Diablo® III

Self-Found mode: Why do you feel it's necessary?



In the end, it will be Blizzard who determines exactly what they would want in a SFcore Mode of play. I and other "Selfies" propose mostly the same thing: Find or make all of your own items, no Auction House use, no trading (can be abused), no dropping of items (to give to other accounts), and a separate and optional (via checkbox upon character creation) environment or Mode.


yea that would make me sad, I am well guilty of accepting an item that dropped to a mate in the game i'm in. I guess at the end of the day that's a single item so i'd probably still be in the same place with or without..

I would have no problem if they just added user names to the items(who found them), then game filters at it's most basic.

but really if they did a little work on the game mode, maybe you could look at merging the co-op drops and stuff instead of having drops for each player just everything drops on the ground and even bound too account on pick-up or bind to account on leave game... that might improve the items?

at the same time i don't want to make any major changes, no change of drop rates or anything.
Edited by troyshaun#6994 on 8/26/2013 5:11 PM PDT
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08/26/2013 05:09 PMPosted by troyshaun
but really if they did a little work on the game mode, maybe you could look at merging the co-op drops and stuff instead of having drops for each player just everything drops on the ground and even bound too account on pick-up or bind to account on leave game... that might improve the items?

I think the current system for individual drops is better due to greed and jealousy to be honest. There are a couple minor drawbacks to a self-found environment that way, but I think overall it spares a lot of additional headache. As far as BOA goes, I really wish they wouldn't do that to any gear period. I like being able to give items to my friends that I can't use, and many of them don't play self-found as I do. =)
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Like others have said this is a topic that is getting really old with the same arguments. And like many of those other arguments you have the same misconceptions as others. Its not about you can just play self found and not use the AH in the normal mode of play. Yes you can. No self found player is arguing that you cant. But it would be nice to have mechanics that support that style of play.

For some it is about mechanics that would help support player matchmaking in public games. If its a separate mode you know everyone is playing self found and you can use the matchmaking for specific types of games like you do now. Otherwise the current public games would be cluttered with not only the types of games but if it is self found or not. I think its just simpler to keep them separate.

For those that have no problem using the AH on some characters but would like to play self found on others its a matter of mechanics to help manage your gold and gear. Having a separate mode like HC does would allow for easier tracking of what gold and gear is for your self found characters and what was stuff that you bought on the AH for others. You may not use crafting because of the disparity of the items you can get but that disparity only really exists when you have nearly unlimited amounts of gold you can get from the AH or RMAH. If you are limited to self found gold crafting becomes just as limited as finding things.

Those are just a couple reasons for a self found mode. Now what are the reasons against a self found mode? Its not needed? Well alot of things people ask for are not needed. But they ask because it makes it more enjoyable for them to play the game. Why is self found being singled out for that reason? It will fragment the playerbase? Its already fragmented. Self found arent playing with non self found. Bottom line is its just support for a style of play that people are asking for. You dont like it then dont use it. Hey that sounds familiar doesnt it?

In any case like I said in another thread all this could be moot with the upcoming changes. It may fix the problem self found has with the normal mode of play or it might not. The devs said they arent going to add self found right now and this is their solution instead. We can at least wait to see the outcome rather than make the same arguments over and over again.
08/26/2013 05:17 PMPosted by DuckOfDeath
For those that have no problem using the AH on some characters but would like to play self found on others its a matter of mechanics to help manage your gold and gear. Having a separate mode like HC does would allow for easier tracking of what gold and gear is for your self found characters and what was stuff that you bought on the AH for others. You may not use crafting because of the disparity of the items you can get but that disparity only really exists when you have nearly unlimited amounts of gold you can get from the AH or RMAH. If you are limited to self found gold crafting becomes just as limited as finding things.


yea that whole idea about the stash and stuff is an interesting one, it could be as simple as if you have an item you didn't find on it won't let you in the server, just change kit before joining. or a lot more difficult as you say.

I wasn't aware that Blizz even said anything about it, is there a link? because that being said they also said the "aren't working on anything until they finish the current job" many times before, so there is still a chance.
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Like others have said this is a topic that is getting really old with the same arguments. And like many of those other arguments you have the same misconceptions as others. Its not about you can just play self found and not use the AH in the normal mode of play. Yes you can. No self found player is arguing that you cant. But it would be nice to have mechanics that support that style of play.

