Diablo® III

Ill be sad when they nerf the barb.

I have to admit, I dont really know much about the developers and their thoughts (dont really look into that stuff). I just know of the one statement i paraphrased. So now that you say that, I guess it makes sense. However, i still think its a joke tbh. At a certain gear level the game SHOULD be able to be broken. That is what we work towards. The majority of people NEVER want to die and would much rather get on the game and just faceroll the game and have fun. I will be the first to admit that although my gear is pretty high end, I STILL DIE.. and when i do i get pissed.

People make it seem like The REAL challenge in this game is HC. For the people who think this game is too easy and want more of a challenge they should play HC... doesnt get more challenging than that. "BUT IF I DIE.. I LOSE EVERYTHING!!!!" These people... i call them hypocrites. They want a challenge, but what is a challenge without consequences? There has to be some sort of aspect that makes it challenging.

So barbs get nerfed, and SC is now more "challenging." So what now? We die more often? Is that it? Is dying more enjoyable than running through the map and HOTA SMASHING everything in sight? If yes, play HC :). Would people genuinely enjoy playing a game more now that a class, which they dont even play, is now more difficult to play? Like i said i have no problem with a nerf, BUT DO NOT nerf the class into oblivion. If the difference is night and day post-nerf and barbs are legitimately horrible.. that would be tragic.

I have only played two classes with a serious mind set.. and that is barb and monk. For people who say barb is OP. Monk is just as OP and barb LOL. My OH Sword on my barb is worth more than my entire Monk, and my monk can clear just as well. IMO the true end game is farming DE's. My monk can clear just as fast and avgs slightly less than my barb in de/hr and ive only played monk for a week. I imagine once i get better, so will my results.

I guess we'll all just have to wait and see. All this bickering over what is not in our control is pointless. I guess im a hypocrite.
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09/05/2013 02:02 PMPosted by tomcruise
Bliz has a way of fixing things that caters to he who cries the loudest. If they nerf us into the ground we will flood the forums with our tears and be back on top by the next patch.


DH?
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I have to admit, I dont really know much about the developers and their thoughts (dont really look into that stuff). I just know of the one statement i paraphrased. So now that you say that, I guess it makes sense. However, i still think its a joke tbh. At a certain gear level the game SHOULD be able to be broken. That is what we work towards. The majority of people NEVER want to die and would much rather get on the game and just faceroll the game and have fun. I will be the first to admit that although my gear is pretty high end, I STILL DIE.. and when i do i get pissed.

People make it seem like The REAL challenge in this game is HC. For the people who think this game is too easy and want more of a challenge they should play HC... doesnt get more challenging than that. "BUT IF I DIE.. I LOSE EVERYTHING!!!!" These people... i call them hypocrites. They want a challenge, but what is a challenge without consequences? There has to be some sort of aspect that makes it challenging.

So barbs get nerfed, and SC is now more "challenging." So what now? We die more often? Is that it? Is dying more enjoyable than running through the map and HOTA SMASHING everything in sight? If yes, play HC :). Would people genuinely enjoy playing a game more now that a class, which they dont even play, is now more difficult to play? Like i said i have no problem with a nerf, BUT DO NOT nerf the class into oblivion. If the difference is night and day post-nerf and barbs are legitimately horrible.. that would be tragic.

I have only played two classes with a serious mind set.. and that is barb and monk. For people who say barb is OP. Monk is just as OP and barb LOL. My OH Sword on my barb is worth more than my entire Monk, and my monk can clear just as well. IMO the true end game is farming DE's. My monk can clear just as fast and avgs slightly less than my barb in de/hr and ive only played monk for a week. I imagine once i get better, so will my results.

I guess we'll all just have to wait and see. All this bickering over what is not in our control is pointless. I guess im a hypocrite.


Hmmm, that's not entirely fair.

The reason why HC is so challenging is because it's a lose all situation. In Softcore, it's a 10 second wait between death and revival.

Right now, I'm playing at MP5 for my third Barbarian re-roll. And guess what? I have had to pop two health potions during some ugly moments. I'm only at level 9. I am not saying that there's no challenge in Softcore, but you can't call us hypocrites because the challenges that exists in Hardcore are multilayered with complex issues -- disconnections, poor logistical planning, bad gearing, scarcity of good items, etc.

The Barbarian is one class altogether. Hardcore is five classes trying to fight all these server issues and beyond. There's much more at stake than a class nerf.
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Hmmm, that's not entirely fair.

