Diablo® III

my 3k dps monk vs 305k dps monk.

My 3k monk performs better than my 305k unbuff monk.
Mind - blown!
Vox has converted me. Thanks bud. I finally have another fun reason to grind those paragon levels.

ZDS CS 3K monk
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Le0nell-1695/hero/34907270

305K monk
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/le0nell-1695/hero/24483073
Edited by Le0nell#1695 on 8/29/2013 4:45 PM PDT
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Are you sure. How does solo work? Do people just kill stuff for you in co op and wonder why it takes so long?

The single biggest improvement that I see is not using an EF, otherwise, I'm just not sure about this whole zdps thing.
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Well ok. The zds monk only performs better in groups obviously. And you have to have some dps players to kill for u! Lucky for me i have monster players on my list. I wasnt a belieber till vox showed me in a party. perma stun/vortex and damage buff. Plus palm do the same damage wether you have 2k dps or 900k dps.
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08/29/2013 04:53 PMPosted by Amiar
The single biggest improvement that I see is not using an EF, otherwise, I'm just not sure about this whole zdps thing.

I'm sitting in the same boat too. I think the idea of the zdps is great, but think you still can be a major DPS player while providing party buffs.
If I'm the only monk in the party for DEs, xp or something, I run something similar to this
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#UaVfSk!gXf!ZYacca

and easily maintain 250k+ dps unbuffed

The crux is, you got to gear out of OwE. and no much of a stun. if you have a CM wiz it's not so bad.
Some might not like soothing breeze due to smaller pull radius, but I think it's worth it for for guiding light proc.
Edited by Weegee#6520 on 8/29/2013 5:07 PM PDT
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LOL, good to hear, Le0nell. I wasn't trying to convert anyone ^_^ In fact, I like eveyrone else dps, so I can run ZDS.

@Amiar. It's about Implosion, mobility, and party AOE edps. And, to some extent, not dying and not having any party members die. ZDS does all and does them all well. And, it's kind of fun to play as long as you aren't alone!
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I have two specs like that. Both are great at this in different fashion.

I'm a huge fan of ZDS spec but just calling the ZDS is superior than other spec in that manner won't get much positive responses at all here, OP.

I'm glad you are having fun with it though. I do play that spec on my 2nd monk all time.

Have fun man.
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ya vox definitely did a good job putting this together... all my archon buddies love this build. this build is so rare and it's SUPER CHEAP!!!!. but only downside is it only works in groups you know. pub games 9/10 is a no go :( because people are usually under geared...

i would say zds and druin tr/bell are probably the craftiest builds to hit the market
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Trying to love this build!
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As great as it is to be a team support player with your friends, can't help but feel like a follower walking around with 3K DPS even in support role:) Better yet, they should allow 1 follower per group game, have a freeze scoundrel there to do some CC:)
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08/30/2013 08:55 AMPosted by Supes
As great as it is to be a team support player with your friends, can't help but feel like a follower walking around with 3K DPS even in support role:) Better yet, they should allow 1 follower per group game, have a freeze scoundrel there to do some CC:)


I know where you are coming from. I get similar responses to yours every time I join a new VotA group.

Every single GG geared VotA runner who has never seen this monk spec question me before the runs. Saying I’m going to slow down the run. A monk with all kinds of duped gears tells me I’m a noob and should get kicked out. But then they pretty much don’t say anything for the next 15 quickie runs.

I do have both ZDS and regular high DPS balanced set up to do any type of runs.
If I run with GG runners, ZDS is much better.

If I’m running with just average runners, my main one does it much better.
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What Kim said!

There are a lot of "tank monks" or "stun monks" running around that don't provide much group support. Don't confuse ZDS with them. Tank and stun monks don't make runs any faster.

Every ZDS has to run the gauntlet of questions/disbelief from others. "Just have to do a run," I usually say (in part b/c i'm impatient and have limited game time that I don't want to spend it all chatting). Explaining doesn't work that well either, since it involves explanation of edps, indirect edps, party edps, etc. Most players just see their sheet dps and think it's a good measure of their effectiveness in a group. It really, really, really is not.
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what amazes me is so many people don't use forums. if people would just log on the forum once in a while they would be educated and understand edps and sheet dps
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I stuck together a ZDS build yesterday as well and it works surprisingly well even though I got like super cheap items since i only had like 30m gold left, lol. It's nice since I can't really use my regular spec as a skorn user in team games. Plus its a nice change of pace.
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This is the built linked from your profile: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#WdVfkQ!Ufb!bbaZac

Just wanna check with you, what's the purpose of having two mantras, when you can't use them concurrently?
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@yuan

MoH is only used to proc GL or used against pesky elites. BoH is not as strong due to the poor radius. MoC is the mantra usually on.

@OP

Nice items and skill build. If anything, you're lacking cold damage which can be easily achieved with a cold/cs soj or a cold damage MH.
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09/01/2013 06:07 AMPosted by Fitz
If I run with GG runners, ZDS is much better.


