Diablo® III

Ill be sad when they nerf the barb.

The only way they can kill premawrath is to remove the thrive on chaos rune.

Idk why they would put such a rune, if it wasn't for it to last forever ultimately.

If they nerf it, most likely they will remove CC imunity or lessen it.
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@Silverfire

I'm going to disagree with your viewpoint that permawrath hurts the gameplay experience more than it helps. My 2k hours on barb have been extraordinary and I'm looking forward to the next 2k hours.

When I press the #2 key, I unleash a 3mTdps maniac bent on destruction...and it's AWESOME.
If anything is detracting from gameplay, it's the fact that the other classes don't have a similar skill with equal benefits to their respective class. I DO NOT enjoy seeing my team frozen in place with arcanes flossing their butts. I also rather dislike seeing them jailed with a molten pit opening under their feet. When my team gets stuck in amber, I grit my teeth and dig into the E's as hard as possible as is expected.

There is only one thing that should have control over an insane bloodthirsty barbarian--- the guy clicking the mouse.

It's sad that Blizz won't allow the other classes to experience such joy and are contemplating removing said joy (read as fun) from players/game.

On a side note, I honestly believe that destroying permawrath will cause Blizz to lose a great deal of money....ask Jay how declining profits-player base worked out for him.
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@Bloodyzbub, I like your style, will add :D <3
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You should try playing other classes Bloody. Not only are they far from weak, they can be just as fun to play too. I'm not necessarily saying permawrath hurts the experience more than it helps, but I think being able to completely ignore cc effects makes things duller than they could be. I think that there should be some need to have stuff to watch out for, it makes things more interesting having to be somewhat on your toes. Like I said earlier, there should be a balance between feeling completely helpless vs an affix and being able to ignore its existence entirely. Right now, the two challenges I face on my barb beyond much else are a) maintaining wrath altogether (harder with Skorn) and b) not getting rubberbanded or lagged to death

The only way they can kill premawrath is to remove the thrive on chaos rune.

Idk why they would put such a rune, if it wasn't for it to last forever ultimately.

If they nerf it, most likely they will remove CC imunity or lessen it.

They've said from the beginning that they'd rather it be something used for emergencies. I think blizzard completely underestimated just how well geared players would ultimately become.

Picture using ToC on an early 1.03-era barb with a couple of pieces of crit chance here and there, and a couple of pieces of ias here and there. Maybe 40%cc with weapons master and br, tops. Maybe. 1.5-.1.8 aps or so dual wielding. The effect you'd get from ToC with that type of gear would be wrath lasting just about as long as the elite you were fighting, i.e. just long enough, but not long enough to last you across the entire map.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 9/4/2013 3:09 PM PDT
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"I think blizzard completely underestimated just how well geared players would ultimately become."

Agreed--100%

And going off of that statement would lead one to believe that they failed to test their product adequately. Don't punish the player base for maximizing in-game mechanics. Don't punish the player base for EVOLVING.
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This... However, can't really give you a +1 considering you're in fact one's who cry "Why would you create a class that can ignore CC and such" but hey, each to their own I guess...

Edit: Just a little FYI for some of you. CM Wizard should only have one problem in the first place, and thats stuff like Plauge, Molten etc... Frozen Orbs EZPZ. L2 Teleport?
Their is absolute no reason to not use teleport assuming you don't have the DPS to just burn them down.

a) I'm not crying for or about anything
b) I've got nearly 900 hours on barb, far more than I do on any other class, and the vast majority of those were in perma wotb

The distinction between wotb and stuff like teleport, vault, spirit walk, etc is that you actually have to DO something for those. You have to cast something. You have to look at a pack, notice its frozen, and think, oh crap, I have to get out of here. With barb, the flow of your game doesn't get interrupted in any way by a frozen pack. I find that both to be an issue and make the game more monotonous.

In fact, even if you don't notice its a frozen pack, it doesn't affect you. This was a problem for me at first when trying to adjust to wizard. I had trouble remembering that there was such a thing as frozen and that I had to watch out for it. I'd tend to rush in face first, and get myself frozen and sliced to death by arcanes until I learned to look at elite affixes and planning around them before attacking. It's not that hard, its just a tiny thing that can make the game more rewarding.