For some it is about mechanics that would help support player matchmaking in public games. If its a separate mode you know everyone is playing self found and you can use the matchmaking for specific types of games like you do now. Otherwise the current public games would be cluttered with not only the types of games but if it is self found or not. I think its just simpler to keep them separate.

For those that have no problem using the AH on some characters but would like to play self found on others its a matter of mechanics to help manage your gold and gear. Having a separate mode like HC does would allow for easier tracking of what gold and gear is for your self found characters and what was stuff that you bought on the AH for others. You may not use crafting because of the disparity of the items you can get but that disparity only really exists when you have nearly unlimited amounts of gold you can get from the AH or RMAH. If you are limited to self found gold crafting becomes just as limited as finding things.

Those are just a couple reasons for a self found mode. Now what are the reasons against a self found mode? Its not needed? Well alot of things people ask for are not needed. But they ask because it makes it more enjoyable for them to play the game. Why is self found being singled out for that reason? It will fragment the playerbase? Its already fragmented. Self found arent playing with non self found. Bottom line is its just support for a style of play that people are asking for. You dont like it then dont use it. Hey that sounds familiar doesnt it?

In any case like I said in another thread all this could be moot with the upcoming changes. It may fix the problem self found has with the normal mode of play or it might not. The devs said they arent going to add self found right now and this is their solution instead. We can at least wait to see the outcome rather than make the same arguments over and over again.

I sense more than a bit of frustration in your tone, but I can understand why. Thanks for not cursing at me at least. =P

The public matchmaking is one of the fast emerging positives of a self-found mode existing. Also, the point made that self-found players aren't playing with the rest of the community is duly noted. Regarding crafting, I would agree if it were not for the fact that they made the BOA crafting options better than potential drops and that is a separate problem unto itself. As far as need is concerned, you are correct in that many things that are not needed can, at the same time, be beneficial. I'm only trying to assess just how beneficial this "unneeded" change would be to the current dynamic. Lastly, I, as do many others, definitely hope that the expansion has some cover-down in this department. It may, it may not, but I think overall they've lent more than an ear to the problems at present and we can only hope they make some of the necessary changes to the loot system. Thanks for your post. =)
Self-Found mode: Why do you feel it's necessary?

Because they haven't removed the AH yet.
I wouldn't even be mad if they removed crafting from self-found, it would improve the challenge for sure but if the loot system is better than now that wouldn't even be a problem.

without crafting i would probably be up to MP2 now, at least one of my characters.
Enforcing my own rules is tedious. The point of electronic games is that they do the tedious parts for you.

Having to spam LFG to find other SF players is tedious. I want the option to click find game and get SF players only.

Having to keep track of which gold and items belong to SF and non-SF is tedious. I would like to play both ways. I also don't want to have to play overseas to get separation, because lag and HC don't mix.

Getting excited over an item you know you could buy on the AH for 10k gold is tedious. Blah, blah, willpower to not use the AH. I don't want to have to exercise will power when I play a game. This isn't training for a marathon. This is relaxation.

I could do all those things. Or I could ask Blizzard to do them for me. Why would I voluntarily pick the former?
Enforcing my own rules is tedious. The point of electronic games is that they do the tedious parts for you.

Having to spam LFG to find other SF players is tedious. I want the option to click find game and get SF players only.

Having to keep track of which gold and items belong to SF and non-SF is tedious. I would like to play both ways. I also don't want to have to play overseas to get separation, because lag and HC don't mix.

Getting excited over an item you know you could buy on the AH for 10k gold is tedious. Blah, blah, willpower to not use the AH. I don't want to have to exercise will power when I play a game. This isn't training for a marathon. This is relaxation.

I could do all those things. Or I could ask Blizzard to do them for me. Why would I voluntarily pick the former?


