Diablo® III

Why couldn't the Black Soulstone

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RoS' writers address the alleged Black Soulstone plothole:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnyQ6eMae5o

According to them, since the Black Soulstone isn't coming from the Worldstone like the regular Soulstones, Tyrael doesn't know if it can be destroyed by the Hellforge nor does he want to find out the hard way. So sealing it away seems the best option.
Indeed! This post may offer some additional food for thought on the subject as well. :)
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Tyrael, Reaper of Souls:-"oh noes the world is not safe again!"-"I can't break this stone, I don't know why, but I can't! what is hellforge? how i cut with sowrd?"-"oh noes MALTHAEL, maybe I should have brought the Nephalem w/ and not these newby horadrims. Darn it Nephalem why u so busy farming A3 mp10? u wont find upgrade just use RMAH!"


I LOL'd

I miss badass angel tyreal

he always gave me the feeling in diablo 2 that he really wanted to help us but was forbidden and did what he could.

now he just looks like a supersized *insert your favorite famous bald guy here*

even if he lost his wings and fell I still think he should have retained the hood/armor look

and I miss the old voice actor / echo effect of him being an angel too.
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RoS' writers address the alleged Black Soulstone plothole:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnyQ6eMae5o

According to them, since the Black Soulstone isn't coming from the Worldstone like the regular Soulstones, Tyrael doesn't know if it can be destroyed by the Hellforge nor does he want to find out the hard way. So sealing it away seems the best option.

Do they address the whole "Oops it fell over the edge!" dumb moment that Blizzard seems intent on retconning out of the story?
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09/16/2013 07:53 PMPosted by DOWNFALL
Tyrael, Reaper of Souls:-"oh noes the world is not safe again!"-"I can't break this stone, I don't know why, but I can't! what is hellforge? how i cut with sowrd?"-"oh noes MALTHAEL, maybe I should have brought the Nephalem w/ and not these newby horadrims. Darn it Nephalem why u so busy farming A3 mp10? u wont find upgrade just use RMAH!"


I LOL'd

I miss badass angel tyreal

he always gave me the feeling in diablo 2 that he really wanted to help us but was forbidden and did what he could.

now he just looks like a supersized *insert your favorite famous bald guy here*

even if he lost his wings and fell I still think he should have retained the hood/armor look

and I miss the old voice actor / echo effect of him being an angel too.


badass angel tyreal


diablo 2 that he really wanted to help us but was forbidden and did what he could


You have a pretty skewed view of what makes a character a 'badass'. The only thing 'badass' he did in D2 is when he destroyed a near-vital part of Sanctuary just to save humanity.

He does it again in D3; he's not afraid of sacrifice. The only thing about Tyrael that changed in D3 is his voice, big deal.
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D2:

-2 soulstones destroyed at the Hellforge (Mephisto's "rush4forge!!!111" and Diablo's in a cutscene)
-El'Druin destroys the corrupted worldstone. The WORLDSTONE.

D3:

Tyrael, D3 vanilla:
-"we need to get teh black soulstone to capture the souls and destroy it (this plan worked previously of course it'll work again)"
-"oh all the prime evils are in the soulstone, this is great news good job Adria" --> plothole city
-"you killed DIABLA PRIME, good job Nephalem the world is safe forever again"

Tyrael, Reaper of Souls:
-"oh noes the world is not safe again!"
-"I can't break this stone, I don't know why, but I can't! what is hellforge? how i cut with sowrd?"
-"oh noes MALTHAEL, maybe I should have brought the Nephalem w/ and not these newby horadrims. Darn it Nephalem why u so busy farming A3 mp10? u wont find upgrade just use RMAH!"

Am I missing anything? On a serious note they could improve the story drastically by making Tyrael evil. Perhaps becoming mortal made Tyrael mortal-like and the events that transpired in D3vanilla were actually orchestrated by Tyrael for his own greed and desire to control the high heavens (Kulle alluded to this)? Perhaps Malthael "extracted" the "good soul" out of Tyrael in the cutscene (to add to the black soulstone perhaps) and all that's left now is his corruption?

Tyrael not being evil means he's just the dumbest being in Diablo history, even dumber then the lords of hell telling you their next move. "you just destroyed my hell rift? HAHAHA I still got another one over there, you wont destroy that one too :3". Alternatively the theory that Tyrael was somehow replaced by Belial (or perhaps corrupted by Belial) would make for a very strong storyline and shore up all the stupidness of the lords of hell. (if part of Tyrael was in the black soulstone they could explain why the lords of hell seemingly helped you destroy them, his soul fought their intentions blah blah whatevs)


Oh and you were not led by the nose in the first two Diablo's. Well you would be wrong there, D1 led you by the nose the whole time. Yellow water that no doubt had something to do with the demons and foul beasts you were slaying. More so if you spoke to the other NPC's in town about each quests.