FWIW, if you don't know me, I've got both a very long history of posting on these forums, and I've got an equally long history of criticizing both double tornado and perma-wrath, despite using both and teaching others how to all the time. Objectively speaking, there are issues with it beyond other classes just qq'ing. Issues that actually cause it to hurt the gameplay experience more than it helps in some ways if you step back and look at it objectively.

Also, I'm unconcerned about any nerfs. I don't think blizzard is going to weaken the barbarian class much, even if they wanted to. (which they ultimately don't anyways most likely)


Ahhh, well, I suppose I understand where you're coming from now. Here I thought you were one of those biased kids who cry all the time about how OP the Barbarian is, and thought wrong too. For that I apologize for that and the link...

And yes, to be honest, I am most definitely worrying about something that may not even happen and I am sure the Barbarian will still be fun. (As long as I can still WW/Rend my Victory PermaWrath or not)

Edit: Damnit, forgot... +1
Edited by Ghost#11709 on 9/4/2013 5:03 PM PDT
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No one is forcing you to play with permawrath to ignore CC, silverfire. Switch WOTB to a fun skill for a day and do your runs. Try Furious Charge - Merciless assault for a bit with Rend. It's much more enjoyable, albeit slower.

As per the last page, maybe my post came off a little strong. I support people playing whatever they want, but the WW community is most vocal whenever their "ease of play" as a WW barb takes a hit. The most vocal get heard, and all we heard in the past when sprint-rltw coefficient was nerfed was "WAHH WAAHH WAHHH" from the majority of people, until the others mentioned found out it wasn't so bad if you had top gear.

While I don't want to hear that vocal majority whine about a clearly overpowered skill getting nerfed, I can't wait to hear it. I and I am sure many others never want to feel like we have continue to use an OP skill just to keep up with the Jones's. Variety is always better.
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TL;DR above --- Buff skills are boring. Active ability skills are more fun to use. Wrath is getting boring, but we feel forced to use it because it's so good.

Also, I think Shaman is correct. They will probably modify the Thrive on Chaos rune to remove the CC immunity part in exchange for continued permawrath.

The permanent CC immunity is what really makes Thrive on Chaos so powerful, because you can ignore affixes indefinitely. Assuming they do so, the choice then becomes whether you want permanent wrath without CC immunity, or a big temporary buff in damage (Insanity) + CC immunity.
Edited by sfxer#1565 on 9/5/2013 6:40 AM PDT
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TL;DR above --- Buff skills are boring. Active ability skills are more fun to use. Wrath is getting boring, but we feel forced to use it because it's so good.

Also, I think Shaman is correct. They will probably modify the Thrive on Chaos rune to remove the CC immunity part in exchange for continued permawrath.

The permanent CC immunity is what really makes Thrive on Chaos so powerful, because you can ignore affixes indefinitely. Assuming they do so, the choice then becomes whether you want permanent wrath without CC immunity, or a big temporary buff in damage (Insanity) + CC immunity.


You do realize there are ways around it, right? I mean, I can already picture myself laying out tornadoes to continue ticking while I'm trapped inside a jailer or frozen. Hell, I could just use the IK Strides to lower the CC time, along with other slots that have the affixes.

The nerf would have to be extremely drastic.
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TL;DR above --- Buff skills are boring. Active ability skills are more fun to use. Wrath is getting boring, but we feel forced to use it because it's so good.

Also, I think Shaman is correct. They will probably modify the Thrive on Chaos rune to remove the CC immunity part in exchange for continued permawrath.

The permanent CC immunity is what really makes Thrive on Chaos so powerful, because you can ignore affixes indefinitely. Assuming they do so, the choice then becomes whether you want permanent wrath without CC immunity, or a big temporary buff in damage (Insanity) + CC immunity.


