Diablo® III

infinite paragon levels need milestones.

just saying: we ought to have more defined rewards at milestones.

its something to aim for other than inevitable grind. since power is relative, and everyone gets it , so it shouldn't be too unbalancing.

eg: every 10th or 25th , or 50 levels = double or triple points.
every prime number level above lvl 100 = quadruple points. or alternatively, bonus fixed stats. (eg; lifesteal)
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best milestone is whoever have higher paragon win in an argument. id say this idea is pretty bad :D
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Since this is infinite it needs no special rewards, no way to toot your horn of how special you are. Just the points that are doled out per level.

My only problem with this is this though. If paragon points are one per level, but each character on the account is seen as paragon level one, if you have only one paragon level character at paragon level one. Then every character on the account will be getting one point to spend.

Here is the problem, accounts with around 10 paragon level 100's will be able to fill out their characters so fast that they will be bored with nothing to do. Because they will have all of those points and all of the core fleshed out, and maybe all other stats as well. That is hundreds of points per character.

Now if it was a shared bank of paragon points that is like the shared gold. Where when you spend gold with any character it is removed from your account. Then it would not be a problem.
A player that has enough paragon experience to have 400 paragon points. He has 10 characters. But he can only use those 400 points once. Because they are not 400 points fore each of the 10 characters. They are 400 points for all 10 character to use as the player sees fit.
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08/26/2013 02:48 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
Here is the problem, accounts with around 10 paragon level 100's will be able to fill out their characters so fast that they will be bored with nothing to do. Because they will have all of those points and all of the core fleshed out, and maybe all other stats as well. That is hundreds of points per character.


The way it has been explained is that it's going by total Paragon experience, not Paragon levels. Each Paragon 2.0 level nets every character on the account 1 Paragon point. If someone has 10 P100 characters, they deserve whatever payout they're going to get. That takes a lot of work.

To the OP: I like the idea of milestones Double points every 50 sounds reasonable.
Edited by Taganov#1343 on 8/26/2013 2:59 PM PDT
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08/26/2013 02:48 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
Here is the problem, accounts with around 10 paragon level 100's will be able to fill out their characters so fast that they will be bored with nothing to do. Because they will have all of those points and all of the core fleshed out, and maybe all other stats as well. That is hundreds of points per character.


That's virtually impossible.

There's a minimum of 750 points able to be allocated based on the 50 point per stat rule. If we gain 1 paragon point per level, that means we would need to be P750+ to max out our stats. Based on current scaling that's literally over 10,000 P100 characters worth of experience. 10x P100 characters with current scaling is around P170.

The updated paragon curve and/or the amount of stats awarded per level is still a WIP, but regardless it will be incredibly hard to build that many levels. They will obviously make it so that getting every point is impossible without decades of grinding, hence why it's "infinite".
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Now if it was a shared bank of paragon points that is like the shared gold. Where when you spend gold with any character it is removed from your account. Then it would not be a problem.
A player that has enough paragon experience to have 400 paragon points. He has 10 characters. But he can only use those 400 points once. Because they are not 400 points fore each of the 10 characters. They are 400 points for all 10 character to use as the player sees fit.


I know that you are saying this based on your previous understanding that maxing a single character would be "easy", but it still makes zero sense for them to be allocated this way (and to be clear they're not, they are awarded to each character).

The reason it would be pointless (PUN ALERT) is purely because they are respeccable. So if they were account-wide, the player would simply be forced to reset and re-allocate their points each time they changed their character. It's redundant.
Edited by DamienJohn#1321 on 8/26/2013 3:14 PM PDT
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New paragon system is kind of in game ladder system.
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08/26/2013 03:10 PMPosted by DamienJohn
The updated paragon curve and/or the amount of stats awarded per level is still a WIP, but regardless it will be incredibly hard to build that many levels. They will obviously make it so that getting every point is impossible without decades of grinding, hence why it's "infinite".


If they go the route of making each paragon level progressively higher. Then in time what would be happening is that the players would not see any progression in the paragon level at all. They would be playing for close to a year and it would seem that their paragon experience bar does not move an inch. Then they would come here and complain about the matter. They would ask are you (Blizz) trying to force us to reroll in order to be able to see our paragon xp bar move. I say that for the sake of progression Blizz will have to have a set flat amount of experience for each paragon level. So going from level 1 to 2 would be the same flat experience as going from level 97 to 98.

That way they can make sure that players will be able to see their bar moving. Otherwise they will not see it move at all. So there will be times where the player will be saying that I am not making any progress. So Blizz is wanting me to reroll in order to get back to making some progress.
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08/26/2013 08:26 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
I say that for the sake of progression Blizz will have to have a set flat amount of experience for each paragon level. So going from level 1 to 2 would be the same flat experience as going from level 97 to 98.


There's no way that will happen. The whole point of so many stat points is that we are never actually supposed to max them all out, otherwise gaining additional levels would be completely useless, just a number on our profiles.

The exp curve will be changed so that it's not as steep and will perhaps level out to a degree, but they won't make every level require the same amount of experience. If that was the case we would all be running around with our stats maxed out in no time and it wouldn't classify as customization.

08/26/2013 08:26 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
So there will be times where the player will be saying that I am not making any progress. So Blizz is wanting me to reroll in order to get back to making some progress.