Can you explain why? If I am running with GG runners, the group is set up properly, does not need a stun monk (CM Wiz) and benefits from the extra (if only slight) dps that a fellow GG geared monk could do.

I can see this benefiting a group that is not GG and does not have a Wiz definitely. This gear set up won't be used on the "fastest" clear times by any means. The skill set up works well for sure.


If your gear is good enough, you could technically run the spec with real weapons, dex gear, and LS if you have a CM wiz. Then it'd be pretty much the same thing, but slightly better/faster.

However, even then you'd be doing pretty crappy DPS anyways, since the spec itself hinders DPS a lot. Regardless of gear, most of your resources get dumped into activating Overawe, and terribly spirit inefficient cyclone strike.

Probably just not worth an extra 20b+ of gear to run in dex gear since the improvement really wouldn't be that big anyways. Running in a normal dex setup will pretty much mean your're looking for high DPS and eHP on pretty much every slot, since you'd need much higher eHP than a "normal" monk due to having crap self-DPS which results in poor sustain.
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If I run with GG runners, ZDS is much better.


Can you explain why? If I am running with GG runners, the group is set up properly, does not need a stun monk (CM Wiz) and benefits from the extra (if only slight) dps that a fellow GG geared monk could do.

I can see this benefiting a group that is not GG and does not have a Wiz definitely. This gear set up won't be used on the "fastest" clear times by any means. The skill set up works well for sure.


This is the conclusion I also came up with last night after being bored and building a ZDS set to play around with.

Granted the monk in your party is properly geared and skilled, bringing overall DPS IMO is better then MOH/GL.

For white clearing/exp farming, a proper team will gather large groups instead of smaller groups and deal dmg all at once..With a 2.0+ APS and high CC, they will be easily able to tag 1-2 targets with EP since spirit will be generated much faster when multiple targets are being hit with FOT:Q. Secondly, their CS will actually deals a good amount of dmg since the attacks scales off weapon dmg. Same goes for DS.

For elite clearing only, I guess the same as move could apply. A properly geared monk will be able to tag at least 1 if not 2 of the elites before they are dying. With a GG team, even without EP the elites die in under 12 seconds..

edit: My ZDS monk isn't the greatest as I just picked alot of the cheapest gear I could find to experiment with. I found the sustain to be pretty MEH tbh, even at 900 res,3800 arm, 70k life , 2000ish LOH 2.84/3.08 APS.
Edited by scrapz#1142 on 9/1/2013 6:43 AM PDT
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09/01/2013 06:07 AMPosted by Fitz
If I run with GG runners, ZDS is much better.


Can you explain why? If I am running with GG runners, the group is set up properly, does not need a stun monk (CM Wiz) and benefits from the extra (if only slight) dps that a fellow GG geared monk could do.

I can see this benefiting a group that is not GG and does not have a Wiz definitely. This gear set up won't be used on the "fastest" clear times by any means. The skill set up works well for sure.


As we all know, it takes 5-10 seconds to down most of the elites in a nice group. Having to use GL Proc/2-3CS/3-4EP/Overawe all within this period then have leftover spirit to DSQ to another pack is much harder to do with regular spec when I play.

Sledgefist is just a icing on the cake, the stun itself is certainly not needed with cm wiz in the group. I would love to benefit from a nice IAS daggers with proper stats for sure. Just can't seem to find the right ones on GAH.

The spec just works better for my monk playstyle. That's all. :)
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If I run with GG runners, ZDS is much better.


Can you explain why? If I am running with GG runners, the group is set up properly, does not need a stun monk (CM Wiz) and benefits from the extra (if only slight) dps that a fellow GG geared monk could do.

I can see this benefiting a group that is not GG and does not have a Wiz definitely. This gear set up won't be used on the "fastest" clear times by any means. The skill set up works well for sure.


The proportion of party edps that comes from the monk running buffs and spending spirit on DS/CS/OA/GL is really, really small. Like 1-10% if everyone equivalently geared. The effectiveness of ZDS is really the tons of spirit for buff uptime, CS, DS. It happens to come with insane survivability, stuns, and little to no knockback. Knockback can really hurt edps and clear times.

Toward end game, efficient runs are less about increasing dps (which is overkill except on elites) and more about Implosion and mobility. It's not about waiting for mobs or aggroing mobs to walk into your meat grinder; it's about vortexing 1-3 times with Implosion, then moving ASAP to next spot with DS (making sure to punch through first mobs so as to maximize area cleared with implosion). At 3.0-3.4 APS, ZDS just does this better than most GG gear set-ups. Faster CS, faster DS, more spirit gen, never worry about dying.

The player and their knowledge of the game also makes a big difference. Kim is really good at ZDS/CS/DS and he would be a good one to demo.
Edited by Vox#1186 on 9/1/2013 10:33 AM PDT
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