Diablo® III

Proposed Change to Slayer/Thoughts on DW

I've long held the opinion that the disparity between DW and DML was due to the lack 5% IAS and Skill Bonus. In my opinion, D3's skill system is much better than D2's; however, it irks me that I can't tailor my gear to suit my build and Dual Wield.

Blizz: "You want a fancy Skill Bonus?"

DW Joe: "Yes."

Blizz: "Use a DML."

DW Joe: "But I want to DW."

Blizx: "Oh, well, use a DML."
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08/20/2013 04:44 PMPosted by Maniac
Seriously todays game devs should really be careful when they buff something in game


They panic buff everything and besides those who actually care about all this balance are the minority.

The majority are WoW kids would only cared about big yellow numbers. So anything that gives them that are gonna be selected. So the devs buff skills by increasing the damage and the majority are pleased.

Change some numbers which leads to bigger yellow numbers. Problem solved.
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@Redcell - I know you use DW alot and I am sure you have put alot of thought into this .. I wish you the best in this " wishlist " thread. I have put out a couple myself.

Let's look at the current state of DH weapon gearing options:

Manticore w/ DML
Bows ( Rares and Windy ) w/ DML
Calamity w/ DML

gives us APS / DPS / and large vit. And an option for a few random rolls like Disc / magic find etc ...

versus

DW -

Dannetta's set
Dannetta's with Calamity
All rares

Gives us less DPS and APS .. It puts us in roughly the same range as a RARE BOW setup. The game play feels like that.

In the interest of build diversity, along with the NAT slayer change we also need some changes to passive bonus and also an innate DW bonuses.

Some key areas missing in the DH gearing overall..

AoE / eDPS / Mobility to name a few.

The point I am trying to get at is :

If the -

Manticore can achieve the best PER HIT damage but low resource regen ( natively speaking)
Bows can achieve knockback/ LS etc with mid range APS / DPS
Calamity can achieve good APS with good DPS plus resource regen via shooting and 1.3 per second..

DW - needs to stand out at something..

1 - it must be able to achieve simular DPS
2 - it must be able to specialize in some area. Native Disc.. regen comes to mind. The legacy Nat. set shouldn't be our only option for this.

My personal take is that it should have a movespeed / attack speed / life regen / disc. regen bonus for DW. Especially the movespeed. DW is seen as a mobility weapon gearing option..


I like the idea of making DW option an advanced mobility option. Good thoughts BV
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DW needs to have a clear advantage in some area.

Manticore w/ DML = High Damage per hit with low innate hatred regen.
One Hand Crossbow = Shield option and high APS
DH's mechanics should be thus:

1000 dps on main hand / 1000 dps on off hand = equals 1500 dps in total. Not 1000 dps averaged. Manticore and Calamity uses DML to enhance / compliment innate advantages. DW actually deminishes them.. ie: 1500 dps calamity with 1000 dps rare will reduce the overall performance of the Calamity.

Does that make sense? Why should a kickass weapon become less because it is paired with a lesser dps weapon. It should retain it's DPS and what even is added gets added to it.

What benefits does DW have? Looks cool? I would like to say that 6% life steal and increased Disc bonus etc.... but as a option it is not as attractive. You would have to give up tooooo DPS for that.

I do agree that the biggest advantage to equipping DML has a clear advantage with high Vit / APS / skill bonus along with equal or very close Dex / Disc / hatred regen.

That is why improving the itimization won't benifit DW alone. The DML equipped will always an advantage. The DW mechanics needs to improve.

Here are some examples used already in game:

Barb's DW - 15% aps / off hand stat stick as option / Alternating damage per hand
Monks - 15% aps/ Main hand damage stats for spenders / skill bonus on WKL

DH's archery has zero skill bonus for DW. It's like they never intended for the DH to DW in the first place. A monk's set weapon is a diablo ( not DW ) and yet they have provisions for DW, Barb's weapon mechanics is the most well thought out etc.. DH is incomplete IMHO.. We are shown as the only class that sports DW as main weapons and yet we have the worst DW mechanics. ?? Thank Jay Wilson !!

