Diablo® III

Why couldn't the Black Soulstone

Why couldn't Tyrael and the Angels destroy the Black Soulstone?
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My understanding is that a demon never truly dies - their spirit returns to Hell where it eventually (ie takes ages) reforms and regrows in strength.

By keeping the demon lord's spirits trapped in the soulstone, they can never do this.
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Actually, I could be wrong.

When you kill Azmodan and place his soul in the Blackstone, Tyrael declares something like:
"Finally, all the lords of Hell are captured within the soulstone! Once we destroy the stone, their evil be gone forever!"
Adria replies: "But destroying the stone is no easy matter. There are rituals to be prepared. Come, let us return to the keep".

Sooo, Tyrael DID intend to the destroy the soulstone, and with it, the captured souls forever.
It seems that he has now changed his mind, and instead wants to just hide it in some dark crypt, no doubt full of undead and/or demons as all dungeons/crypts in Sanctuary are. Not destroying the stone will clearly lead to it being sought, found, and used for evil purposes, or releasing the 7 lords of Hell again. Why he no longer wants the 7 leaders of Hell gone for good and decides to keep it intact with the likelihood of it being found again is beyond me.
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In Diablo 2, our hero decends to hell just to destroy the Soul Stones of the Prime Evils. And he did this because he was guided by Tyrael.

Tyrael tells Marius to destroy Baal's soulstone (End Act 2 Cinematic)
He also tells the hero to destroy Mephisto's and Diablo's soul stones.

"Hinding the soul stones" was not part of his book.

The hero did manage to destroy all 3 soul stones by the end of D2 LOD, but Tyrael's plan didn't quite work because Adria emprisioned the Evil Souls into the Black Soul Stone.

Like you both said, this decision of Tyrael to hide the Black Soul Stone sounds like a massive plot hole if you ask me. Specially considering what Psyberus just said:

08/24/2013 07:40 PMPosted by Psyberus
"Finally, all the lords of Hell are captured within the soulstone! Once we destroy the stone, their evil be gone forever!"
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Why can't it be fact that he literally cannot destroy it, meaning that he has tried and failed many times.
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100 Draenei Death Knight
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Posts: 577
They will likely address this because it's not really a subtle plot hole. Any person with half a brain watching the trailer was probably asking why it can't be destroyed.
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You can destroy a soulstone with the Hammer of Hellforge and the Anvil of Annihilation (as seen in D2). The problem is it STILL doesn't truly destroy the spirit. It sends them to the Dark Abyss where they were created. It is suggested that they can still return. This is why the spirits were trapped in soulstones and hidden on Sanctuary to begin with. You can never truly destroy them once and for all...you can only hope to contain them for eternity (or at least that's what the lore said at one time LOL).
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08/24/2013 10:16 PMPosted by Zaknaril
You can destroy a soulstone with the Hammer of Hellforge and the Anvil of Annihilation (as seen in D2). The problem is it STILL doesn't truly destroy the spirit. It sends them to the Dark Abyss where they were created. It is suggested that they can still return. This is why the spirits were trapped in soulstones and hidden on Sanctuary to begin with. You can never truly destroy them once and for all...you can only hope to contain them for eternity (or at least that's what the lore said at one time LOL).


I don't understand...

If we consider that the destruction of the Soul Stones isn't a solution to get rid of them, why would Tyrael ask the hero of D2 to destroy all the soul stones?

If we consider that the destruction of the Soul Stones is a solution to get rid of them, why did they need Tal Rasha to sacrifice himself to contain Baal? Why not simply destroy Baal's Soul stone and end it all.

I don't understand the lore well enough to answer these...can someone clarify that to me, please?
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08/24/2013 11:06 PMPosted by Sucrilhus
I don't understand the lore well enough to answer these...can someone clarify that to me, please?
Originally, soulstones were meant as a containment for the souls of Mephisto, Baal, and Diablo. They were meant to be permanent, and from what we know, they would have been if it was not for Izual who had knowledge of soulstones, and more specifically, their flaws. Izual was Tyrael's right hand man, so Izual gained this knowledge directly from Tyrael before the events of the Dark Exile. It is important to note that the soulstones were likely crafted at or before this time. Unfortunately, Izual was captured and corrupted by Hell during an assault in the Realm of Destruction. While tortured, he gave up the secrets of soulstones, so the Prime Evils came up with a plan to start a coup in Hell, called the Dark Exile, with intentions to exploit the flaws in soulstones while on Sanctuary. The Dark Exile occurred when the four Lesser Evils rose up against the Primes and banished them to Sanctuary.

