Diablo® III

Loot 2.0: You made the same mistakes again

One change that would have big difference is to fix rares, so no DEX/STR-wizhats or INT-mighty weapons would roll...
I have seen so many potential items but they all are ruined by wrong mainstats.
Reply Quote
08/21/2013 05:45 AMPosted by SuboXone
So you see 2 new items and you already claim that loot 2.0 will fail. Wow. Good conclusion playing the new xpac and all... Oh, wait, you haven't played the new xpac and have no idea what you are talking about. Basing you conclusion on 1 legendary item they showed. Good job. Tell me more wisdom you behold about other new legendaries and new affixes...


People have said the same thing about the itemization from D3's beta and we know how that turned out...

Although the revealed items so far have been lacking in the "wow" factor, I'll remain somewhat optimistic that round 2 will be successful.
Reply Quote
08/26/2013 12:17 PMPosted by Grimiku
Loot 2.0 is still in progress, and we'll be sharing more details as things develop. In the meantime we will be gathering feedback, and making sure your concerns are brought up. While on the subject, though, I'd like to point out that a single Legendary may or may not be enough to change your build, but it's important to take into consideration that it's likely that you'll have multiple Legendary items. Personally, I have an easier time imagining some interesting alternative mechanics when I think about multiple Legendary item effects working at once. Just something to think about while we wait for more information about Loot 2.0.


Remember what you guys did about itemization concerns before D3 was released? (beta). Oh yea, I remember, NOTHING. We were told, "These items were just place holders". Much like the legendary item shown in the RoS presentation, it has me worried, to say the least. Don't even get me started on the bs the devs pulled on the alleged loot 1.5 legendary overhaul, what a joke.

Time to roll out loot 2.0 on the PTR so we can see exactly what you guys have been working on. Then we can provide feedback BEFORE you guys make another big mistake.
Edited by Menacetech#1216 on 8/26/2013 3:06 PM PDT
Reply Quote
I'd be fine with loot 2.0 if they'd just add the "Wolfhowl"-helmet from D2, so that if you equip it permanently become a werewolf ( like an archon with set skills ) - all of the "not having druids in the expansion" problems will be solved, as well as the "not enough legendary legendaries"

That'd probably be too much work though, so that's sadly ain't gonna happen.
Reply Quote
One change that would have big difference is to fix rares, so no DEX/STR-wizhats or INT-mighty weapons would roll...
I have seen so many potential items but they all are ruined by wrong mainstats.


@ PyleWarlord:
First thing that was a noob comment. You should know that the other affixes even not being of the class you are playing it brings benefits. For example: Dex (Monks and Dh's). What would be of a Barb without any dex to dodge attacks? Same goes for intelligence and strenght where int=AR and strenght=armor. Just open your inventory in game and read what armor and AR do to your char. Then you'll see that those affixes are really important, even if they show up in a weapon. I've seen great rare weapons with 2 affixes like strenght and dex, or whatever.



Remember what you guys did about itemization concerns before D3 was released? (beta). "These items were just place holders". Much like the legendary item shown in the RoS presentation, it has me worried, to say the least.

Time to roll out loot 2.0 on the PTR so we can see exactly what you guys have been working on. Then we can provide feedback BEFORE you guys make another big mistake.


I'm also waiting for the PTR and the Beta version of the expansion. All we can do is to have a little hope that this time things will get better.
Reply Quote
One change that would have big difference is to fix rares, so no DEX/STR-wizhats or INT-mighty weapons would roll... I have seen so many potential items but they all are ruined by wrong mainstats.


You're putting the cart before the horse so to speak.

In a properly itemized Diablo game it's perfectly fine to have such stats roll on rares, because you don't "need" rares to progress. Rather you progress through legendaries.

Then when rares roll good (which isn't supposed to be very often), they can really compete with legendaries without oversaturating the economy.
Reply Quote
Posts: 11,835
View profile
If rare items can compete that would add more diversity. Like I already said, if we limit interesting affixes to Legendaries, everyone will continue using the AH to get what they need. Why should I rely on dismal drop rates to improve a specific build?

I'm not suggesting they make rare items better, I'm saying rare items need useful affixes that promote build diversity too.


Part of loot 2.0 is making people feel like they dont need to use the AH. I think this is being done with game changing legendaries being BoA. People seem to assume the screens showed BoA because the items were modified by a mystic but nothing really points to that being the case. Why would they show all items adjusted by a mystic and not just pull up the base item stats? And then to compensate they adjusted the drop rate (6x more legendaries according to the chart). Now people feel that they can get the game changing items by simply playing.

Rares dont need the special affixes to make them useful and promote build diversity. Like I said keeping them generic lets you use whatever build you want. The way I see it is that rares are going to be very good items usable with any spec. In fact if they do it right rares would be better than legendaries for most specs. But the legendary would be better for a particular spec. If you give rares the same special affixes as legendaries then the only thing that would make legendaries better is to give it better stats. I think that would make rares less useful.
Reply Quote
08/26/2013 12:17 PMPosted by Grimiku
Loot 2.0 is still in progress, and we'll be sharing more details as things develop. In the meantime we will be gathering feedback, and making sure your concerns are brought up. While on the subject, though, I'd like to point out that a single Legendary may or may not be enough to change your build, but it's important to take into consideration that it's likely that you'll have multiple Legendary items. Personally, I have an easier time imagining some interesting alternative mechanics when I think about multiple Legendary item effects working at once. Just something to think about while we wait for more information about Loot 2.0.


