Diablo® III

RoS Cinematic observations and theories

I had a few observations from the cinematic trailer that led me to start thinking:

1. Tyrael commented that "for a time, it seemed, we would know peace" which assumes that some time passed after Diablo was slain on the Silver Spire. The Black Soulstone remained in the High Heavens.

2. Tyrael goes on to say "but it was not to be. Diablo's essence lingers in the Black Soulstone" and as this is being said there's a black "smoke" or "shadow emanating from it. "I can not destroy the stone, nor allow its evil to remain within the Heavens." While he is saying this there is shading going on in the image of him, growing darker, and then it shows the other angels of the Angiris Council. Imperius is pointing and the other angels are all armed and seem disturbed. "And so it must be hidden even from the angels". I think this is suggesting that Diablo's evil was corrupting them. Just as Diablo was able to work Leoric's mind, as the Lord of Terror, even from within his own soulstone...his power was working their minds.

3. Tyrael takes the Black Soulstone back to Sanctuary where he recruits new Horadrim to assist him. He then finds a suitable hiding place. Judging by the images of the staircases winding downward it was a place deep down where he thought nobody would look. Somehow Malthael knows where to find the Black Soulstone. Perhaps this is a trait of his abilities as the aspect of wisdom? Only the Worldstone has proven to have the power sufficient to hide things from Malthael.

4. In the Gamespot Crusader game play video it shows the Naphalem approaching Westmarch when he meets the Horadrim Tyrael had sent to find him. The Nephalem then continues into the city through the sewers. Malthael seems to be turning people into reapers and blocking the Nephalem's path as he goes. So clearly Malthael is in Westmarch doing we're not told what. It would seem that perhaps Malthael is attacking the major cities of Sanctuary and bringing death to humanity. His motives are yet unknown.

So I'm thinking the Black Soulstone caused further corruption in Imperius. I believe he will play a part in RoS. Malthael wants to destroy all demonic beings, or at least that was his purpose at one point, so it stands to reason that is why he has taken the Black Soulstone (since all of the great evils are trapped within) and why he is attacking humanity. The BSS (because I'm tired of typing it) was designed to be able to contain limitless spirits so perhaps Malthael is putting all the spirits of the humans he has slain into the BSS. Perhaps Imperius joins him...given his obvious disdain for humanity?

Meanwhile the greater evils seek to escape the BSS. This would seem possible due to the scene in Act 3 when the 5 spirits that were contained in it attempted to escape and all the shadow creatures attack in the armory. Perhaps with all 7 greater evils it could be done? Perhaps Adria gets involved?

Comments? Thoughts?
Reply Quote
No comments? I was hoping to spark some discussion!
Reply Quote

Meanwhile the greater evils seek to escape the BSS. This would seem possible due to the scene in Act 3 when the 5 spirits that were contained in it attempted to escape and all the shadow creatures attack in the armory. Perhaps with all 7 greater evils it could be done? Perhaps Adria gets involved?


Tyrael said in the cinematic trailer that Diablo's "essence" lingered in the Black Soulstone, and he only mentioned Diablo, not any of the other evils. IMO it's unclear whether the other evils even still exist as individual entities anymore, since Diablo nommed them at the end of D3. We don't know the exact effect that killing Diablo had on all the other Evils. It may be only Diablo, the sole Prime Evil, left inside the Soulstone. I'm with you on Adria getting involved though. After Zoltan Kulle, she probably knows the most about the Soulstone.

2. Tyrael goes on to say "but it was not to be. Diablo's essence lingers in the Black Soulstone" and as this is being said there's a black "smoke" or "shadow emanating from it. "I can not destroy the stone, nor allow its evil to remain within the Heavens."


Speaking of Kulle, his Archives are still around, right? If there IS a way to permanently destroy the Black Soulstone and the evil inside it, it's in those archives. Granted, this is just a pet theory of mine, since I really liked Kulle as a character and felt he was woefully underused :)
Reply Quote
Tyrael said in the cinematic trailer that Diablo's "essence" lingered in the Black Soulstone, and he only mentioned Diablo, not any of the other evils. IMO it's unclear whether the other evils even still exist as individual entities anymore, since Diablo nommed them at the end of D3. We don't know the exact effect that killing Diablo had on all the other Evils. It may be only Diablo, the sole Prime Evil, left inside the Soulstone. I'm with you on Adria getting involved though. After Zoltan Kulle, she probably knows the most about the Soulstone.


