 8/15/2013 5:55 PM PDT
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I don't die much, but against certain affixes or against KW act2 I just get owned in MP10...

Even on MP6 the act2KW can completely own me, yet any other kw on mp10 is not too much of an issue.

I was just wondering what is the average eHP for areas at my damage?


haha yeah... just do not stand and bola at act 2 kw whilst he is doing his spins and mortar-ing everywhere.

Based on your posts (and gear/skill choices), you're doing okay-ish with your build... but I think you might not be too comfy on mp10 (pls correct me if i'm wrong).

Just a suggestion, perhaps, the next step is (re)consider to increase your hp to somewhere like 60k without gimping your dps,

Cheers, have fun.
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You don't want to be nice? Okay.

Herein lies your problem. I used your own logic against you, of course you'd know it was coming, it's from you.
Right. Because I said your 110k non SOJ trash char doesn't belong in MP10, you "hurl my logic" back at me by saying That a 250k, SOJ DH doesn't belong in MP10. Your logic is impeccable. Hey, while you're there. If I say that your lvl17 barb doesn't belong in Hell, are you gonna say the same about my barb? (get it? bc your barb is under the lvl requirement just making sure!)

One could log out in blues, and put bs on just to troll people like you. Judging someone based on profile is stupid.
Yes, because you knew that you'd get into an argument, so you updated your d3p profile a month ago with the same crappy build and gear, just so you can troll someone you don't know!
You sir a GENIUS, you did indeed troll me. Well done, troll.

You are the worst offender in this thread, and shot down your original statement within itself with hypocracy. You show up talking about others judging, and you're doing it this entire time.
Shot down? You have not presented one ACTUAL argument. You've been attacking random posters, you said "if you dont use disc on cloak I feel bad for you son" - what are you, 12? Who the hell uses "son"? I'm judging your crappy attitude as well as your 110k DH with an awful skill set.

Btw - I didn't say it last time, but do you even know what hypocrisy is? You've used the word twice, both times where there was none. Grab a dictionary, you'll actually learn what the word means. Maybe how to spell it as well. Maybe both. YOU DONT KNOW!


And it finally comes out, trying to state what the priority for MPs are for DHs when that varies from player to player, gear to gear, Demon Hunter to Demon Hunter, and mode to mode.

Ragnar thinks he's the authority, though.
Before you poked your nose in here, we were discussing benefits of Nats cloak with Disc for mp10. This pretty much assumes that we're speaking about the most EFFICIENT and EFFECTIVE builds.

If your contribution to this thread is "you play how you want to play".... WOW. You just unlocked the chamber of secrets.

Watch Out.

Get out of here with that. You basically think you've got it all figured out to the point of judging based on standards that hold absolutely no weight.
Get out? I'm sorry, did this somehow become your forum? You're just another arrogant !@# who attacked TWO posters in this thread for NO reason.
I'm not judging anyone by any standards, and I don't have it all figured out. I have, however, probably played DH longer than you, have played all other classes at a pretty high level (using 90% of all popular and unpopular builds) thus I do know more about DHs from other points of view.

I've also attempted to disregard your blatant personal attacks and get the discussion back on track by presenting ideas and facts. You've given nothing.

You have a horrible attitude and your characters are trash - gear and skills both. Here's an ex:

Your SC DH uses Prep->Punishment
...Even though she has only one hatred spender
.......Which is Elemental Arrow....
.........that has NT as it's rune...
..........and you have 2 hatred generators....
.............one of which is Bitter Pill.....
..............Even though you also have NS specced....
...............And while NT is not a horrible rune
...................even though it's worse than BL in every way
....................... it's generally only used in lower MP, because damage is horrible....
..........................but you don't have vault or TA for faster movement
............................yet still use shadow glide?
(weren't all those dots pretty?)
So yeah, you play however you want, but "effectiveness" discussions are not your forte.

I just realized that I should have put you on ignore 2 replies ago to make it easier for both of us. Doing so now, but still sending the msg - just to be an $%^ like you. :-)
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I was testing some skills out.

Yes, put me on ignore, please. You saved me a couple clicks, like what I had to do with GodIike.
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I currently have two builds, MS - Suppression Fire w/all DPS passives and a 2.50 BP Fire Support build w/NS, that I switch between and both benefit from my 58 disc, the former via Punishment, and the latter through vault, traps, and Night Bane (my RF build is SP nerf proof ;-)

That said, the main reason, I believe, that my builds benefit from a lot of disc is because I don't tank, thus it necessarily follows that I don't Snapshot. My DH needs the freedom to glide out of danger, and to vault over pools of desecrater if I'm to come out the victor. If, however, I tanked, then such might not be the case.