You do realize there are ways around it, right? I mean, I can already picture myself laying out tornadoes to continue ticking while I'm trapped inside a jailer or frozen. Hell, I could just use the IK Strides to lower the CC time, along with other slots that have the affixes.

The nerf would have to be extremely drastic.

Those take specific decisions both with gearing and while playing, which is how things should be. Right now, virtually the only thing you need to worry about when gearing is just getting the highest DPS possible. Once you have the gear, crowd control isn't worth worrying about. (at least in softcore...) Nearly no one with the budget would even consider using IK strides over ice climbers in the game's current state. It's all about making the spec more difficult to execute both in terms of gearing and gameplay, more of a need to make tradeoffs and tough choices, but keeping it viable. I'm not sure how Blizzard will accomplish this, or if they will at all, but I know people like yourself would certainly appreciate it if they manage to.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 9/5/2013 12:07 PM PDT
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You do realize there are ways around it, right? I mean, I can already picture myself laying out tornadoes to continue ticking while I'm trapped inside a jailer or frozen. Hell, I could just use the IK Strides to lower the CC time, along with other slots that have the affixes.

The nerf would have to be extremely drastic.

Those take specific decisions both with gearing and while playing, which is how things should be. Right now, virtually the only thing you need to worry about when gearing is just getting the highest DPS possible. Once you have the gear, crowd control isn't worth worrying about. (at least in softcore...) Nearly no one with the budget would even consider using IK strides over ice climbers in the game's current state. It's all about making the spec more difficult to execute both in terms of gearing and gameplay, more of a need to make tradeoffs and tough choices, but keeping it viable. I'm not sure how Blizzard will accomplish this, or if they will at all, but I know people like yourself would certainly appreciate it if they manage to.


I would be interested in finding out what they plan to accomplish by nerfing an extremely popular build. I believe that the flagship of the Diablo franchise is found in the Double Tornado build.

There are several ways to go about it:

- CC Immunity reduction
- Furthering diminishing of the proc-coefficient rate; right now I believe it's at 0.08. Lowering it further might require a build beyond the the 8.67 ticks per second (see: 10-12 tick builds)
- A cooldown coefficient for the Whirlwind skill (see: Overpower's Killing Spree rune).

Another thing we have seen signs of, but rarely mentioned, is the Empowerment Shrine's effect on maintaining Wrath. Now, some guys can handle it in medium densities, but others will struggle mightily with the Empowerment Shrine buff. And this is, in a way, a harbinger of potential nerfs to come because I have always thought it was odd that while the cooldown was diminished, it was made more difficult to maintain certain skills. I believe the Wizard forum mentioned something about it as well for one of their skills.

If i were a betting man, I'd put my money on Blizzard copying the Empowerment Shrine mechanic to the Wrath build.

