Diablo® III

→ How Experience & +EXP gear Works

MVP - Diablo III (Wizard)
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I've seen alot of low and mid level people asking gearing questions while wearing +EXP gear. With the announcement of the XP and paragon/loot patch there has been alot of interest in experience leveling since the shared paragon levels will be based on total experience across all characters (at least as I understand it).

However, these same low/mid level people are always sporting ruby gems in helms or hellfire rings...and that's fine (kinda), except in most cases using these items really diminishes the power of their build/gear. It is my contention that most of the time you are better off simply running one MP higher with your standard gear (or upgrade your gear a bit) than running with a ruby/hellfire/leorics because you will simply be less effective with worse gear. I think this is the case most of the time, but you need to do the math yourself to see if it makes sense:

To wit, here is how you calculate experience:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[100% + MP bonus + ruby + ring]*[1 + Up to 0.75 from NV + Up to 0.30 for multiplayer]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, for instance, if you're playing on MP10 with a 33% ruby and 35% hellfire with 5 stacks and in a 4 player game the math looks like this:
(100+510+33+35)(1+0.75+0.3)=1390x

My example from a previous thread suggested:
So, if you're playing on MP4 with a 33% gem in an OS Storm Crow in a group of 4 with 5 stacks you get 519% experience
i.e. (100+120+33)(1+0.75+0.3)=519x

Swap to a 5 CC Storm Crow for instance (or a %life gem if you're using a mempo for more EHP) so you could do MP5 better and you'd be getting 543% experience
i.e. (100+165)(1+0.75+0.3)=543x

note: using a hellfire instead of ruby gem gives similar results

So, you'd be better off running with better gear ONE MP higher than with a %life gem on lower MP.

The poster on my other thread suggested the opposite...that running with Leorics Signet, hellfire, and ruby gem was always better than running on a higher MP with none of them. And, he's right - I mean, all three +exp items will certainly be better. However, I'd seriously doubt that you could handle the same MP if you've handicapped your gear using all three of these!!! So, be smart about it. If you're dying all the time using 2 or more of these +exp items or have to decrease your MP to make it work....then its not worthwhile.

When in doubt, before making a gear swap for +exp items, do the math or use this web tool to see if it makes sense!
d3xp.weebly.com

LT;DR - At MP3 or greater, playing one MP higher with your standard gear will ALWAYS net you slightly more experience than playing the lower MP with a hellfire or ruby gem. Using BOTH is mathematically better, but will impact the efficiency of your build/gear, and may not be worth it. If you typically cruise on MP10 and want to run with ruby or hellfire for the +EXP...knock yourself out.

[extras]-----------------------------------------

MP 1: 25% (up from 10%)
MP 2: 50% (up from 20%)
MP 3: 80% (up from 30%)
MP 4: 120%(up from 45%)
MP 5: 165% (up from 60%)
MP 6: 215% (up from 75%)
MP 7: 275% (up from 95%)
MP 8: 340% (up from 115%)
MP 9: 420% (up from 135%
MP 10: 510% (up from 160%)
&
you get a 10% bonus for each player in a group (up to 30%, of course)
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Edited by PieHole#1628 on 8/28/2013 9:32 AM PDT
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Why does nyan need exp?!?!?!?!?!
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I'll post what math I have later, number crunching junkies like me love big big tables :D

Here is how the calculations work:
When you play above MP0, you gain a base amount of bonus experience based on your chosen MP level. These values are as follows (for Inferno):

MP level------Bonus Exp-----Exp Obtained
--1-----------------25%-----------125%
--2-----------------50%-----------150%
--3-----------------80%-----------180%
--4-----------------120%---------220%
--5-----------------165%----------265%
--6-----------------215%----------315%
--7-----------------275%----------375%
--8-----------------340%----------440%
--9-----------------420%----------520%
--10----------------510%----------610%

Note that the Bonus Experience shown in the stat window doesn’t include the basic 100% (or 1x) experience you’d get by playing MP0 without any exp gear.

Nephalem Valor, Multiplayer Bonuses

NV stacks and multiplayer bonuses increase the multiplier applied to your experience gain. Each NV stack increases the multiplier by 0.15, and each extra player in the party increases the multiplier by 0.1.

For example:
MP8 @ 340%, with 5 NV stacks and 2 players in party.
5NV stacks: +0.75 to multiplier
2 players: +0.10 to multiplier.
Final multiplier = 1+0.75+0.10 = 1.85.

This multiplier is then applied to the total experience (in %) you’re getting.
Experience obtained = 1.85 * (340%+100%) = 814%

After that, 100% (base exp) is subtracted from this figure in order to arrive at the Bonus Exp value you see in your stat window
814%-100% = 714% (value shown in stat window).

Equipment that increase the Bonus Exp (Hellfires, Signets, Rubies)

These equipment work by increasing the basic amount of Bonus Exp before the multiplier is applied. Therefore, they also benefit from the multiplier increases from NV stacks and multiplayer bonuses.