D2 was even worse in that regard. It did not take an Einstein to figure out the the stones in Stony Field where there to help your rescue Cain. The same with the bark of the magical tree.

None of the Diablo stories are suppose to be a big mystery that would take a super sleuth to figure it out.
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Because destroying the soulstone sends them to the black abyss, from which they can return after some time. Entrapping them in the black soulstone, keeps their spirit in the stone, and they cannot be released unless someone or something releases them. Keeping them in the stone prevents them from being able to return on their own, they need aid. Smashing their soulstones makes it to where they cannot be aided back, but can return after some time. Hiding the stone vs destroying it just has a higher reward, but a higher risk.

A good example I would think is Tal Rasha with Baal.
Edited by Jakkal07#1187 on 9/16/2013 9:46 PM PDT
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You have a pretty skewed view of what makes a character a 'badass'. The only thing 'badass' he did in D2 is when he destroyed a near-vital part of Sanctuary just to save humanity.

He does it again in D3; he's not afraid of sacrifice. The only thing about Tyrael that changed in D3 is his voice, big deal.


First of all - what people think makes Tyrael, or any character or anything for that matter, badass is entirely subjective and what works for him might not work for you might not work for someone else. And that's perfectly fine.

That being said, while the D3 Tyrael isn't afraid of sacrifice, more has changed about him than simply his voice... For one, he's no longer an angel. Pretty big change right there. He's also actively assisting the player, another fairly large change. Not to mention that in D2 there was always the thought that he could, if he wished it, unleash holy retribution and smite demons in such a way that would make the player look impotent.

Enter Diablo 3. He's weak. Even when fighting the demons he barely hurts them, they're not afraid of him. The demons aren't afraid of the mighty archangel of justice/wisdom because he's not who he once was. Not an archangel, not even an angel. Just a mortal, and not even a fearsome mortal warrior at that. He doesn't instill awe, or fear, or respect any longer. And that... presence... he had in D2 (along with the impressive visual appearance), is lost in D3, and that is what I think people are complaining about when they whine about the D3 Tyrael.
Edited by Malephar#1304 on 9/16/2013 9:57 PM PDT
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D2:

-2 soulstones destroyed at the Hellforge (Mephisto's "rush4forge!!!111" and Diablo's in a cutscene)
-El'Druin destroys the corrupted worldstone. The WORLDSTONE.

D3:

Tyrael, D3 vanilla:
-"we need to get teh black soulstone to capture the souls and destroy it (this plan worked previously of course it'll work again)"
-"oh all the prime evils are in the soulstone, this is great news good job Adria" --> plothole city
-"you killed DIABLA PRIME, good job Nephalem the world is safe forever again"

Tyrael, Reaper of Souls:
-"oh noes the world is not safe again!"
-"I can't break this stone, I don't know why, but I can't! what is hellforge? how i cut with sowrd?"
-"oh noes MALTHAEL, maybe I should have brought the Nephalem w/ and not these newby horadrims. Darn it Nephalem why u so busy farming A3 mp10? u wont find upgrade just use RMAH!"


This was absolutely hilarious! Thanks for the epic lols :D
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idk..i take it as the Black Soulstone was made by Zoltun Kulle..

and lets not forget what they (The Horadrim/Tyrael) had to do to ZK..placed his head, body and blood in different tombs..because he was apparently immortal otherwise..

so if ZK is..essentially a Nephalem(who are stronger then both demons and angels but lack eternal life)..who discovered immortality/power or w/e..and spent absurd amounts of time to create the Black Soulstone..with the intent of capturing all the lords of hell and then using that power to bring heaven to its knees..putting Nephalems at the top of the food chain (his dialogue indicates his intent is to put humans above angels and demons) i would imagine that BS is essentially immune to angelic/demonic methods of destroying it..and even if attempted probably has traps..

TLDR: guy who made BS hated angels and demons..so BS is prob angel and demon proof..(destruction)

ps: i also think ZK is probably the most interesting character in D3..backstory/dialogue..hes just one giant cool story
Edited by Rot#1226 on 9/17/2013 1:06 AM PDT
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Couldn't we chalk up Tyrael's earlier belief that it could be destroyed to his confidence in Adria's know-how? Does he ever mention destroying it after her betrayal?
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If they cant destroy the black soulstone on the Hellforge because *its to risky*, why even trust Adria in the first place? Why imprison the evils in the black soulstone just because a stranger told us so?