Edit: I should add that the Empowerment Shrine 'buff' would likely channel the original proc coefficient nerf.
Edited by acrimony#1561 on 9/5/2013 12:36 PM PDT
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I just want to spam EQ, is that too much to ask? It should break CC, and make you immune to frozen while standing in the fire... Lower the damage to compensate

~~~~~~~~Visit the sticky for helpful information regarding barbs!~~~~~~~~
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7591980848?page=1
Edited by RagingKoala#1984 on 9/5/2013 1:05 PM PDT
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Honestly, I think the Barb class needs an alternative CC breaker.

For example, DH's have Smoke Screen and Vault... WD's have Jaunt.

If, for example, Leap could break Jailer or be effective around Ice Orbs, then ToC wouldn't be as heavily relied upon.
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Those take specific decisions both with gearing and while playing, which is how things should be. Right now, virtually the only thing you need to worry about when gearing is just getting the highest DPS possible. Once you have the gear, crowd control isn't worth worrying about. (at least in softcore...) Nearly no one with the budget would even consider using IK strides over ice climbers in the game's current state. It's all about making the spec more difficult to execute both in terms of gearing and gameplay, more of a need to make tradeoffs and tough choices, but keeping it viable. I'm not sure how Blizzard will accomplish this, or if they will at all, but I know people like yourself would certainly appreciate it if they manage to.


I would be interested in finding out what they plan to accomplish by nerfing an extremely popular build. I believe that the flagship of the Diablo franchise is found in the Double Tornado build.

There are several ways to go about it:

- CC Immunity reduction
- Furthering diminishing of the proc-coefficient rate; right now I believe it's at 0.08. Lowering it further might require a build beyond the the 8.67 ticks per second (see: 10-12 tick builds)
- A cooldown coefficient for the Whirlwind skill (see: Overpower's Killing Spree rune).

Another thing we have seen signs of, but rarely mentioned, is the Empowerment Shrine's effect on maintaining Wrath. Now, some guys can handle it in medium densities, but others will struggle mightily with the Empowerment Shrine buff. And this is, in a way, a harbinger of potential nerfs to come because I have always thought it was odd that while the cooldown was diminished, it was made more difficult to maintain certain skills. I believe the Wizard forum mentioned something about it as well for one of their skills.

If i were a betting man, I'd put my money on Blizzard copying the Empowerment Shrine mechanic to the Wrath build.

Edit: I should add that the Empowerment Shrine 'buff' would likely channel the original proc coefficient nerf.

The empowerment shrine forces you to generate fury far faster than you can dump it in certain cases. Fury generation itself is likely going to be the issue post-nerf-apocalypse.

It's likely that cooldowns will play a larger role, considering that the diamond gem will reduce them if placed in a helm socket, and crit chance on gear will be reduced heavily.
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The empowerment shrine forces you to generate fury far faster than you can dump it in certain cases. Fury generation itself is likely going to be the issue post-nerf-apocalypse.

It's likely that cooldowns will play a larger role, considering that the diamond gem will reduce them if placed in a helm socket, and crit chance on gear will be reduced heavily.


Animosity might play a larger role in that case. We will see, but I wouldn't bet against the Barbarian forum finding a way.
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09/05/2013 01:27 PMPosted by Tropicalypso
If, for example, Leap could break Jailer or be effective around Ice Orbs, then ToC wouldn't be as heavily relied upon.


You cant honestly believe that ToC's biggest advantage is CC immunity.

I would take ToC over ANY other rune for WOTB any day of the week, even if CC immunity was removed. The IAS, CC bonus, MS, etc. is just too good to pass up.

I think everything should stay the same, but instead of barbs being completely immune to CC, just make it so that WOTB provides a CC reduction.

For blizz to say that barbs are a broken class and they didnt intend for people to be able to permawrath is just hilarious. They either didnt do much testing with the class, or they did know it would be possible and thought it would be okay (since its actually one of the greatest examples of synergy in the game). The problem is the people who complain about it, so now blizz has to do something to comfort those individuals... an easy way out is to say "this wasnt our intention." You mean to tell me that with all the CC bonuses a barb has JUST FROM SKILLS WITHOUT ANY GEAR ON, by creating a rune for WOTB that allows critical hits to prolong the skill, there wasnt any intention behind that? Please.
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@Nived, the other thing is that the development of the games has changed hands...what Jay Wilson might have intended, Travis Day might view as undesirably game-breaking. (Certain quotes from these two in particular do strongly suggest that that's the case)
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09/05/2013 01:45 PMPosted by Nived
If, for example, Leap could break Jailer or be effective around Ice Orbs, then ToC wouldn't be as heavily relied upon.


You cant honestly believe that ToC's biggest advantage is CC immunity.



No, I don't believe that CC immunity is the biggest advantage... ToC, as a whole, is a slam dunk in terms of buffs.

My point was that this class could stand to have an alternative CC breaker in the event that Blizzard nerf's Wrath.
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It'll all workout. Bliz has a way of fixing things that caters to he who cries the loudest. If they nerf us into the ground we will flood the forums with our tears and be back on top by the next patch.
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09/05/2013 02:02 PMPosted by tomcruise
It'll all workout. Bliz has a way of fixing things that caters to he who cries the loudest. If they nerf us into the ground we will flood the forums with our tears and be back on top by the next patch.

I'm silverfire and I approve this message.
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