For example:
MP8 @ 340%, with 5 NV stacks and 2 players in party.
Hellfire @ 35%, Ruby @ 33%.
Final multiplier = 1.85.

Experience obtained = 1.85 * (100%+340%+35%+33%) = 939.8%
Value shown in stat window = 939.8%-100% = 839.8%.

Note that the multiplier is applied AFTER all bonuses are added up, so the multiplier itself is irrelevant. What is relevant, however, is the total experience you’re getting, i.e. the “Experience obtained”. For comparison purposes, the numbers below will assume 1.00x multipliers, as for different scenarios; you can just multiply the given % by different multipliers to arrive at the different experience obtained values. Remember, to arrive at the values stated in the stat window, subtract 100% from the experience obtained values!

Assuming Marquise Ruby in helm:
Total increase in Bonus Experience: 33%

MP level------Exp Obtained w/o Ruby----Exp Obtained w/ Ruby
--1-----------------125%----------------------------158%
--2-----------------150%----------------------------183%
--3-----------------180%----------------------------213%
--4-----------------220%----------------------------253%
--5-----------------265%----------------------------298%
--6-----------------315%----------------------------348%
--7-----------------375%----------------------------408%
--8-----------------440%----------------------------473%
--9-----------------520%----------------------------553%
--10---------------610%----------------------------643%

Casual observation indicates assuming runs are effective, rubies only provide a bonus while playing at MP1 and 2, as opposed to MP2 and 3. Past MP3, however, ditching the ruby and going for a higher MP level makes more sense.

Assuming Hellfire, Leoric’s (25%) and Marquise Ruby (exp gear):
Total increase in Bonus Experience: 93%

MP level------Exp Obtained w/o exp gear--Exp Obtained w/ exp gear
--1-----------------125%----------------------------218%
--2-----------------150%----------------------------243%
--3-----------------180%----------------------------273%
--4-----------------220%----------------------------313%
--5-----------------265%----------------------------358%
--6-----------------315%----------------------------408%
--7-----------------375%----------------------------468%
--8-----------------440%----------------------------533%
--9-----------------520%----------------------------613%
--10---------------610%----------------------------703%

Here, it gets a little complicated.

Comparing two MP levels that are 1 level apart:

MP1w/gear @ 218% > MP2 w/o gear @ 150%

Running MP1 with exp gear nets you more exp than MP2 without any exp gear.

This comparison holds true for all MP levels 1 through 9.

However, one might argue that ditching a good amethyst and a ring for a Signet might severely impact DPS output and eHP, so let’s compare MP levels that are 2 levels apart.

MP1 w/gear @ 218% > MP3 w/o gear @ 180%
MP4 w/gear @ 313% < MP6 w/o gear @ 315%
MP8 w/gear @ 440% < MP10 w/o gear @ 610%.

If you’re running MP5 or lower without exp gear, you will benefit from an exp increase should you run MP levels that are 2 levels lower.

If you’re running MP6 or above without exp gear, you will not benefit from an exp increase should you run MP levels that are 2 levels lower.

Big caveat: All these comparisons assume that runs are done at the same speed and efficiency across MP levels. In most situations, run speeds and efficiencies vary wildly across MP levels, so the comparisons here are for general guidelines only.
Edited by Ridpath#1708 on 8/28/2013 8:14 AM PDT
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I'm with you PieHole. The Ruby Hellfire mania doesn't make sense to me either.

I even go so far as to say it may not be worth it period in MP10.

XP without Ruby+HF: (100+510)*(1+.75+.3) = 1251%
XP with Ruby+HF: (100+510+33+35)*(1+.75+.3) = 1390%

1390/1251 = +11% XP

Yes. It's higher. If you've given up 11% of your DPS to use your hellfire ring (unless you have a truly GG one), it's the same over time. Not to mention you may have to factor in extra death time since you've given up 19% of your eHP. It's possible to be worthwhile but I have seen very few rolled Hellfire rings that can match what a lot of the people I hear talking about switching have for a rare. It also makes sense if you are being carried by your group - freeloader.

Adding Leoric's to the mix only ups ante. It's also almost surely a substantial DPS loss, likely to the point where it cancels out the gain.

-dolynick
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People shouldn't be gearing to where they need the life gem in their helm. If they gear that way, they're noobs. I rock rubies doing ubahssss haha
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08/28/2013 07:58 AMPosted by pensfan080
People shouldn't be gearing to where they need the life gem in their helm. If they gear that way, they're noobs. I rock rubies doing ubahssss haha


so based on ur character roster 80% of the time ur a noob?
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I get to play the game 11% less, woot!
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MVP - Diablo III (Wizard)
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08/28/2013 08:01 AMPosted by Junger
I get to play the game 11% less, woot!