Its basically just a big plothole and the only way to adress it is to try to revisit the Hellforge shatter it and see what happens. But judging from the RoS opening it wont happen.

And why Tyrael was a badass in D2? Because he was wiping the floor with Diablo until Marius released Baal, while in D3 he cant defeat anything. It also didnt help that Blizz decided to just change his SPECIES for some reason.
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Blizz did not change tyraels specieis mefisto, did you you even play the game? He's a angel who's mortal, simple as that
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idk..i take it as the Black Soulstone was made by Zoltun Kulle..

and lets not forget what they (The Horadrim/Tyrael) had to do to ZK..placed his head, body and blood in different tombs..because he was apparently immortal otherwise..

so if ZK is..essentially a Nephalem(who are stronger then both demons and angels but lack eternal life)..who discovered immortality/power or w/e..and spent absurd amounts of time to create the Black Soulstone..with the intent of capturing all the lords of hell and then using that power to bring heaven to its knees..putting Nephalems at the top of the food chain (his dialogue indicates his intent is to put humans above angels and demons) i would imagine that BS is essentially immune to angelic/demonic methods of destroying it..and even if attempted probably has traps..

TLDR: guy who made BS hated angels and demons..so BS is prob angel and demon proof..(destruction)

ps: i also think ZK is probably the most interesting character in D3..backstory/dialogue..hes just one giant cool story


Kulle story bro :P

Another thought is, they only thought they could destroy it because Adria said they could.

Also, is it really safe to take an ultra corrupting super demon filled power source/soulstone into the depths of hell, where the energy will attract all the demons, not to mention the corrupting force it might have on the journey.
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D2:

-2 soulstones destroyed at the Hellforge (Mephisto's "rush4forge!!!111" and Diablo's in a cutscene)
-El'Druin destroys the corrupted worldstone. The WORLDSTONE.

D3:

Tyrael, D3 vanilla:
-"we need to get teh black soulstone to capture the souls and destroy it (this plan worked previously of course it'll work again)"
-"oh all the prime evils are in the soulstone, this is great news good job Adria" --> plothole city
-"you killed DIABLA PRIME, good job Nephalem the world is safe forever again"

Tyrael, Reaper of Souls:
-"oh noes the world is not safe again!"
-"I can't break this stone, I don't know why, but I can't! what is hellforge? how i cut with sowrd?"
-"oh noes MALTHAEL, maybe I should have brought the Nephalem w/ and not these newby horadrims. Darn it Nephalem why u so busy farming A3 mp10? u wont find upgrade just use RMAH!"

Thank for the EPIC LOLS Enkidu! well said!
Rather than a story following a main plot and having minor plot holes here and there only seen by the vigilant, D3's story make its seem as a big "plot hole" which is pieced together by "plots" here and there! sereiously!
Jokes aside, please do somrthing about all these inconsistencies, people have said enogh for me not to say again, but please make Tyrael's, Cain's and even prime evil's actions mean something in reaper of souls.
As good as the books are, the main story of the game is a mess. It would be great if people like Richard A. Knaak (author of Sin Wars) could have a hand in writing the story for the RoS.

P.S. Enkidu, Ah the memories I have with this name! I read Gilgamesh as a child, and for a long time, it was the best story I had ever read. Nice choice sir!
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Because blizzard wants to suck money
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it cannot be destroyed because the demons will escape. read about Diablo 1 when the Archbishop shattered Diablo's stone, it simply released him into the human's world.

When Tyrael said the stone needed to be destroyed Adria said there were spells and rituals that needed to be done to prepare it, that part was true seeing as it holds all the evils in there it probly cannot be just taken to the hellforge and smashed. also it could be just wishful thinking on Tyraels part its called the "Eternal Conflict" implying it will never end and you can never completely root out all evil and good.

08/25/2013 05:20 PMPosted by JohnnyZeWolf
Then again, D2 Tyrael expected *Marius* of all people to destroy Baal's soulstone. And why would Baal care so much about it if it's broken anyway?