The reason why HC is so challenging is because it's a lose all situation. In Softcore, it's a 10 second wait between death and revival.


I said nothing about being "fair." I said if people want a challenge, what is a challenge without consequences? Is it REALLY a "challenge" if you can respawn 5 seconds later?

09/05/2013 02:34 PMPosted by acrimonious
I am not saying that there's no challenge in Softcore, but you can't call us hypocrites because the challenges that exists in Hardcore are multilayered with complex issues -- disconnections, poor logistical planning, bad gearing, scarcity of good items, etc.


Acrimony..... you misinterpreted what i said. i said:

09/05/2013 02:20 PMPosted by Nived
"BUT IF I DIE.. I LOSE EVERYTHING!!!!" These people... i call them hypocrites.


This was directed at people who WANT a challenge, but arent willing to REALLY have a CHALLENGE (dont want to play HC, because theyll lose everything).
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Hmmm, that's not entirely fair.

The reason why HC is so challenging is because it's a lose all situation. In Softcore, it's a 10 second wait between death and revival.


I said nothing about being "fair." I said if people want a challenge, what is a challenge without consequences? Is it REALLY a "challenge" if you can respawn 5 seconds later?

09/05/2013 02:34 PMPosted by acrimonious
I am not saying that there's no challenge in Softcore, but you can't call us hypocrites because the challenges that exists in Hardcore are multilayered with complex issues -- disconnections, poor logistical planning, bad gearing, scarcity of good items, etc.


Acrimony..... you misinterpreted what i said. i said:

09/05/2013 02:20 PMPosted by Nived
"BUT IF I DIE.. I LOSE EVERYTHING!!!!" These people... i call them hypocrites.


This was directed at people who WANT a challenge, but arent willing to REALLY have a CHALLENGE (dont want to play HC, because theyll lose everything).


My bad. I are the stoopid today.
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09/05/2013 02:21 PMPosted by Nived
Bliz has a way of fixing things that caters to he who cries the loudest. If they nerf us into the ground we will flood the forums with our tears and be back on top by the next patch.


DH?


Nah, us DH's are blacklisted

;0)
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You can't consider an expansion a nerf...

Adding 10 levels, new runes, new skills and therefore re-balancing the entire game IS NOT a nerf, it's a complete change to all classes and even content.

The people begging and crying for nerfs DID NOT get what they wanted. The current state of the game is exactly how it will be until the expansion hits. That is 2+ years of the current balance, no nerfs, no rebalancing the current game, everything will remain exactly like it is today for another 6-10 months at least.

New stuff will be added, old stuff may be changed but calling an expansion and complete change to the entire game a barbarian nerf is just crazy.

I seriously doubt anyone wants the exact current skills and runes to remain the best even after 10 levels of new runes and skills are added, that would be a massive letdown and terrible for the game and the class.

The best builds post-expansion will hopefully be different than today, that's not a nerf, that's progress.

There is no telling exactly how things will be post-expansion, but considering it a nerf is bizarre and extremely pessimistic.
Edited by Apathy#1830 on 9/5/2013 4:09 PM PDT
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09/05/2013 04:04 PMPosted by Apathy
I seriously doubt anyone wants the exact current skills and runes to remain the best skills and runes, that would be a massive letdown and terrible for the game and the class.

I don't, but apparently I'm alone in that. It seems like the majority want their current gear to remain BIS, and their current skills to remain unchanged and the best...not much need to buy the expansion then, or even continue playing the game for that matter.
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09/05/2013 04:07 PMPosted by silverfire
I seriously doubt anyone wants the exact current skills and runes to remain the best skills and runes, that would be a massive letdown and terrible for the game and the class.

I don't, but apparently I'm alone in that. It seems like the majority want their current gear to remain BIS, and their current skills to remain unchanged and the best...not much need to buy the expansion then, or even continue playing the game for that matter.


Thank You!

The entire game is changing, if ANY level 60 build remains dominate at level 70 i would consider that a major failure. They have a massive opportunity to change every class for the better and i just can't imagine why that would be consider a "nerf".

People want the exact builds to remain identical even after new content and new skills are added. It just tells me they can't imagine anything different and anything different is therefore a nerf.
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09/05/2013 04:07 PMPosted by silverfire
I don't, but apparently I'm alone in that. It seems like the majority want their current gear to remain BIS, and their current skills to remain unchanged and the best...not much need to buy the expansion then, or even continue playing the game for that matter.


I thought we were talking about right now, present day, September 5th, 2013, and how a nerf would affect today's game.