That's a distinct possibility. Also Brother Malachi's (healer in New Tristram) babbling states:

What was once one shall become four, though the three shall become one, never will the four be whole.


It's been widely theorized that the "one" is Tethamet, the four are the lesser evils, and the three are the greater evils. The greater evils becoming one has occured when Diablo became the Prime Evil. The part saying never will the four be whole may mean you are right and the lesser evils are not in the Black Soul Stone. Of course that's just one possibility.

Speaking of Kulle, his Archives are still around, right? If there IS a way to permanently destroy the Black Soulstone and the evil inside it, it's in those archives. Granted, this is just a pet theory of mine, since I really liked Kulle as a character and felt he was woefully underused :)


I'm not sure if the BSS can be unmade in the archives or not. Perhaps the Anvil of Annihilation in the Hellforge?

There are theories floating around out there that Malthael is gathering souls (hence the title of the xpac) so that he can destroy all evil once and for all. If this is true, it would suggest all 7 evils are in that BSS, and that he's gathering the rest of what he considers evil souls. Presumably he would then allow the Nephalem to destroy him in a single act of martyrdom...thereby ridding the world of evil altogether.

Lots of fun theories! :)
Reply Quote
I'm not sure if the BSS can be unmade in the archives or not. Perhaps the Anvil of Annihilation in the Hellforge?


Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant that Kulle's Archives are probably the best source of information on the Soulstone; it was his life's work, and he didn't just build those archives to look pretty. If there's any information on its construction, inherent structure, etc., anything that could be useful for destroying it, it's probably in the archives. The actual method of destroying it is another matter.

There are theories floating around out there that Malthael is gathering souls (hence the title of the xpac) so that he can destroy all evil once and for all. If this is true, it would suggest all 7 evils are in that BSS, and that he's gathering the rest of what he considers evil souls. Presumably he would then allow the Nephalem to destroy him in a single act of martyrdom...thereby ridding the world of evil altogether.


He certainly seems to be killing a lot of normal people along the way :) It'd be a nice change of pace to have a villain who's more of a Well-Intentioned Extremist than just evil for evil's sake, though. I'm inclined to think that the power of all seven Evils is still in the Soulstone, but their individual consciousnesses are no longer a thing, and have been replaced by just Diablo.
Reply Quote
He certainly seems to be killing a lot of normal people along the way :) It'd be a nice change of pace to have a villain who's more of a Well-Intentioned Extremist than just evil for evil's sake, though. I'm inclined to think that the power of all seven Evils is still in the Soulstone, but their individual consciousnesses are no longer a thing, and have been replaced by just Diablo.


Agreed on Malthael. It's certainly possible that all of the individual consciousnesses are all one now. After all...they started out that way! :)
Reply Quote
As someone in another thread pointed out, El'druin cannot harm those with a righteous intent... the blade went through Maltheal not harming him...

Seems like we have our well intention extremist.
Reply Quote
As someone in another thread pointed out, El'druin cannot harm those with a righteous intent... the blade went through Maltheal not harming him...

Seems like we have our well intention extremist.


You'd think that the Sword of Justice could distinguish between someone who's crazy enough to believe their cause is righteous, and someone who's actually righteous.

I suppose it'd always work against demons (who are just straight-up evil), and maybe that's the point.
Reply Quote
The big question is how he made the transition from aspect of wisdom to death so hopefully they will fill in that gap from when he went missing to when he showed up now and as to why El' Druin cannot harm Malthael it is probably because Death is neutral, neither malicious or good and well you cant kill death i suppose.
Reply Quote
08/22/2013 08:27 PMPosted by CompleatWych
As someone in another thread pointed out, El'druin cannot harm those with a righteous intent... the blade went through Maltheal not harming him...


