Diablo® III

Why uncapped paragon is bad

yes, but if you want to keep at least somewhat a healthy experience for lower difficulties then you simply cant allow paragorn stats to work for characters that have not reached their max level. Its already bad enough as it is with the auction house and super cheap low lvl items that have reduecd level requirements and that you can throw the best gems in every socket since they dont have level requriements (Hell even D2 had those ...). I still dont understand how they overlooked those things ...

I mean its pretty frustrating to start a new game wit ha new character that has not some powerfull items and you just want to play a rather normal game just to have someone join your multiplayer game whos literaly rushing trough the content ...


I totally know where you are coming from here, as I like to progress traditionally as well, but the ability to twink characters isn't an oversight by the devs, it's entirely intentional.

This was mentioned way back in the early days by Blues and devs alike, and it's why items like the HF ring don't have a level req. Same goes for gems and the whole idea of reduced level req. gear. It's all intentional.

So yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if paragon stats are enabled for allocation on new characters.
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Doesn't anyone consider the simple fact that an easy way to deal with this would be that when you enter PVP areas, etc, your paragon bonuses are null and void? Your stats would all be set based on just your base level? Easy enough to deal with.

Paragon levels and bonuses when farming. Base level stats in PVP.
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Why not?

If you play the game for the first time, everthing looks and feels new.

After a while, your 10th level 60 HC barb died, due to DC or your own fault, your'e happy to use every vehicle to get back to a lvl 60/70 char.

Problem?
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First off, Paragon level is account wide.
Second, EACH Character get's their own set of points. As stated by an above poster, if you have a 199th PLVL Toon, all of your characters and even new ones you make will have 199 points to dash into their own Paragon stats.
Paragon DOES have a limit, and that's the stats themselves which seem to Cap at 50. Currently there are 4 Stats that we know of, Core, Utility, Attack and Defense. That's 200 points right there, so 2 PLVL 100s would be the max you'd achieve any way in terms of "upping one's stats" across any toon. Any more than that and the PLVL is only effecting the base stats of the PLVLed toon. We will see if they add more Paragon Stats in future.
Lastly, you can respec any character's Paragon Stats.

SO this means that no, you're not being forced into playing only one character. In fact it makes people level new ones faster, probably, encouraging more and more casuals especially to make an play through new characters.
This means the addition (one of anyway) of true customization which did not exist before hand. In D2 you could spec your Stat Points at 5 per level and each stat meant something for EVERY class. D3 RUINED this with having each class only get what they really need from their base stat while Vita remains a common pool stat. Paragon Stat leveling is almost like the return of the old stat points, letting you, the player, control how your character grows and plays; almost like the old days.
Lastly the economy will adjust accordingly with the new Loot system.

At first DEMAND WILL DROP
which means things will get stupidly cheap.
For one, End game is reset and one's currently owned 1.5k DPS Skorn will soon be worth squat.
To make it even worse, until people start hitting a gear level peak, selling any upgrades you get while venturing to 70 will be worthless because the game will be giving EVERYONE upgrades in a timely manner through smart drops.

Eventually, as more and more people peak however, the AH will once again be flooded with gear, and amazing gear at that since the Loot 2.0 system will try to give you gear within your toon's range of level and gear level. However, there will be a limit in the RNG for the items you receive so most of what you get after you reach that point you can flood the AH with; making it easier to lower levels to get HUGE upgrades rather than smaller ones.
At this point, the AH will again, be prime. But not required. It will simply add "Easy Mode" until those toons hit their peaks as well.

I have a feeling that after about a year, the AH will be used for not much more than it is now, but under easier terms. Mainly a Crafting Supply store and "Bobs Easy Twink for Leveling" equipment outlets to power level newer toons. The End Game will see a drastic drop in it's use and you're finds and use of the Mystic will drive your upgrades from then on.

Also, demand for all sorts of gear will suddenly not be so rigid to requiring you to only get gear with your Base Stats on it and let you be flexible as to what stats you may want to compliment your Paragon spec.
if this happens, than most gear should see an evened out level of Demand because more of the gear may be relevant to players choices instead of being forced to be STR and only STR on classes like the Barb.
As demand over all drops, the prices should shallow out too.

Over all, you'll see far less reliance on the AH to progress and only the severely impatient will use it. Like myself. Lol
I'm no credit card warrior, but if I have the gold, I'll spend it.
Why else would you be allowed to accumulate so much? To wipe one's !@# with?
There are only two things you should be spending gold In-game with in my opinion. Repairs and crafting. You'll obviously have very little reason to spend the gold on Item Venders. They are going to have nothing compared to what you'll see drop with Loot 2.0 and the Mystic further sinks this with the option to customize your item's stats similar to Charsi's old imbuing.
Edited by Einharjar#1817 on 8/24/2013 8:32 AM PDT
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And besides, this is Diablo and it's not competitive in any conceivable way.