Just have a baby...then you can play the game 100% less!!
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Diablo III Wizard MVP | My street cred is limited to the friendly confines of the wiz forum
CM/SNS Wizard Guide: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8728753771
Danger: Please do not feed the trolls!
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08/28/2013 08:02 AMPosted by PieHole
Just have a baby...then you can play the game 100% less!!


Been there, done that...twice!

Learn2 rock baby in a bouncey chair with your foot noob.
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08/28/2013 08:01 AMPosted by SteelPhantom
so based on ur character roster 80% of the time ur a noob?


Wiz/WD @ PL100 no need for ruby anymore (but did use when leveling)

Barb I don't play

Currently leveling monk which has ruby

DH - doesn't count they just stink

So if you want to count barb you can say 20% of the time i'm a noob
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PieHole, just finished editing my wall of text (and numbers). Is it accurate? I certainly hope so!
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MVP - Diablo III (Wizard)
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PieHole, just finished editing my wall of text (and numbers). Is it accurate? I certainly hope so!


I believer that it looks alot more accurate! Thanks for the update.

I'm also thinking about this from a CM point of view (which the "help" threads were all from CM's). Unless you have an IAS/CC hellfire you're in big trouble right there (i've never rolled one, lol). Both are crucial to the build and if you only have CC then you're likely dropped a breakpoint. If you have IAS, then its perhaps justifiable, but you've lost CC. Same with OS Storm Crow. its an easy place for 4 or 5 or more CC....and if you go with OS then you've lost alot of CC.

And, if you're a mid-range player you're probably already struggling to reach 2.73 with 50CC....then to drop a breakpoint to run with a hellfire....or drop to 45CC to run with OS Storm Crow just didn't make sense to me.
________________________________________________
Diablo III Wizard MVP | My street cred is limited to the friendly confines of the wiz forum
CM/SNS Wizard Guide: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8728753771
Danger: Please do not feed the trolls!
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08/28/2013 08:42 AMPosted by PieHole
PieHole, just finished editing my wall of text (and numbers). Is it accurate? I certainly hope so!


I believer that it looks alot more accurate! Thanks for the update.

I'm also thinking about this from a CM point of view (which the "help" threads were all from CM's). Unless you have an IAS/CC hellfire you're in big trouble right there (i've never rolled one, lol). Both are crucial to the build and if you only have CC then you're likely dropped a breakpoint. If you have IAS, then its perhaps justifiable, but you've lost CC. Same with OS Storm Crow. its an easy place for 4 or 5 or more CC....and if you go with OS then you've lost alot of CC.

And, if you're a mid-range player you're probably already struggling to reach 2.73 with 50CC....then to drop a breakpoint to run with a hellfire....or drop to 45CC to run with OS Storm Crow just didn't make sense to me.
________________________________________________
Diablo III Wizard MVP | My street cred is limited to the friendly confines of the wiz forum
CM/SNS Wizard Guide: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8728753771
Danger: Please do not feed the trolls!


Thanks! I'm over-generalizing, I know, with the 1MP level gap and 2MP level gap. However, the advantage is that the results can be used for any class, as long as maintain your killing efficiency (hence the ruby/full exp, 1mp/2mp comparisons). Breakpoints don't matter much, as long as you can kill mobs as fast as you were killing them at higher MP levels.
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08/28/2013 07:58 AMPosted by pensfan080
People shouldn't be gearing to where they need the life gem in their helm. If they gear that way, they're noobs. I rock rubies doing ubahssss haha


Yes well, giving up the % life doesn't hurt as much when you're getting extra vit rolls from your non-int WH and non CHD pox. Doesn't it Pens?

-dolynick
Edited by dolynick#1290 on 8/28/2013 8:54 AM PDT
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08/28/2013 08:53 AMPosted by dolynick
People shouldn't be gearing to where they need the life gem in their helm. If they gear that way, they're noobs. I rock rubies doing ubahssss haha


Yes well, giving up the % life doesn't hurt as much when you're getting extra vit rolls from your non-int WH and non CHD pox. Doesn't it Pens?

-dolynick
'
you forgot sw breakpoints too
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MVP - Diablo III
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Good discussion here. Players are always asking about higher MP effectiveness for EXP.
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So in your ruby in helms thread, Junger answered my question about Hellfires and Signets on followers... if you add those into the +1MP solo play vs -1MP group play, how does that affect experience gains?
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On a related note, here is a very informative thread on the most effective exp routes, done by none other than Nubtro.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8796351234?page=1
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DH - doesn't count they just stink


:-(

Sad Jen is sad!
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MVP - Diablo III (Wizard)
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Casual observation indicates assuming runs are effective, rubies only provide a bonus while playing at MP1 and 2, as opposed to MP2 and 3. Past MP3, however, ditching the ruby and going for a higher MP level makes more sense.


Yeah, this is true. I'll update my OP.
________________________________________________
Diablo III Wizard MVP | My street cred is limited to the friendly confines of the wiz forum
CM/SNS Wizard Guide: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8728753771
Danger: Please do not feed the trolls!
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