Obviously anything in the expansion that improves the class and moves the class forward would be welcomed. Whether that be altering gear or skills. I never expected gear to hold its worth forever, nor did i expect the same to be true for skills. And obviously anything that sets the class back and makes it less enjoyable would not be welcomed. But who am i to decide what is enjoyable for people? My enjoyment comes from getting upgrades, theory crafting, and MOST of all HOTA smashing MP10 elites. Other people may want a more challenging game that results in a death every other elite pack. Of course this is an exaggeration, but is it? You saw what happened to DH's with their nerf.

I would enjoy an expansion that has an improved barbarian class with more skill variety and new gear, more viable places to farm with more content (seriously DE farming is about all there is atm), while still being able to enjoy the gameplay as i do now. The game is boring for me atm.. not because of the actual gameplay, but the lack of content and things to do, which hopefully an expansion can improve upon.

If we (barbs) get an expansion where we are now a weak class, but we get everything else (content, gear, skill variety, etc.). Was there any real improvement done to the game? How does one enjoy such new content with a barb class that has been watered down? Like I said i am welcoming a nerf, but only if i can still enjoy playing my barb in another way where i dont die every two seconds (who would honestly enjoy that?). Get rid of WOTB all together, so long as something else is there to replace it that grants equal enjoyment.
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Yes, changes are coming, and challenges will be coming with them. New skills for us to figure out, new gear for us to seek. How can that possibly be a bad thing?

This isnt a bad thing.

We're not going to be horrible after the patch and expansion, not a chance.

Now this is a bad thing. How could you be sure though?
Edited by Nived#1902 on 9/5/2013 4:41 PM PDT
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Tbh.

Dev's don't really understand that maintaining perma WoTB is a skill and a challenge in itself (unless you run specific zones like FoM or Keeps.)

Archon on the other hand is stupidly easy to maintain.

@Nived.

Agree with all your points. WoTB is currently the "barb crutch skill", we've got no good synergy other than the WoTB/BR:ITF/RLTW and all our skills when standalone are crap (except for HoTA and to some extent rend). If they intend to remove it/reduce it's functionality they better have some improvements in mind for the rest of barb skills or barbs will be so crap we'll all reroll crusaders.
Edited by Uberjager#6563 on 9/5/2013 4:47 PM PDT
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We're not going to be a weak class, no matter what Blizzard does. That's something I'm absolutely certain of.

However, it's most likely that we'll be weak in the expansion with our current build and skills starting out. Maybe we won't have perma wotb, maybe we will, but it'll take different gear and skill choices. The blues have stated repeatedly that the skill rebalancing and "loot 2.0" will be a package deal, so we're not going to get nerfed without the tools to cope. We're not getting nerfed today. What's going to happen is that the game is going to get revamped, skills and gear both are going to be changed, likely dramatically.

It'll open the door for more theorycrafting and analyzing stuff to death like we love doing here. That's the challenge, and I think most here will welcome it even if they don't think they will at the moment.
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We're not going to be a weak class, no matter what Blizzard does. That's something I'm absolutely certain of.

However, it's most likely that we'll be weak in the expansion with our current build and skills starting out. Maybe we won't have perma wotb, maybe we will, but it'll take different gear and skill choices. The blues have stated repeatedly that the skill rebalancing and "loot 2.0" will be a package deal, so we're not going to get nerfed without the tools to cope. We're not getting nerfed today. What's going to happen is that the game is going to get revamped, skills and gear both are going to be changed, likely dramatically.

It'll open the door for more theorycrafting and analyzing stuff to death like we love doing here. That's the challenge, and I think most here will welcome it even if they don't think they will at the moment.


I've made up my mind sticking to barb. And will do the same.

Just pointing out that if there isn't extensive changes to barb alongside a WoTB nerf, it'll be a pretty sad day for barbs.
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What we want or think isn't relevant anyways...we're at Blizzard's mercy and will just have to wait and see what happens.

I'm unconcerned though. None of the classes at the moment are particularly weak, not even demon hunter. You just have to know how to gear and play them. I don't expect RoS-era barb to be any different.
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I'll miss it slightly. To be honest I've two handed since release and only dabbled in DW so I mostly geared around not being able to perma-wrath, as I found it very hard at 1.67 /w low CC (no CC Mempo and Soj :S)

I took a long break right when crafting came out and when I can back I got some lucky rolls and it enabled me to hit 1.83 which made it possible to move a few stats around and perma-wrath even at low CC.