All extremely good points. We paid $60 and it isn't that much to ask Blizzard to make a separate and optional SFcore Mode of play. Just think of how many players might come back if there was a way to play the way the Diablo series intended; no Auction Houses. 12.5 million players quit, even if only 10% come back, this would support SF and would support Diablo 3 by providing a stronger player base.
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08/26/2013 05:34 PMPosted by Dogf
Self-Found mode: Why do you feel it's necessary?

Because they haven't removed the AH yet.

Touche! lol

I wouldn't even be mad if they removed crafting from self-found, it would improve the challenge for sure but if the loot system is better than now that wouldn't even be a problem.

without crafting i would probably be up to MP2 now, at least one of my characters.

And those improvements to the loot system are what we're all hoping for if you ask me. I don't care to have the mode or not, but boy would I like to find some cooler gear down the road. =)

08/26/2013 05:37 PMPosted by Aphyrax
Getting excited over an item you know you could buy on the AH for 10k gold is tedious.

This is definitely the most painful consequence of playing self-found. =(
So then for you one of the biggest contributing factors to wanting such a mode is convenience and a removal of the associated hassle we go through now?

Just think of how many players might come back if there was a way to play the way the Diablo series intended; no Auction Houses. 12.5 million players quit, even if only 10% come back, this would support SF and would support Diablo 3 by providing a stronger player base.

This is definitely one of the most sound reasons to use when convincing the developers you would want a mode like that. Monetary incentives are always the most heeded. I'm sure I have at least a score of friends that would look more seriously at coming back to the game were this option available to them. My only issue when people talk about removal of the auction house is that the AH does serve an important function for people that DON'T play this way. I don't know that I want to rob them of that solely for my own enjoyment. So in effect, do you think then that this could simply benefit all parties? =)
Edited by Alexandros#1268 on 8/26/2013 5:49 PM PDT
08/26/2013 05:17 PMPosted by DuckOfDeath
Self found arent playing with non self found.


If that's the case then, again, why make a separate realm for something they are already doing? So they can chat easier? Create private games easier? We all want that, not just the SF crowd. That's a huge undertaking for such a small gain.

Once the expansion comes out and any fixes required are made, if people still want a SF mode - which they will, nothing will ever change that - then go ahead and make one when everything else has been finished. But, I bet not that many people will play it for more than a couple of months. I think the only difference between people playing a SF mode versus those playing the traditional mode is that pub games will take longer to make. Other than that, there will be little difference from what we will have with the expansion.

People used to fight and die to avoid segregation. Now people are fighting for self-segregation. Something is just wrong with that in my opinion. Especially when we are all supposed to be playing together and having fun in a game. It's a video game, not a way of life.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9627812788

I think this guy said it best.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9627812788

I think this guy said it best.


That is Cyberbard's thread and yes he does do a great job of trying to educate those who really wish to understand why SF is something we desire.
08/26/2013 05:44 PMPosted by BlayneRTFM
If that's the case then, again, why make a separate realm for something they are already doing? So they can chat easier? Create private games easier? We all want that, not just the SF crowd. That's a huge undertaking for such a small gain.


you missed it, we can't play open games period.

People who play the game in SF mode are playing essentially the same way that D2 and D1 were designed, why should we be the ones forced out?
Edited by troyshaun#6994 on 8/26/2013 5:53 PM PDT
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08/26/2013 05:44 PMPosted by BlayneRTFM
If that's the case then, again, why make a separate realm for something they are already doing? So they can chat easier? Create private games easier? We all want that, not just the SF crowd. That's a huge undertaking for such a small gain.

If I'm understanding those that want a self-found mode correctly though, this would go part way towards alleviating much of the headache of both crowds. Sure, you'd have the occasional guy with no damage joining your group, but I think that might make it happen with less frequency.
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http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9627812788

I think this guy said it best.