i think he was just wrong, i mean he was deceived for pretty much this whole series story about the Soulsones, so he was probly just hoping destroying Baals stone would be the right thing to do so he couldnt just return back to the stone and take control of some other persons mind if/after the hero(s) killed him, it would take him longer to reincarnate in that Dark Abyss then it would in the soulstone
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From reading I got that Hephisto convinced Tyreal the soulstones were good knowing what the stones were capable of made a pact with the prime evils for power tricked them into using soulstones so that the prime evils could manifest themselves in the physical world our world thats the story of diablo 1 take soulstone it good jam it in head good idea! Diablo 2 was more like oh we @#$#ed up we gotta destroy these stones so they did. Diablo 3 is like oh @#$% a star from the sky wtf go on here? cool oh undead up now lets kill skelly king oh whats this on the way? demons and cultists and diablo worshipers summoning stuff oh lets kill more demons, oh crap the butcher ok its tyreal cool lets go to the desert i hear rumors, lets kill more demons, oh hey its dat old witch from long time ago, she talks bout black stone and wizard guy, zultan gets body back oh ok lets have a look at my stone oh wait a minute diablo mephy and baal all up in this black stone you gotta stop now or youll be used /cut wrists and now you all die, take stone oh hey lets go kill belial but before that since im a good mother /wink ill help Leah develop her powers /wink shell be useful in our fight /wink, lets trap the other evils souls in it cuz im a good guy /wink, lets go to a castle there a big fight there, kill alot of stuff, trap other evil in stone, alright lets pop up a bear guys uh where you all go? lets go up top hory @#$% why you betray me i on you team? diablo possesses Leah, lets kill diablo, congrats you beat the game! um we destroy stone now? must construct additional pylons?
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I always figured we couldn't destroy the Black Soulstone because only Adria and Leah knew the ritual and the had the magic required for it. With both of them gone, the only remaining solution is to hide it where noone else can find it, get corrupted, get possessed, and bring the Evils back.

And destroying it in the Hellforge would just drop them back in the Abyss where they'd be reborn.
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TL/DR: D2 told its story in an epic mature and realistic way with actions and events. D3 told its story literally, with too much dialogue as if it was a theater/stage performance with a self aware audience. (Not to mention plot holes and a lot of contrived retroactive continuity.)

The more I look into the things that makes D3 different than D1/D2, while at the same time listening to the creators of the game describe their game making philosophy, the more I don't like D3 and the philosophy used to change the game.

For example, "We wanted to do 'more' story telling in D3." This could mean either more stories, a stronger story, or actually TELLING the story. Let me address all of these.

More Stories
: I think someone else just mentioned this. D3 seems like a bunch of stories. "Oh look a fairy lady who kills Cain, oh look a witch who is the mother of this girl that probably has everything to do with the story only because she's constantly hanging around... etc." More is not better.

Stronger Story
: Diablo 2 became my favorite game because certain parts of the story were told by seeing events unfold. The story telling was more mature that way, it didn't need to be read, just like a good movie does not need the Scooby-Doo gang in it explaining events as they are happening (No offense to Scooby-Doo). In short, D2's story was awesome, D3's wasn't... so I assume awesome/stronger is not what they mean by 'more' in D3.

Different story telling: By different, they seem to have gone with actual story TELLING. Like, "sit down on the carpet everyone, and I'm gonna read ya a story." Right along side with 'more' stories. Everything is dialogued. Not that the voice acting wasn't awesome in its own right, but the amount of actual speaking is nauseating. And the scriptwriting (oh the scriptwriting). It gets to the point where you really don't feel immersed with what's in front of yours eyes because there's so much damn dialogue to ignore/click out of.

D2 was like watching an Epic movie/book/legend of good and evil. Or like finding and reading an old dusty leather bound book in a centuries forgotten tomb. It was gritty and real. Marius did have dialogue but it was a retelling of him witnessing horrific events. And the characters had stories to tell when you wanted, which is fine... but it wasn't the center of the game and they didn't have crappy cut scenes with in game graphics while central figures died to really weird nonessential characters animated like it was a stage performance.

In less critical words it became theater drama.
Edited by KeeperOfKale#1551 on 3/13/2014 12:11 AM PDT
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09/16/2013 07:02 PMPosted by Vaeflare
RoS' writers address the alleged Black Soulstone plothole:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnyQ6eMae5o"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnyQ6eMae5o[/url]

According to them, since the Black Soulstone isn't coming from the Worldstone like the regular Soulstones, Tyrael doesn't know if it can be destroyed by the Hellforge nor does he want to find out the hard way. So sealing it away seems the best option.
Indeed! [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9793009454?page=6#119"]This post[/url] may offer some additional food for thought on the subject as well. :)


The second question about the writing. I hope the lead writer learned his lesson tbh and that it will be better in RoS.

It wasnt the fact that the storytelling was so direct, it was more the childish and condecending way of doing the storytelling. D3 was seriously like reading a childrens book where the characters treated your player like the village idiot.
Edited by Ouroboros#2414 on 3/15/2014 10:23 AM PDT
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