Diablo® III

my 3k dps monk vs 305k dps monk.

Idd, most players should be more informed about other classes and game mechanics. I play on european servers (MP4-8) and I have one of two situations:

a) insame farming with party flying through the dungeons killing everything in seconds.

b) hate and flames. Yesterday I was kicked 2 times. "wtf are u doing here. I will not carry you..."; "dude, what a noob, wou have 15K dps"; "leecher - kick him", [...] - and I hate that. I like party runs, synergy and efficiency but I feel very sad with the ignorance and arrogance of some players who believe sheet numbers are the deal.
Edited by Omrakos on 10/28/2013 5:58 PM PDT
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It's better now than it was, trust me :)

Players on MP 4-8 may not know anything about ZDS. Expect lots of uninformed in pub games.

The most aggravating thing to me in pub games is the profile checking. People just SITTING there in town looking at profiles. Just fricking play the game. Jump in and go. It becomes apparent really fast who is slowing down the run or not working together. It's generally the folks checking profiles in town.
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10/28/2013 09:07 AMPosted by Vox
The most aggravating thing to me in pub games is the profile checking.

Or just don't play in public games, and make some friends from the forums and play with known entities. So many good people in the forums, and many folks play more than one class. So it's not as if you have to venture too far outside of monk forums to play with different classes and stuff.

Personally, I just avoid public games. So not worth the aggravation.
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I never pub but how long could it take to inspect someone it will take me 1sec to identify leech or not
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Pub games are ok. Just run implosion (i combine it with nirvana to create huge groups of mobs in a very short time) and other players will realize very soon you are like magnet to mobs and will want to stick with you.

Or the group will consist of heavily under geared players (happens very often in mp10 public games) and it will make you leave the game very soon.
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@Tianzi

If I had to spend 20bil for new gear I would agree. I already have the gear I need for effective group runs, so I would have to spend gold to run zds, which would make me less effective imo, if even marginally so.

@Vox
1-10% of total group dps? Even with three players doing 5 million sustained dps, a monk would do well over 10% by hitting 2 mil edps. You made that number up. :P

Overall the build is unique, cheap to gear for, and great when no cm wiz is around. I still am not convinced it can outperform other (admittedly more expensive) gearing choices though.

My other concern is the popularity of gearing like this ensures monks stay strictly in a support role, when they can outdps every class with Nirvana in group settings. Other classes need to realize that as well.
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Pub games are fun.
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I actually do like pub games b/c you never know what you gonna get (box of chocolates!). Yes, lots of people show up to troll. But, that can be fun, too! Play the anti-troll or the out-do troll. Ends up being a competition.

Someone was so bored on the wiz forum one time, they offered such an experience to others. They'd troll FOM and another person or team would try to clear FOM at same time. Not sure there were many takers, but I could see it being fun.

@Fitz--Sometimes strange things happen that are very hard to explain with numbers. Like the fastest crypt runs I have done are with not one, but two ZDS monks! Implosions and palms galore. Even having experienced it, I have a hard time explaining/convincing others that it works and is efficient. Edps for farming has this whole other dimension which is # mobs hit & number of mobs skipped. That's a big one that I think gets missed on paper for ZDS.

Prolonged single/double target battles are a different story. ZDS generates excess spirit under those circumstances that can't be put usefully toward buffs/CS. The hybrid dps monk's edps contribution would be much larger under those conditions where excess spirit translates well into dps. Definitely more than 10%, as you point out.

I don't worry too much about the pigeonhole gearing. Every ZDS I've ever met has a DPS gear set as well. The flip side of this is that with LS nerf, hard-hitting new content, buffs to Transcendance, MOH, etc., I'd potentially be worried about the pigeonholed LS/DPS gearsets!
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Like the fastest crypt runs I have done are with not one, but two ZDS monks! Implosions and palms galore.


Was that two zds monks only? EPs do crap for damage in 4 party groups. Palms galore at 10% monster hp?

Once again too, I am not saying the build does not do what it does very well, nor that it works well, especially for the budget. Please don't take my critique of it as knocking your design. It is very creative.
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It's kinda sad this is actually an incredibly effective group build for Monks.

Pair this with three bats WD and you win the game.
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10/28/2013 01:38 PMPosted by DeZa
Pair this with three bats WD and you win the game.


That is exactly what I was talking about Vox.

;)
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That is exactly what I was talking about Vox.

;)


I'm guessing you are referring to this statement?

10/28/2013 10:40 AMPosted by Fitz
My other concern is the popularity of gearing like this ensures monks stay strictly in a support role, when they can outdps every class with Nirvana in group settings.


It's a valid concern, but that's just the way it is. Support is now more worthwhile then the traditional nirvana build in a group setting. Gear has progressed enough within the past 6 months that the previous "optimal group" is now outdated.
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It's a valid concern, but that's just the way it is. Support is now more worthwhile then the traditional nirvana build in a group setting. Gear has progressed enough within the past 6 months that the previous "optimal group" is now outdated.


Except noone has proven what the current optimal group is currently. Band Wagoning an easy to play and cheap to build cob wd has given rise to the current party style, not proof it is superior.
Edited by Fitz#1329 on 10/28/2013 2:27 PM PDT
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I'm speaking of the traditional CM Freeze/Nirvana/Implosion group setting. My point is the wide array of abilities previously needed to ensure consistently fast runs is just no longer needed. Gear has gotten so good we can just do a min/max approach of 1x monk 3x WDs and slaughter MP10 runs. Whatever role previous standard classes provided, this can provide in a more than adequate fashion.

I'm simply pointing out pigeon holing is inevitable and has already happened. I agree it's quite retarded some classes just aren't needed, but that's just the way it is at the moment.
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10/28/2013 02:36 PMPosted by DeZa
Gear has gotten so good we can just do a min/max approach of 1x monk 3x WDs and slaughter MP10 runs.


Which, if true that "gear has gotten so good," would hold true that monk + any random 3 classes should "slaughter MP10 runs" also.

The point I am making is that I have yet to see anyone proving WDs outperform other classes in a group setting. I hear things like "omgz so much dps" and "extreme deeps yo" yet I personally know of a farming team that does not use a WD and is getting 250-300 mil exp per hour and have yet to hear of a WD group slaughtering that, and that is one random group of friends I have.

My argument is people simply "believe" that WDs are OP because of some gimmicky boss kills and the ease of build and play. It is a bit of a digression, but I am getting the same from zds. Anecdotes and "trust mes."
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I think I'd prefer Azurewrath and find another spot to stack LOH if Azurewrath didn't have the 'repels undead' proc. It's quite annoying!

Azurewrath produces less spirit than Bonesaber in DW setups. But, the freeze is very nice!
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i get a kick out of seeing it in the pub games. something different...

but even in the pub games, elites are going down in under 5 secs with just a couple of dps players. I could only imagine what 4 dps driven players would do..
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My other concern is the popularity of gearing like this ensures monks stay strictly in a support role, when they can outdps every class with Nirvana in group settings. Other classes need to realize that as well.


I don't think a monk can outdps wd even with nirvana.

Top cob WD can do mp10 ghom in 15-16 sec. Thats like 7.5-8.5m edps. Noone comes close.
Edited by Notrius#6498 on 10/29/2013 8:58 AM PDT
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Umm.....Nirvana doesn't work with single target.....you're trying to compare apples to oranges. Pick something that is actually comparable.
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