Reading now. Thanks for the link. =)

Okay, finished reading. I think he makes a good argument, but the one thing I noticed that bothered me a bit was how often he ceded his points to ego and temptation. When I think of my progress in-game I think of the direct progression of my character and his/her efficacy versus the mobs, not how he compares stacked against other players. That's not a personal indictment though as we all play for different forms of satisfaction.
Edited by Alexandros#1268 on 8/26/2013 6:15 PM PDT
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I sense more than a bit of frustration in your tone, but I can understand why. Thanks for not cursing at me at least. =P

The public matchmaking is one of the fast emerging positives of a self-found mode existing. Also, the point made that self-found players aren't playing with the rest of the community is duly noted. Regarding crafting, I would agree if it were not for the fact that they made the BOA crafting options better than potential drops and that is a separate problem unto itself. As far as need is concerned, you are correct in that many things that are not needed can, at the same time, be beneficial. I'm only trying to assess just how beneficial this "unneeded" change would be to the current dynamic. Lastly, I, as do many others, definitely hope that the expansion has some cover-down in this department. It may, it may not, but I think overall they've lent more than an ear to the problems at present and we can only hope they make some of the necessary changes to the loot system. Thanks for your post. =)


LOL I didnt know I was typing in a frustrated tone. I didnt even add emoticons. I didnt even give you a /facepalm or anything.

But the idea that you think public matchmaking is one of the fast emerging positives of self found tells me alot. It tells me you havent kept up with all the various threads on self found when you made this one that truely is just a rehash of alot of other stuff that has been brought up previously.
I am one of the people who would like to see a non-AH mode. If implemented correctly, I believe it can enhance the gameplay experience for new adventurers who want to experience the magic of Diablo 3 after loot 2.0 and/or RoS go live. Of course, this depends on the implementation.

Remember the rush everyone had when seeing people get to 60 and complete inferno for the first time? That was great with live streaming and everyone pitching in to find items. There was a sense of community but it was unfortunately short lived and lasted only a couple weeks after launch (when people could play when the servers weren't down, of course). Bringing back that sense of exploration and achievement can help people to feel part of a community as they see how they rank in the leader boards compared to top players and even their friends. It gives them something to be excited about 'when the next reset' comes and something new to work towards together with their friends.

That is why to implement it properly, I think it would have to be part of a ladder mechanic. In my view of how such a system might work, the auction house would be eliminated only for ladder characters for the duration of the ladder season, afterwards the characters would be rolled into the normal community. Most of the people who enjoy this kind of play will delete their normal character[s] and re-roll a new ladder character to experience the magic of playing the game all over again.

However, I do think such a system should wait until after RoS releases, and ideally the number of difficulties would be reduced from 4 to 3 because people can blast through acts 1-4 very quickly and it feels really artificial to me to have 4 difficulty levels (too repetitious)... though I would still be happy if they kept it at 4 difficulties. And, of course, ideally there would be more character customization choices because a new character is a great opportunity to try different builds, but unfortunately there's not too much variety here for something like that.

One of the concerns Blizzard representatives have mentioned is that they are worried about spam chat from people and/or bots trying to trade. While the current chat implementation already protects against this kind of spam - an in-game (to protect immersion) trading post kind of implementation (instead of an auction house) where people can post what they have, indicate what they are looking for, and people can 'submit' offers - would largely eliminate that concern.

Is it worth it to help ensure several hours of entertainment from the gaming community? That's something only Blizzard can answer... but a system where ladder characters eventually roll into normal again will also address concerns that they would 'miss out' on AH revenue, because those characters would eventually be able use the Auction House again.

A better question is, perhaps, would you create a non-auction house ladder character if you could, to experience the magic of Diablo again? I know I would!
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LOL I didnt know I was typing in a frustrated tone. I didnt even add emoticons. I didnt even give you a /facepalm or anything.

But the idea that you think public matchmaking is one of the fast emerging positives of self found tells me alot. It tells me you havent kept up with all the various threads on self found when you made this one that truely is just a rehash of alot of other stuff that has been brought up previously.

I gathered that you were frustrated by the phrasing of a couple of your comments, but if I misread that I apologize. I've read quite a few self-found threads though while they were still viable. My comment about matchmaking was being made in the context of my thread and the responses I've been receiving, not the general response on the whole. Regardless, thanks for your prior commentary. =)
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A better question is, perhaps, would you create a non-auction house ladder character if you could, to experience the magic of Diablo again? I know I would!

Thanks for the input man. A ladder system would definitely be pretty neat depending on how they implemented it. As for RoS in general, I'm really hoping they come through on this one. I think it could go a long way towards restoring that "Diablo" feeling of the loot. =)
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