You are misunderstanding how the accumulation works here I think. Do you mean deleting a character and restarting or do you mean rolling an alt? If it's the latter, that wouldn't make a different to the progression. If it's the former, that would be like taking 100 steps backwards and starting over.

08/26/2013 08:26 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
Then in time what would be happening is that the players would not see any progression in the paragon level at all.


Yep, that's how it works. But when you say "in time", that wouldn't be for years and years depending on the scale. The experience needed could even be additive and not exponential which means that it would be a line instead of a curve and you wouldn't see any giant leaps in what is needed to progress. As a rough example; they added 50mil added experience needed per level.

But either way, you will always need more experience to get to your next level then you did for your last. Doesn't need to be a curve, could just be an linear, but there's zero possibility of you requiring the same amount of experience for every level. It's just not logical for the stat allocation they've implemented.
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OP, I like your idea of milestones though. That supports the idea of goals that become harder to reach, but reward accordingly.

Milestones could also signify a change in the additional experience needed per level (given the aforementioned linear progression).

So as an example;

P1 - 25, each level now requires 2.5 mil more experience, triple points for hitting 25
P25 - 50, each level now requires 5 mil more experience, triple points for hitting 50
P50 - 75, each level now requires 7.5 mil more experience, triple points for hitting 75
P75 - 100, each level now requires 10 mil more experience, 10 points for hitting 100
P100- 125 each level now requires 12.5 mil more experience , triple points for hitting 125

and so on.

This would mean progression will never reach the point where it's so steep that your experience bar doesn't move.
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imagine poor Alkaizer...

World first Paragon 1000, 10,000, 100,000??
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i can see the first week already, bots hitting paragon level 1000 in a matter of days lmao
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08/26/2013 08:49 PMPosted by DamienJohn
The exp curve will be changed so that it's not as steep and will perhaps level out to a degree, but they won't make every level require the same amount of experience. If that was the case we would all be running around with our stats maxed out in no time and it wouldn't classify as customization.


Look paragon leveling was put in because players were playing for weeks without seeing any upgrades. So their characters were not making progress at all. I am saying for the sake of progress that the experience for one level to the next will have to be set in such a way that players will still see their bar moving. If players are playing for months and they do not see the bar moving. Then they will come here and complain about it. Because their characters will not be making any progress at all.

They will be the ones that will saying that Blizz expects them to reroll just so they can see their characters making progress once again since all characters on the same account will be the same paragon level even level ones. So all newly created characters will be the same paragon level as the other characters on the account.

I am saying that since the paragon leveling system was put in so players would be able to see their characters making progress. Then for the sake of progress something has to be done so that you do not have such a high amount of experience needed to make it to the next level. An amount of experience needed that would take years to get. Would you like waiting three years or more for one paragon point. Most players would just reroll and take the path of least resistance.
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08/27/2013 10:10 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
Look paragon leveling was put in because players were playing for weeks without seeing any upgrades. So their characters were not making progress at all. I am saying for the sake of progress that the experience for one level to the next will have to be set in such a way that players will still see their bar moving. If players are playing for months and they do not see the bar moving. Then they will come here and complain about it. Because their characters will not be making any progress at all.


I understand what you're saying but that's intentional. You will eventually reach a point where the next level is very hard to get, and the level after that even harder. They don't intend for players to be able to max out all their paragon stats.

I'll say again, there's literally no way they will make the experience needed for each level the same.

They will adjust the curve and it may even just be an incline line (additive not exponential), but there's zero chance of what you're saying.

I think you're expecting that "invisible" cap to be reached easily, but it won't. It will give players years of leveling before they actually reach the point where their exp bar doesn't appear to move. Especially if the experience scaling is a line and not a curve. If it's a line there won't ever realistically ever be a point where the next level is out of reach, as it will just require a standard increase the additional amount of experience needed to hit it.

08/27/2013 10:10 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
Most players would just reroll and take the path of least resistance.


Not sure what you mean by this, do you mean deleting a character and losing their contribution of experience to your account level so it's then easier to progress? Or are you under the impression that levels are accumulated per character? If it's the latter then that's incorrect, If you have an account paragon of 150, new character will take just as long to push that level as existing ones. If it's the former then that makes no sense, the player would be losing a bunch of levels and points just to.. what? Feel the excitement of leveling quicker?
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08/28/2013 01:23 AMPosted by DamienJohn
do you mean deleting a character and losing their contribution of experience to your account level


That won't happen.

They said characters don't have experience but the account.

Which means it can only go up.

Also why would they count dead hardcore chars into the HC paragon then?
Edited by marsovac#2732 on 8/28/2013 1:42 AM PDT
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do you mean deleting a character and losing their contribution of experience to your account level


That won't happen.

They said characters don't have experience but the account.

Which means it can only go up.

Also why would they count dead hardcore chars into the HC paragon then?


I was asking if that's what he meant, not saying that's how it is.

I know that it's not going to work that way. ;)

That said, regarding dead HC experience being kept, Lyrlirra actually later explained that it still hasn't been decided yet. First she says the points/plvl will be kept on HC when a character dies, and then after checking with Wyatt she said they are still working out how exactly it will work.

Here's the tweet stream.

https://twitter.com/Lylirra/status/370156639690571778

So although I think it's absolutely likely, we don't know for sure yes or no.
Edited by DamienJohn#1321 on 8/28/2013 2:31 AM PDT
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