Right. Having more disc is always a good option - and I do think it's as crucial as having good disc regen (with NS build, for instance, no one should get labelled for choosing it).

Like you've mentioned, the choice depends on one's playstyle (the main dps-ing skills), and defensive stats (for more tanky build).
Edited by skyrush#1329 on 8/15/2013 7:05 PM PDT
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Being a theorycrafter, I figured you'd understand what he was saying

U mean xeno with 18k elite kills being a theory crafter? Wow, it seems now all noobs are theory crafting something nowadays.


I was just trying to keep it civil with the guy. Ragnar is especially hilarious when he says he has more DH experience than I do, when I have more exp in my graveyard alone.
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Oh speaking about disc, it seems the noobs still don't get it. trying to squeeze DPS by going inna and yet having to resort to a defensive passive and thus handicapping themselves in the process. How can someone not get that?


They won't get it because there isn't much of anything they can't just throw money or stronger gear at and just remain ignorant.

It's like people all of a sudden forgot the importance of Disc among many other things.

The playerbase holds the class back, too.
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Had my pants down for 20 minutes to look away from this thread. What happened? xD
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08/15/2013 08:39 PMPosted by VocaloidNyan
Had my pants down for 20 minutes to look away from this thread. What happened? xD


This thread didn't get enough Nyan hugs, that's what.
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08/15/2013 08:39 PMPosted by VocaloidNyan
Had my pants down for 20 minutes to look away from this thread. What happened? xD


Not sure, apparently according to some players, I lie about my MP10 capability. Pretty funny since I just ran with you today haha.
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Here is a hug guys!

(>^^)>

I play mp3 with 700k dps everythings all good ^.^

And I saw you take 6 fallen maniacs to the face w/o any smoke screen lol xD
Edited by VocaloidNyan#1582 on 8/15/2013 8:43 PM PDT
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08/15/2013 08:41 PMPosted by Xenophis
Not sure, apparently according to some players, I lie about my MP10 capability. Pretty funny since I just ran with you today haha.


u mean leeching off someone else?

thing is u won't know how much you contributing and the only thing I can see you are good at is staying alive.

but hey, like what you said ppl have diff ways of playing and is pretty clear that u don't mind taking ages to take down and elite pack. And how's the scenery when you're running away cuz u' empty on disc?
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Here is a hug guys!

(>^^)>

I play mp3 with 700k dps everythings all good ^.^

And I saw you take 6 fallen maniacs to the face w/o any smoke screen lol xD


Was fun, was fun haha. And I had a nice date with Ghomie for a bit too. Sorry you were the third wheel in that...
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Xenophis build is rather interesting actually because he doesn't need perma shadow power, and focus remaining discipline for jagged spikes, mark for death, on top of his normal grenades + spike traps. He may get even more eDPS by using sentry instead of chakram, and perfectionist could be cull the weak.

But the idea here is basically stacking damage using multiple skills at once, at the same time being a tank with very high mit% + decent hp.
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08/15/2013 07:58 PMPosted by SwSw
And haven't you guys notice, is the noobs with less than 20k kills the one running inna..


omg I never notice... I don't check ppl's profile. Maybe I should start doing that before I post next time.

I started the "fun" when I saw your points being rejected because some guy was saying

inna chest + 30 dis + NS > nata cloak + 40~50 dis

imo 60 dis you can drop NS and don't even need to run prep if you got vengeance. btw I think most inna chest also use perfectionist for the extra defensive stats.

I guess we know why the devs are ignoring us when we cry about edps... according to Xenophis "most" of the dh run inna chest and 30 disc with NS and maybe perfectionist. No dps passive, no skill bonus from class gear = not running the class at full potential...
The class is at "a good place", there are skills that are not used by the majority so they are lying to us when they don't play the class we have designed for them. There are no edps issue, players are just not getting their hands on those buff in their stash...

So how long do I need to wait for a new dual-wielding system. I'm tired of playing this barbarian style when I have to swing my arms when I can fire at will.
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Apparently all the P100s that I run high MP content with are wrong. You're absolutely right Kirus, Sw, and Action. You 3 know better than the rest of us. Warms my heart that all you non-P100's are coming at me with these ridiculous statements about "experience" as you so kindly put it. The more you post with these response, the more you're showing your lack of knowledge towards this class.

And it's also hilarious that since none of you can provide any facts and are constantly going back and forth about me not having a nat's cloak on (because as Action put it, you're really judging people by their equipped profile gear? That absolutely shows what I have stashed or in my inventory. I sure don't have a 20/10 DML, SoJ, cloak, or a plethora of other gear to switch to when the situation arises.)

Every statement you 3 have made about me has been based on conjecture. You should learn a thing or two about, you know. Learning something new.
Edited by Xenophis#1434 on 8/15/2013 10:04 PM PDT
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