As a wishlist item though I would love to see the DW on DH to have innate mobility advantage and the gameplay to have a feel of frequent reloading. Like shoot move / hide / regroup and unload - rinse and repeat .. I am thinking like two hand guns versus MK5 versus backpack machine gun ... ratatata .. haha.. I would love the bows to have a feel of MK5 rifle with an attached rocket launcher ...

Or gets 2 arrows to come out per shot on skills like HA .. 2 weapons equals two bullets to me..

That's just my 2cents..
Edited by BlackVenom#1754 on 8/21/2013 6:29 AM PDT
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Just had a brain fart.. This is an idea not though of yet I am sure..

DW gets a 10% to 25% weapon bonus added to the main hand. It should equal 1 radiant star ruby slotted. All hatred spenders are taken from the main hand. I am sure that the danetta's 133 dex bonus was suppose to reflect this but it doesn't scale as the end game gearing improves..

or

All generators gets double increase hatred regen.. . or hatred cost halfed. ( if anyone believes this is OP. Imagine all DH with unlimited hatred and we still won't equal eDPS compared to barbs / or monks WoL spam)

Overall I agree that DH weapon itemization needs simular .025 APS bonus added to our rolls. I would also like to see the "weapon %" bonus apply to both weapons when DWing...

@RedCell - +1 on that idea though.. I didn't mention it but love the idea..
Edited by BlackVenom#1754 on 8/21/2013 7:15 AM PDT
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@BlackVenom

Your discussion about the DW mechanics for the monk and barb was interesting. I'm certainly looking forward to seeing what the devs are going to do with our class.

My goal with this thread, and others, was to throw ideas at the devs (I believe they do, in fact, read the class forums). I'd like to thank you, you're always full of great ideas, and the others who have posted constructive feedback in this thread.
Edited by RedCell#1728 on 8/21/2013 7:37 AM PDT
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Some idea for DW (passive skill):

Archery:
DW : +10% CC and +10% chance to stun for 2 sec
or : +10% CC and + 20% damage to demon (We are Demon Hunter!)
or : +10% CC and + 12% MS (can go over the MS cap)
or : +10% CC and +50% hatred regen (with Hatred generator)
or : +10% CC and Hatred cost reduce by 25%
or : +10% CC and Cooldown are reduce by 25%

Thrill of the Hunt:
Every 7 seconds, your next skill that costs Hatred will immobilize your target for 2 seconds and if you are DW, both weapon shoot simultaneously. (damage= damage of weapon#1 + damage of weapon#2)

Numbing Traps:
Enemies hit by Fan of Knives, Spike Trap, Caltrops, Grenades and Sentry fire have their damage reduced by 20% for 3 seconds. Cooldown of FoK, Sentry, RoV and Thrill of the Hunt are reduce by 25% if you are DW.
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What has started as an idea to improve " Nat Slayer" has moved towards " Nat Slayer" usage in DW plus DW mechanics improvements. This is very consistant with all Hand Crossbow thread disscussion topics.

Lets examine the current drawbacks / advantages of Nat Slayer. Perhaps we can understand the Devs original intended usage and purpose for the weapon.

Low total DPS versus other weapons is the biggest issue which limits it's use w/ DML.
Crit. Chance 1% plus 2 piece Nat 7% bonus and cold damage makes it the most attractive as a stat stick for DW. But the current DW mechanics limits its attractiveness.

That is why the off hand slot should be treated as a utility slot. DML to enhance weapon charactoristic / Shield to enhance eHP / Weapon should increase DPS plus CC utilities.

That last one is the big one. Any weapon put into the off hand slot should not lower the damage of the main hand. A DML does not do this. A shield does not do this. Therefore a second weapon should add damage, not deminish the main hands damage.
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