Diablo® III

Self-Found mode: Why do you feel it's necessary?

I have him on ignore because now we are seeing his true colours. Interesting!

As for the AH, this generation sees no value in not using it, and Blizzard is capitalizing on this mentality. More and more it is obvious that we need a divorce from this mindset. Each month there are more and more SF supporters, and for this I am very thankful!
What all of you SF haters simply cannot or do not want to understand is that loot 2.0 does not make using the AH/ RMAH obsolete. You simply don't want to listen when we say that AH/ RMAH will always, i repeat, ALWAYS, be miles ahead of actually farming for monsters, doing what diablo is all about. A way to fix that is BoA on drop BiS items( BiS is a relative term, but you catch my drift).

Also, read this: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9627812788

Those of you who argue against SF are either egotistical, or simply too blind to realise that this is a Wanted and Needed feature for a lot of people. That's why it should be implemented. If you can be objective, that link will show you that you are mistaken to blatantly disregard our concerns with the game and dismiss our request based on ... uhm.... i really don't know what is the basis of your arguments. Every single SF hater says we don't need another mode and that's it. That is NO argument against it. SF does not make the game worse, it doesn't make it unhealthy.

Oh well, sometimes it is hard to argue with your kind, mainly because logic is not one of your attributes.
Posts: 1,340
Well now, a little disappointed seeing what this thread has descended into, but I suppose it's a lot to expect people to treat each other with civility on an internet forum. Hell, people hardly feign as much in face-to-face interaction these days.

So it seems that some of the more vocal (outliers I hope) opponents of this concept think it is nothing but some kind of elitist complex, jealousy or poverty that drives people to play in a self-found environment. Many that are currently playing also have no qualms with the way the game plays out when the AH's are used as the primary source of gearing.

The current population of the game based on the most recent numbers actually furnished by Blizzard are no less than 1 million unique logins per month. The current sales of the game are listed at over 12 million copies. Assuming even an expected rate of drop-off at around 2/3's of the population (most would consider this fair for retention's sake), we should be expecting to see 4 times the number of users logging in on a regular basis.

When the game came out it almost immediately came under great scrutiny for the effect the AH had on the quality of drops in-game and the dependency it fostered among the player-base. This has universally been decried as the single greatest failing on Blizzard's part and the reason for the mass downturn in the number of active players. Now, you can obviously blame the unusual drop-off rate to a few different factors, but to say that given the reception the game has had, that the AH's were not the single greatest cause of that, definitely comes across as willful ignorance.

Additionally, the request for a self-found mode was one of the greatest rallying cries among those that were not satisfied with the launch product. Not much has changed aside from the fact that it doesn't take as long to find gear with which to beat the game. Not to dominate it, just to beat it. Correlation does not equal causation but it is difficult to argue that a self-found mode wouldn't bring at least some portion of those players back. I defer to my betters to figure out how great a portion and whether it would be worth the expense to Blizzard, but it would bring some people back.

The people that are left playing are primarily those that have no issues with the AH's, those that play obsessively and cannot stop and those that believe brighter days are ahead and therefore play occasionally in something resembling a perpetual "holdout" state. There are also those that stand to gain monetarily but I would have to argue those are seen with increasing infrequency as the economy accumulates a greater number of top grade items.

While there are plenty of ways to fix this problem without adding a self-found mode to the game, and to consequently face the potential return of what could literally be millions of formerly lost customers, if Blizzard finds enough cause to do so they will probably instate some form of self-found play as well. It's not a big deal to me and I might never play it, but if enough people argue for it for a long enough period of time, it could become a reality. I'm sure plenty of people will play it, if not primarily then at least for kicks on occasion similarly to how some people play HC when they feel like going for a challenge.

TL;DR: I don't personally have any vested interest in whether they do or do not add a self-found mode to the game. I do think it is fair to discuss such ideas and determine whether it would be a good thing or a bad thing for the community however, and that there is a body of evidence that would suggest there may very well be tangible benefits to Blizzard adding such a feature. If this can be counted as a benefit to players at large, then all the better.
Oh, damn, the first wave of RoS hype is over, the self-found spammers have crept back out of their caves :/
Posts: 1,340
08/27/2013 01:29 AMPosted by Vlad
Every single SF hater says we don't need another mode and that's it. That is NO argument against it. SF does not make the game worse, it doesn't make it unhealthy.

This is probably one of the most important things to note. I'm neutral on the matter, but as long as it doesn't release to the detriment of other features, I don't know that it hurts anyone. That was one of my initial questions when trying to sort this whole issue out, but it would appear that given the already existing lines of separation between those who do and do not play self-found, that there is quite little harm in allowing for it. In short, people need to argue the detrimental qualities of such a change in order to validate it. It seems the merits of self-found are already rather well-established.
87 Undead Priest
7715
Posts: 1,495
for the same reason there is an option for hardcore

it eliminates the temptation

honestly self discipline is not a predominant feature in video gamers so there is no reason to believe they should all police themselves in their own artificial "self-found" mode.