Skip forward some amount of time until their presence on Sanctuary was noticed by Tyrael, who formed the Horadrim and gifted them the soulstones to contain the Evils. Because the Evils knew how to corrupt the soulstones, they did exactly that, which directly leads to the events in Diablo I and Diablo II.

It is important to note that between the events of Diablo I and Diablo II, Diablo's original (possibly) plan changed while speaking to Adria (who likely had the knowledge of the Black Soulstone) while possessing Aidan. It is also likely that this new plan was selfish, and was not ran by any of the other Evils, especially not Belial or Azmodan (although at some point, Azmodan figured it out). The new plan was to become the Prime Evil.

Now the situation is that the thee Prime Evils are walking freely on Sanctuary with no form of permanent containment. When Mephisto and Diablo are slain, their souls are trapped yet again within the stones, but they are already corrupted and must be destroyed. So the stones are taken to the Hellforge and the souls of Mephisto and Diablo are sent to the Black Abyss to stay dormant until rising in Hell once more.

Meanwhile, Baal was busy corrupting the Worldstone, which is the body that the soulstones were created from. This has a two pronged effect; first, it would slowly corrupt humanity and tip the scales of creation permanently in the favor of Hell, and it would also make the creation of more soulstones impossible. When Baal was slain, his soul had already been fused the Worldstone, so Tyrael had no choice but to destroy it, which had the same effect on Baal's soul as the Hellforge would.

While the plan of corrupting humanity was unsuccessful, they did succeed in making the creation of more soulstones impossible. However, as stated earlier, we now know that Diablo's plan was a little more intricate. At some point before all of the Evils deaths (except Diablo's, who had some of his essence laid within Leah for her entire life to mask his presence from the other Evils), their souls were marked. It is still unknown whether or not the souls ever made it to the Black Abyss, but nevertheless, when the Black Soulstone (whose origins are still unclear) was 'activated,' the souls of all Evils were trapped inside of it. This, of course, was intended to spawn the Prime Evil and dominate creation.
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In case anybody forgot the actual time-line...

Prior to Diablo 2, Adrea "tags" each of the Prime & Lesser Evil's souls, binding them to the Black Soulstone. When there physical forms and there original Soulstone's are destroyed, instead of being outright and permanently destroyed, there spirits/essence/souls are instead transfered to the Black Soulstone.

So then the (True) heroes of Sanctuary massacre 5 of the Great Evils, leaving Belial & Azmodan remaining. 20 Years later, they're both killed, and there souls bound to the Black Soulstone. Then Adrea betrays the group and gives Leah over to the 7 Evils, utterly destroying what was there and unleashing Uber-Mega-Penultimate-Diablo. Who's promptly killed... Again....

/end Backstory.

More than likely the Black Soulstone can't simply be taken to the Hellforge and hit with a large hammer. As was the case with the other Soulstones. There's probably lots of magic and whatnot that needs to enacted upon it, and some sort of special tool/weapon needed to break it... Or some magical pit somewhere. Either way, the Black Soulstone is probably being hidden on earth because of how volitile it would be. One Prime Evil can corrupt an entire town, but all seven could probably drive the Angiris Council mad in short order.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
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What makes no sense to me, is that Tyrael specifically says they need to capture Azmodan inside of the black soulstone with Belial and destroy it. "Lest all these Evils be reborn."

Image of quote.

http://imgur.com/IpVOakc
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Well from what has been explained (which is very little) the Dark Abyss is where the evils go if their soulstones are destroyed in the fashion that Tyrael directed in D2. We know the Dark Abyss is the birthplace of evil. It's never really been discussed as to whether banishing an evil to the Dark Abyss permanently rids the universe of them though...
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D2:

-2 soulstones destroyed at the Hellforge (Mephisto's "rush4forge!!!111" and Diablo's in a cutscene)
-El'Druin destroys the corrupted worldstone. The WORLDSTONE.