Maybe. I think the blade not going through Malthael has more to do with him now being the angel of death that cannot be harmed. Malthael walked right through the blade as it was not a threat to him. How could he know if the El'durin would harm him or not?
Reply Quote
08/24/2013 04:05 PMPosted by Adam
Maybe. I think the blade not going through Malthael has more to do with him now being the angel of death that cannot be harmed. Malthael walked right through the blade as it was not a threat to him. How could he know if the El'durin would harm him or not?
It is actually a fact that it was an intentional decision by Blizz to do that so they could point out that Malthael is not evil, corrupt, or anything of that sort. He is still acting as a member of the Heavenly Host.
Reply Quote
1)
"only one vote saved us from extinction"
If Malthael changed his mind, is no longer abstaning and wants to destroy the Sanctuary...
The result of Angiris Council voting would be a tie if I'm counting right.
And since Tyrael is just a mortal now, it can mean his vote has lesser weight...
So Malthael would just be executing the will of the Heaven.

2)
"What was once one shall become four, though the three shall become one, never will the four be whole."
Why do most people see seven lords here?
1 -> 4 -> 1 solo + 3 united
I personally always thought this is about Tyrael and El'druin...
3 pieces of sword + Tyrael falls from heaven, the sword became one piece again, but Tyrael was not expected to get it back...

3)
"Your service here is finished and you should all..."
...go, until I call upon you again.
Got it? :D
Reply Quote
If Malthael changed his mind, is no longer abstaning and wants to destroy the Sanctuary... The result of Angiris Council voting would be a tie if I'm counting right. And since Tyrael is just a mortal now, it can mean his vote has lesser weight... So Malthael would just be executing the will of the Heaven.
I'd be very surprised if any of the angels would be cool with that. I could imagine another vote, maybe, but not a retroactive change like that.

If another vote were to be held, Auriel and Ithereal would definitely both again vote in favor of humanity, and Malthael would definitely vote against. I have serious doubts about whether or not Tyrael would be allowed to vote in this decision because of his unknown stance as an Archangel. I'm sure we will find out in the Book of Tyrael where he stands in regards to the Council, but based on what we know so far, I can only imagine that his status has been shed or stripped. Nevertheless, if he was allowed to vote, he would certainly vote in favor and therefore judgement would be in favor. However, if he was not allowed to vote, the deciding vote would be left to Imperius. Now that would be fun.

I suppose this also assumes that Malthael's status as a council member still stands, and I think it does. We probably won't find out about for certain until RoS though.
Edited by Chris#1235 on 8/24/2013 10:55 PM PDT
Reply Quote
The way I've looked at Diablo himself and the Black Soulstone is like this...

The Black Soulstone has the souls of all seven great evils within it, but only Diablo had a physical seed in the mortal world (Leah). Take this and consider that Diablo has apparently always been considered the most powerful of The Seven, I look at as if Diablo has basically super-charged himself with the power of the rest of the group, not actually fusing into one supreme evil. A true fusion of the seven evils would look nothing like Diablo, who's very obviously the dominant one in the events of D3. Even if he's all spiky and has a more feminine frame from his female non-warrior host, it's still VERY much Diablo.

It's safe to assume that the Black Soulstone stayed in Heaven for a period of time, and I'm absolutely sure that a stone with ALL SEVEN of the great evils would corrupt pretty much anything except Tyreal in short order. So either it was sowing angst among the Angiris Council, or they're simply argueing about how to actually destroy this obscenely powerful artifact for good.

If Tyreal is trying to hide the Black Soulstone from *everybody*, including the Angiris Council, then it's entirely plausible that Maltheal figured it out and simply watched Tyreals movements. That or the Black Soulstone has already corrupted Maltheal, who would then be able to easily track it through the spirits in the stone.

What's probably happened is either:

A) A misguided Maltheal has an agenda against Humanity and wants to extinguish the mortal race before there Nephalem powers further manifest. Because remember, a group of mortal humans just destroyed "The Prime Evil", quite the feat even for the entire Angiris Council. So he thinks he can do so with the aid of the Black Soulstone, which is probably the most powerful artifact in existence now.

B) During it's assumed time in the Heavens, the Black Soulstone has succeeded in corrupting Maltheal, which explains how he found it. Maltheal is tricked into using the Stone to further his own goals, but is quickly overpowered/consumed by the Black Soulstones inhabitance. This would probably be a really big deal, and make the "Prime Evil" that much more powerful. Because this time we have one of the Angeris Council as a "host", and a piece of the Diamond Warrior or whatever his name was.