Really the question is why can't players have the option to exclude the AH's? How does that hurt your game?

Self found could be as easy as a checkbox that makes all of your gear become soulbound upon pickup with blocked access to the AH's and grouping with any players except other "self found" players and games. Or take off the soulbinding if you still want some form of player trading.

On this note, console version is gonna rock over all these item flipping punks!
08/27/2013 01:43 AMPosted by Kugpriest
On this note, console version is gonna rock over all these item flipping punks!
Quoted this,cuz it's awesome
self found mode serves absolutely no purpose other than feeding the egos of a handful of terrible players with a terrible solution to the problems in the game. the only thing it would solve, is removing 10 bad players from the general population of players, overall something no one would notice either way, and a giant waste of time if Blizzard actually ever dreamed of doing it.


Troll post? Or someone whose mind is that closed, despite reading the literally HUNDREDS of posts and comments with many many valid and heart-felt reasons would SF be a panacea to many of the problems that plague this game - still writes this tripe?

I'm guessing somewhere between the two. At the very least sir, try to respect the views of others and not suggest (as you do above) that those whose view-points differ from your own, number 10, or are bad players. That clearly is just ...
08/26/2013 11:19 PMPosted by Martimus
Then you are being equally idiotic expecting an optional mode that didn't come with the game.

Let me clarify for you - who's 'expecting' SF? We mostly agree it's unlikely - but is a wish for a LOT of players, rather than an expectation.

08/26/2013 11:27 PMPosted by MasterJay
Stop...stop it all. We have the expansion where there is going to be absolutely no need for self found mode with all the BoA stuff they're throwing our way.

Though BiS drops being BOA will address some of the lack of dedicated SF issues, the broad arguments by it's supporters have more points than simply not needing to go to the AH.

no one cares about communicating with you, they just want to flame you, when will you understand that? stop talking about bad ideas,
Wow! You're actually commanding your forum peers to only talk about the ideas that YOU consider good? I think you just lost all credibility?

08/27/2013 12:20 AMPosted by Kirishima
Self-found: poor people who can't afford Blizzard's pay2win tax and leech off of pay2win people in public MP games getting incessantly kicked for being undergeared.
Woo, the hate (and utter misunderstanding of the entire SF argument) is strong with this one. How can you read literally dozens of reasons that many players feel they'd like a SF server, and still come up with these words in your post? Trolling or possibly a little ignorant of the many compelling reasons and merits to the SF only server debate?
08/27/2013 01:36 AMPosted by Alexandros
Every single SF hater says we don't need another mode and that's it. That is NO argument against it. SF does not make the game worse, it doesn't make it unhealthy.

This is probably one of the most important things to note. I'm neutral on the matter, but as long as it doesn't release to the detriment of other features, I don't know that it hurts anyone. That was one of my initial questions when trying to sort this whole issue out, but it would appear that given the already existing lines of separation between those who do and do not play self-found, that there is quite little harm in allowing for it. In short, people need to argue the detrimental qualities of such a change in order to validate it. It seems the merits of self-found are already rather well-established.

A SF mode wouldn't be detrimental to players as such, but the cost to create another server just for a mode that's self imposed... that's detrimental for Blizzard. It'd pretty much be a cloned server without AH/trading/whatever else is outlined as self found.

I live in Australia and we don't even get a server. We connect to wherever else and play comfortably on 200~400ping average whilst the rest of the world complains that 100ping is unnacceptable. We have our own forum even.. but no server. We've been asking for a server since.. well.. release.. when we lag, it's 1k msec+. That's a real issue that hasn't been solved yet SF promoters are talking about people flipping etc... like they're the scum of the earth and demanding another server to segregate themselves from these heinous criminals.

I'm fairly neutral to the idea of SF mode as well, but I just don't see the point of a mode for something that is self imposed.
Reading all of the posts just on this page gives me a renewed interest in being one of the beacons for a separate and optional SFcore Mode of play.

You see, I and the other Selfies have devoted countless hours on a huge number of threads to promote the value of a SF Mode. In most cases we are saying the exact same things, over and over, to usually the same haters.

The argument isn't really for them at all; we repeat the same facts over and over for the people on the side lines, the people who have an open mind and can at least see the possibility. The wise ones will see that we present well founded facts and the Trolls just use baseless "You already can do that" statements.

So the show is for you and if it has converted some of you towards our cause, great! If you can at least see that this Mode wouldn't affect anyone else in the game then good. If you think it's a stupid idea and see no reason for incorporating a SF Mode into the game then we either failed to enlighten you or you do not have the mental acuity to understand our premise.
I don't think that's really enough to justify a complete new mode that segregates the community.