D3:

Tyrael, D3 vanilla:
-"we need to get teh black soulstone to capture the souls and destroy it (this plan worked previously of course it'll work again)"
-"oh all the prime evils are in the soulstone, this is great news good job Adria" --> plothole city
-"you killed DIABLA PRIME, good job Nephalem the world is safe forever again"

Tyrael, Reaper of Souls:
-"oh noes the world is not safe again!"
-"I can't break this stone, I don't know why, but I can't! what is hellforge? how i cut with sowrd?"
-"oh noes MALTHAEL, maybe I should have brought the Nephalem w/ and not these newby horadrims. Darn it Nephalem why u so busy farming A3 mp10? u wont find upgrade just use RMAH!"

Am I missing anything? On a serious note they could improve the story drastically by making Tyrael evil. Perhaps becoming mortal made Tyrael mortal-like and the events that transpired in D3vanilla were actually orchestrated by Tyrael for his own greed and desire to control the high heavens (Kulle alluded to this)? Perhaps Malthael "extracted" the "good soul" out of Tyrael in the cutscene (to add to the black soulstone perhaps) and all that's left now is his corruption?

Tyrael not being evil means he's just the dumbest being in Diablo history, even dumber then the lords of hell telling you their next move. "you just destroyed my hell rift? HAHAHA I still got another one over there, you wont destroy that one too :3". Alternatively the theory that Tyrael was somehow replaced by Belial (or perhaps corrupted by Belial) would make for a very strong storyline and shore up all the stupidness of the lords of hell. (if part of Tyrael was in the black soulstone they could explain why the lords of hell seemingly helped you destroy them, his soul fought their intentions blah blah whatevs)
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Then again, D2 Tyrael expected *Marius* of all people to destroy Baal's soulstone. And why would Baal care so much about it if it's broken anyway? In fact, why did none of the Evils destroy their respective soulstone following their escape?

The whole soulstone plot seems contrived to begin with, if you ask me. And doomed to fail, as a sequel was inevitable and there cannot be a Diablo series without the titular villain. Blizzard wasn't going to permanently kill him off in the first sequel, wasn't it?
Edited by JohnnyZeWolf#1953 on 8/25/2013 5:32 PM PDT
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RoS' writers address the alleged Black Soulstone plothole:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnyQ6eMae5o

According to them, since the Black Soulstone isn't coming from the Worldstone like the regular Soulstones, Tyrael doesn't know if it can be destroyed by the Hellforge nor does he want to find out the hard way. So sealing it away seems the best option.
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Well I guess that settles that. Thanks for the link!
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maybe I should have brought the Nephalem w/ and not these newby horadrims. Darn it Nephalem why u so busy farming A3 mp10? u wont find upgrade just use RMAH!"


+10
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RoS' writers address the alleged Black Soulstone plothole:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnyQ6eMae5o

According to them, since the Black Soulstone isn't coming from the Worldstone like the regular Soulstones, Tyrael doesn't know if it can be destroyed by the Hellforge nor does he want to find out the hard way. So sealing it away seems the best option.
Interesting, but not surprising that the writers retcon D3 less then a year after it was released...

I mean honestly, Tyrael's plan from the start was to put the demons in the black soulstone and then "shatter it" and now he's just not sure if he can do so? Yikes! Making him the aspect of wisdom seems a little backwards, aspect of ignorance would be more fitting!
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Posts: 28
The black soulstone can't be shattered because it's currently convenient for the story they want to tell.

Don't point out the Hellforge in Diablo 2, or the dialogue in Diablo 3. They'll just retcon it if you do.
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The Blackstone is a MAN made soulstone, it is NOT angelic at all, if Tyrael and the angels did destroy/attempt to destroy the stone, they might accidently end up RELEASING all evils instead of destroying them, and the hellforge only works on angelic soulstones, not the one made by Zoltun Kulle.

i.e., mostly likely destroying it would do a lot more harm than good
Edited by Raiden#1100 on 9/12/2013 11:41 AM PDT
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