It should be. Just look at POE....!@#$ game but people play it for the competitive ladders. Competition is good in multiplayer games.

you need PvP in Diablo? lol
just play SC2 or LoL instead


Alot of people bought diablo with the hope that there would be pvp (like there was in beta). D2 fans would also like pvp. SC2 and LoL are very bad examples of pvp, and no i don't want to play either.



meaning to say
today you might have 10x plvl 100 characters.

where the account wide paragon 2.0 is released.

all your character are now roughly plvl 195-199 with a single unified paragon level.

example, you now level up your barb to paragon 200, immediately all other characters are also plvl 200 and gain 1 point more to allocate. (I mean, basically your xp is no longer associated with individual characters but the entirety of your account)


I really think they will revamp the xp multiplier. Otherwise The experience 60 onwards would be insane.
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First off, Paragon level is account wide.
Second, EACH Character get's their own set of points. As stated by an above poster, if you have a 199th PLVL Toon, all of your characters and even new ones you make will have 199 points to dash into their own Paragon stats.
Paragon DOES have a limit, and that's the stats themselves which seem to Cap at 50. Currently there are 4 Stats that we know of, Core, Utility, Attack and Defense. That's 200 points right there, so 2 PLVL 100s would be the max you'd achieve any way in terms of "upping one's stats" across any toon.


4 stats each tab (capped at 50), 4 tabs? 4*50 = 200, 200*4 = 800 to max every stat? Thats assuming each tab has 4 and not more/less.
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i think 50 in each such as vit, dex, str, intel <- Core 1 paragon level = 1 point,

1 point = 5 points in core . For exmaple if you max 50 paragon point in str you will get = total 250 str as a benefit to your toon
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I personally don't care what other's decide to do when paragon goes uncapped. I don't get why everyone is worried about "their friends and their neighbors", just play the game and move on if you don't like it.

Want to be an elitest? cool, but I play solo 95% of the time so no skin off my back.

Will magic/gold find still be capped at 300%? If so, it might cause some issues when the characters are so OP that they rip through everything like a wet bag was their enemies.
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you dont even know how paragon experience will scale past lvl 100 yet. getting from 100-105 could take longer than it took to get to 100 in the first place. Secondly, maybe account wide paragon will be based on total experience gained rather than just the levels. there are many ways it can be balanced and players who honestly played and leveled the most characters should have an edge, it was earned.

Botting and multiboxing may be issues, but that is what banwaves are for. Hopefully the Xpack improves on banning players who bot to high paragon while farming loot for us all.
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08/24/2013 05:28 PMPosted by Sethik
where does it say paragon levels arent capped?


In literally every interview from gamescom, including the actual conference presentation.

08/24/2013 08:30 AMPosted by Einharjar
That's 200 points right there, so 2 PLVL 100s would be the max you'd achieve any way in terms of "upping one's stats" across any toon


That's not correct. It accumulates the experience of your account, not the flat number of paragon levels. So 2 x P100 characters would equate to around P124 with current scaling. Obviously the scaling will change but still, it won't accumulate the flat levels.

Depending on that scaling, maxing a certain category might be possible but that would mean the player is ignoring all the other stats in other categories.

If the player needs 800+ points to max out their stats, it's likely no one will every reach that point. Also, each category doesn't have the same amount of stats, it's already confirmed that "Defense" has 5 stats; Health%, Armor, Dodge %, Block % and All-Resist. And we don't know all of the stats for "Utility" yet.
Edited by DamienJohn#1321 on 8/24/2013 6:00 PM PDT
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if someone plays 500k hours of their life to get to paragon 150, they deserve what they get.
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They talked about removing Hell mode cause it feels redundant and its kinda takes too long to level a char to 60 after you leveled several imes before.

I guess for now removing difficulty will be so much of work of balancing(?) that they cant give it and instead they will give us better stat when leveling so its supposedly faster.

thats hy this idea is not that bad, players have been demanding this for a long time(their first response was Hellfire ring)
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There will be a point where the experience points needed for the next paragon level takes years to reach, a sort of saturation point due to the incremental experience points added per paragon level. I don't know how they will work out a formula for the incremental values though.
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08/22/2013 09:49 AMPosted by Shykon
You are made to feel like you are forced to play the character you invested the points into at the start.

You don't have to feel forced to do anything. Bots are going to be the new maphack. Blizzard will ban-wave people every time they feel like they're not making enough money and BOOM! 10k new games/expansions purchased again.

You might think of this as underhanded, but that's how they funded Warcraft and WoW's development.

Edit: the only downside to this is that I have a feeling that this game isn't going to be as popular as D2 was and will therefore not be as forthcoming.
Edited by Stinkyfinger#1801 on 8/27/2013 10:29 AM PDT
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