Either way, we'll probably end up having to fight the Prime Evil again, only a lot more powerful due to it consuming an extremely powerful Angel, 8/14 of the original spirits that comprised the creator of the entire universe. If we the end up fighting some sort of super-combined creature that has all of the Great Evils and all of the Angiris Council besides Tyreal as the ultimate-final boss of this game and it's final patch, I F%@$ing called it.
Edited by RedShift#1421 on 8/25/2013 4:33 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 1
I believe that Malteals intention is to unite both Tahtameets offspring and Anu's offspring back into
Just Anu, Demons and Angels all to be consumed into the intenty of Anu
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Death Knight
6675
Posts: 137
Didn't Tyreal take a position as the Aspect of Wisdom at the end of the original campaign? I'm almost certain he did, and in my mind that would mean A) Tyreal's votes (past and future) are still valid, and B) Malthael was sort of relieved of his position as a council member.

I do really like that Malthael has justice at heart, even if he is going totally a-hole mode at this point. Like someone pointed out earlier, Malthael's evil has some sort of logical goal behind it, which makes him much more interesting than any of the other Diablo villains imo.
Reply Quote
90 Human Death Knight
2055
Posts: 433
Also Brother Malachi's (healer in New Tristram) babbling states:

What was once one shall become four, though the three shall become one, never will the four be whole.

That quote takes place in Act I, long before Diablo merges with the other Evils. I always saw it as referring to Tyreal's fall: The 'what was once four' is Tyreal, the Archangel, falling and his sword scattering in three pieces. 'The three shall become one' is when you put the sword back together and restore Tyreal's memories. Finally, the last part is saying that Tyreal will never rise to be an Archangel again.

That's just my take on it, though.
Reply Quote
(SPOILER) here is Adria: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svMebVO8t_4
Reply Quote
Just a side-thought to the discussion... I am annoyed by this unstoppable ability by the Evils to corrupt everything, even Heaven itself. I know that falling from grace is ever more compelling drama than redemption, but it is being overused as a plotdriver in this mythos. Really, nothing is immune from evil, not even the archangels - the incarnations of Light??

Shouldn't it be logical that it works the way around also, demons can be redeemed. If the Seven Evils are inprisoned and in the custody of Heaven - the center of all Good, shouldn't they get "corrupted"?? How could the demons not win the war if they can turn even the archangels and the Crystal spire. Just sit tight and wait for the light to become tainted..

Of course angels and good guys can become corrupted, but there should be some logical limits whitin the story!

I just realized: The Angiris Council could take the black soulstone, evacate the Evil, put all themselves in there and become the Prime Goodness... :D Preferbly by using the Nephalem as a mortal host!
Reply Quote
Just a side-thought to the discussion... I am annoyed by this unstoppable ability by the Evils to corrupt everything, even Heaven itself. I know that falling from grace is ever more compelling drama than redemption, but it is being overused as a plotdriver in this mythos. Really, nothing is immune from evil, not even the archangels - the incarnations of Light??


I wouldn't jump to conclusions too soon about Malthael being corrupted by evil. The big question of why he wasn't harmed by El'Druin is yet to be answered. There is such a thing as "Chaotic Good"...

09/23/2013 11:09 AMPosted by Solidpontus
Shouldn't it be logical that it works the way around also, demons can be redeemed. If the Seven Evils are inprisoned and in the custody of Heaven - the center of all Good, shouldn't they get "corrupted"?? How could the demons not win the war if they can turn even the archangels and the Crystal spire. Just sit tight and wait for the light to become tainted..


I suppose it is possible that demons can flip. The only angel of any note that has been recorded as being "corrupted" is Izual. The Prime Evils forced his spirit into a demon body creating the monstrosity he became. The only other "fallen angel" of note was Inarius and he was only considered fallen because he rebelled against the Angiris Council.

09/23/2013 11:09 AMPosted by Solidpontus
I just realized: The Angiris Council could take the black soulstone, evacate the Evil, put all themselves in there and become the Prime Goodness... :D Preferbly by using the Nephalem as a mortal host!


The BSS's corruption was well known by Tyrael and that's why he removed it and hid it in Sanctuary. See # 2 in my OP. There was too much to risk (such as the scenario you suggested) to leave the BSS in the High Heavens.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]