That would simply mean that everyone will be using legendary. Rare items will be useless.
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,942
his is a "build around me" item.
It has insanely high base damage and no CD - because hydra can't crit.
I don't think you can judge overall item quality based on that. Loot 2.0 seems promising. Maybe they create the item to make the build viable you always wanted to try.


That "item" had crit/ias and all your other items will still have crit/ias. What other affixes are you suggesting you are going to get?

The developers are confused. They think we want to find "upgrades," but that's not the case. I'm sure everyone wants to farm interesting affixes that compliment skills.

I can't see that happening with the linear and uninspired design.


Sadly, I think a lot of people DO want to find upgrades. They want WoW minus raiding. And I think the devs are going to give it to them, because the devs don't understand Diablo either.


This. I don't want there to be this huge gradient of the same items where it feels like upgrades. I just want items and builds... the gradient from good to bad shouldn't be any where near as broad as it is now. The type of "upgrades" like you are talking about don't make sense to me in Diablo. If you get lucky and get some good drops you can bypass the upgrades I don't want continual upgrades I just want to find good loot and farm more good loot to trade and use for other characters... and of course to sell. This gradient of upgrades doesn't work unless the content drops loots that lets you advance to harder content that gives you loot that advances you to new ...etc. When you farm Inferno its always the same loot that is going to drop. So the "upgrade" style doesn't work unless you have content that has tiers and loot has tiers.
Edited by SmokeyMcBudd#1518 on 8/26/2013 1:12 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,942
well, at least wow has pve that is challenging? I assume? some kind of roadblock that makes you earn endgame loot.

I don't like the sound of this 2.0 stuff. Seeing as how they won't be bringing back the difficulty of release. They want casuals to farm "endgame"


Loot is completely random. Drops are based off time investment. This game isn't hard. The whole issue around this game is that they made it so you required end-game loot to farm all the end-game loot. They don't want to make it so casuals can farm end-game simply... they want to make it so you can grow and progress your character with more ways than just farming items. This was the case in D2. You could grow and design your character from playing the game without solely relying on drops. In D2 casuals had access to farming end-game quality loot also because of better itemization. Remember level 42 items being part of end-game builds? As long as you have a gear check before you can farm the gear you need to overcome that gear check... you are going to have people who say you can only beat the game by going to the AH or RMAH. End-game....GG stuff is still very very rare. Casuals should be able to play end-game... there is nothing wrong with that. But that doesn't mean they are going to get the same results as someone who plays end-game a whole lot more time.
Edited by SmokeyMcBudd#1518 on 8/26/2013 1:19 PM PDT
Reply Quote
What is the obsession these devs have with making people wait until "endgame" to get anything close to a good gameplay experience? I have to wait for 60 before I get real stat points. I have to wait for legendaries to drop before I get interesting affixes, and if I want items that really affect my gameplay I need multiple of them! People can trash talk TL2 all they want for the graphics or whatever bs reason, but they got itemization right!
Reply Quote
That's great, but what about rare items? Legendary gimmicks seem to be the only focus, but will rares have a chance to compete? Why should we rely on dismal drop rates for any chance of diversity? Rare items should roll interesting affixes as well.


Then what exactly would be legendary about legendary items if you could just get the same effect from some random yellows?


Somebody, once, a year ago or so ago, I don't remember who, eloquently wrote about itemization being about "holes". And the best items in the game should "plug more holes" not just offering the largest value for one or two affixes, but, would rather give a long list of useful affixes, thus "plugging more holes", (get your mind out of the gutter). For example,

legendary item X:

x-y base damage for z dps
+x lightning damage (with elemental damage effect added back, in this case, stun)
+5% damage to call of the ancients
+7% damage to whirlwind
+x defense
+25% damage to demons
+1% chance to become invulnerable for 2 sec after being hit
+2% damage taken added to life
+12 fury
+191 to vit
+77 to str
+56 to dex (non primary stat effects have been buffed significantly)
has one socket

rare item y

could roll 6-10 of the aforementioned affixes, with a chance to have higher values on the affixes.

Magic item z

could roll 2-7 of the aforementioned affixes, with a good chance as any to have higher value on the affixes.

Keeps magic and rares interesting while still respecting the magic<rare<legendary/set hierarchy with a small amount of overlap. It's called non linear itemization, and Diablo 3 needs it real bad.
Edited by Steveg#1241 on 8/26/2013 2:17 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Affixes that give things like "Chance to spawn worthless creature" and "Chance to cast worthless spell" are usually garbage.

Consistent, empowering abilities such as +skills, crushing blow, deadly strike, improved block rate, prevent monster heal, cannot be frozen, faster attack speed, faster hit recovery, and faster run/walk significantly change the way your character performs in combat.
Reply Quote
I'm sorry but loot 2.0 isn't suppose to be EVERY DROP IS A GODLY DROP.

OP needs to watch the loot 2.0 presentation again.
Edited by Xirio#1552 on 8/26/2013 2:47 PM PDT
Reply Quote
08/21/2013 05:45 AMPosted by SuboXone
So you see 2 new items and you already claim that loot 2.0 will fail. Wow. Good conclusion playing the new xpac and all... Oh, wait, you haven't played the new xpac and have no idea what you are talking about. Basing you conclusion on 1 legendary item they showed. Good job. Tell me more wisdom you behold about other new legendaries and new affixes...


oh id love to hear your take on the legendary items that were released with D3 in the beginning......

and the first legendary overhaul....

in fact id love to hear Blizzards take on it all....im sure the excuses would be "legendary".....
Reply Quote
Well,

Your whining is this thread is starting to become "legendary"
Reply Quote
Well,

Your whining is this thread is starting to become "legendary"


Mine?
Edited by Shurgosa#1196 on 8/26/2013 2:53 PM PDT
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]