So yes I will miss it, but not at much as most.
The only thing I hope for in the expansion is a few more options for fury generation, It's not that I hate ITF but I really love Bloodshed and without ITF your main options are OP/Furious charge without giving up a passive :S
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I've been playing the Revenger build pretty much since day one with my barb, I won't even notice a nerf to WotB.

True I still use it but with the Insanity rune. Insanity gives you a nice 10 second waffle iron to use on an elite pack. I can usually take the pack out within the 10 second timer unless they are the run away type I spend half the time chasing after.

Only time I use the permaWotB mode is for ubers. That's where a nerf will hurt most. Nothing worse than getting caught in Kulle's time bubbles every 0.000001 seconds. Grrr.

Maybe they could bring the raven frost ring from D2!
Edited by Asmodeous#1189 on 9/6/2013 12:26 AM PDT
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I have to admit, I dont really know much about the developers and their thoughts (dont really look into that stuff). I just know of the one statement i paraphrased. So now that you say that, I guess it makes sense. However, i still think its a joke tbh. At a certain gear level the game SHOULD be able to be broken. That is what we work towards. The majority of people NEVER want to die and would much rather get on the game and just faceroll the game and have fun. I will be the first to admit that although my gear is pretty high end, I STILL DIE.. and when i do i get pissed.

People make it seem like The REAL challenge in this game is HC. For the people who think this game is too easy and want more of a challenge they should play HC... doesnt get more challenging than that. "BUT IF I DIE.. I LOSE EVERYTHING!!!!" These people... i call them hypocrites. They want a challenge, but what is a challenge without consequences? There has to be some sort of aspect that makes it challenging.

So barbs get nerfed, and SC is now more "challenging." So what now? We die more often? Is that it? Is dying more enjoyable than running through the map and HOTA SMASHING everything in sight? If yes, play HC :). Would people genuinely enjoy playing a game more now that a class, which they dont even play, is now more difficult to play? Like i said i have no problem with a nerf, BUT DO NOT nerf the class into oblivion. If the difference is night and day post-nerf and barbs are legitimately horrible.. that would be tragic.

I have only played two classes with a serious mind set.. and that is barb and monk. For people who say barb is OP. Monk is just as OP and barb LOL. My OH Sword on my barb is worth more than my entire Monk, and my monk can clear just as well. IMO the true end game is farming DE's. My monk can clear just as fast and avgs slightly less than my barb in de/hr and ive only played monk for a week. I imagine once i get better, so will my results.

I guess we'll all just have to wait and see. All this bickering over what is not in our control is pointless. I guess im a hypocrite.


Wow. +1 In every aspect.
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If anything, I think they should buff barbs.

Yeah that's right.

They need to buff other skills to come close or even exceed the damage potential of perm wrath builds at the expense of something else. More damage, less mobility. Or more damage and mobility, but no longer immune to crowd control. You get the idea.

WotB:ToC is too good. It's a buff of too much of everything desired (damage , resource generation, move speed, elite affix immunity) and the uptime can be indefinite. There are no compelling trades where you drop Wrath for something else. Go check diabloprogress for most used skills and it will become clear that there is a problem with Barb skill diversity.

I have mixed feelings about WotB:ToC. On the one hand, it's great when you finally hit that mix of cc/ias to keep the buff up easily. On the other hand, it makes me hate the game. Successful runs are more dependent on monster gaps than anything else... WotB also drives too many skill choices. You need battle rage and sprint to keep the buff going (sprint to get to that next pack). Then critical chance boosters ruthless and weapon master. So there you go, 2 passive and 3 active skills tied up. The only choice you have is what rune of sprint.

I totally get why Barbs need this skill. They are melee and cannot dodge as easily as other classes while still doing damage and it fulfills the 'hulk-smash' lore of the barb. But I think they need to spread around the crowd control immunity, movement speed, and raw damage to other skills. Give barbs another way to deal with frozen. The rest can be dealt with, but not frozen. There's nothing remotely comparable to WotB for dealing with frozen packs.

If you look at DH skills, you see so much more variation. Shadow Power is sort of the WotB for DH, but still not as high usage as WotB. Even still, the rune choice depends on your EHP, DPS, and skill choices: Blood Moon, Nightbane, Gloom, and Glide are all compelling choices. Furthermore, Shadow Power doesn't tie you to any specific passives. Nightstalker is good if you need high uptime, but you may only use the skill for reflect if you are playing a ranged build in a group. So Nightstalker is completely optional as well and using it really depends on the EHP, total discipline, active skills, and what MP you are playing.
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