The whole point of SF is that you only use what you find. That is the limitation. It means that you can't have the best possible gear, but for them, that's fine.. it's part of the challenge of the game and that is completely fine.

Creating the separate mode with better drops is really them asking Blizzard to fix up itemization.. which is what everyone has been asking for months now. It's unreasonable for any SF player to compare themselves to anyone who uses AH. The difference between AH and Blizzard's itemization for SF players is the difference between chocolate and sh!t.. SF is accepting that. There was a monk who recently cleared MP10 Inferno 100% SF. If he complained and asked for a SF mode, he would never have gotten that far.

I understand that what they want is a level playing field and that AH skews the advantage to those who use it, but if you're forcing a self imposed rule on yourself, you also have no right to complain about AH users. Funnily enough, this has nothing to do with a SF mode at all.
08/26/2013 04:23 PMPosted by SirRight
We don't need a badge or better drop rates, we just want a place to play with other like-minded players.

Oh, really?

06/15/2013 10:26 AMPosted by SirRight
- Denote self-found characters in a special way...I know, give us a halo (colour matches character class, i.e. red for Barbarian, purple for Demon Hunter, yellow for Monk, green for Witch Doctor, and blue for Wizard).
Reading all of the posts just on this page gives me a renewed interest in being one of the beacons for a separate and optional SFcore Mode of play.

You see, I and the other Selfies have devoted countless hours on a huge number of threads to promote the value of a SF Mode. In most cases we are saying the exact same things, over and over, to usually the same haters.

The argument isn't really for them at all; we repeat the same facts over and over for the people on the side lines, the people who have an open mind and can at least see the possibility. The wise ones will see that we present well founded facts and the Trolls just use baseless "You already can do that" statements.

So the show is for you and if it has converted some of you towards our cause, great! If you can at least see that this Mode wouldn't affect anyone else in the game then good. If you think it's a stupid idea and see no reason for incorporating a SF Mode into the game then we either failed to enlighten you or you do not have the mental acuity to understand our premise.

You accomplish exactly the opposite because people are starting to perceive you billion posts on this topic as spam/flood.SF will not happen just because it's number 1 million in game features that need to be fixed ASAP list.YOU want a SF mode...you are too small in numbers my friends and are not the majority.Majority NEEDS other fixes first which take time maybe years.So bb and see you 50 times per day on forum for the next 2 years.
Edited by Z3r05k1ll#2286 on 8/27/2013 8:12 AM PDT
We don't need a badge or better drop rates, we just want a place to play with other like-minded players.

Oh, really?

- Denote self-found characters in a special way...I know, give us a halo (colour matches character class, i.e. red for Barbarian, purple for Demon Hunter, yellow for Monk, green for Witch Doctor, and blue for Wizard).


+1

LOL it's more and more amusing :D
Edited by Z3r05k1ll#2286 on 8/27/2013 8:14 AM PDT
08/27/2013 08:07 AMPosted by SirRight
So the show is for you and if it has converted some of you towards our cause, great! If you can at least see that this Mode wouldn't affect anyone else in the game then good. If you think it's a stupid idea and see no reason for incorporating a SF Mode into the game then we either failed to enlighten you or you do not have the mental acuity to understand our premise.

I took you seriously until you said that last line.

I have skipped a lot of the details that the other SF players have brought forward so if you may, could you repeat them just this one more time?

Just out of interest, what is your reply to the usual "troll" post of "You can already do that"?
So the show is for you and if it has converted some of you towards our cause, great! If you can at least see that this Mode wouldn't affect anyone else in the game then good. If you think it's a stupid idea and see no reason for incorporating a SF Mode into the game then we either failed to enlighten you or you do not have the mental acuity to understand our premise.

I took you seriously until you said that last line.

I have skipped a lot of the details that the other SF players have brought forward so if you may, could you repeat them just this one more time?

Just out of interest, what is your reply to the usual "troll" post of "You can already do that"?


Actually we failed to enlighten you and make you see what a non-sense you are asking.Or maybe you lack the mental acuity needed to understand the selfish and idiotic nature of your request.Usually people who gather in flocks share this trait i have to admit..
Edited by Z3r05k1ll#2286 on 8/27/2013 8:19 AM PDT
08/27/2013 08:08 AMPosted by MrDuMa
The whole point of SF is that you only use what you find. That is the limitation.

Actually, the point of self-found is that you make your own rules and play however you like, it's therefore completely counter productive to have the game make these rules up for you.

Don't want to shop on the AH? Don't shop on the AH.
Don't want to utilise a follower? Don't hire a follower.
Don't want to use any Legendary items? Don't pick up Legendary items.

Do whatever you like, ignore whatever everyone else is doing, the world is your oyster.
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