Diablo® III

DIABLO 2 FANS

Runewords would make people forget
a lot of problems with D3 right off the bat,
but Blizzard refuses to put those in for...
uhh, whatever reason.


I think blizz doesn't want to add runewords because people want enigma, and that is the worst thing that ever happened to D2, coming from a guy who played from 1.08 and still play on occasion. runewords were awesome, making something feel mandatory for most builds isn't. with that said my wolf barb with ebotd and fortitude wrecked so hard. Wolfhowl is the best example of a build changing item, a barbarian with no points at all in combat trees was unheard of before they added that helm.
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Just some things that I can think of off the top of my head that I really liked about D2.

Open world, free roam to any waypoint you found, random map every new game, the ability to name your game, set restrictions on your game(level difference and amount of players), custom chat channels for clan support, customizing not only your char but your mercenary as well. Dueling in the open world. It was more social.

Finding end game items during the leveling process. Stone of Jordan, Ravenfrost, Dwarfstar, Magefists, Harlequin Crest, War Travelers, Gore Riders, tons more could be found in nightmare or early hell difficulty(hell was the hardest difficulty). You could also take a base unique item and upgrade it's defense through the horadric cube furthering it's use as an end game item. Magefist light gauntlets -> battle gauntlets -> crusader gauntlets, you could take them from about 30 defense to 90-100 defense at the end.

On top of all the items you could find as end game items there were a bunch of stepping stone uniques that were similar to end game items but slightly inferior, it would get you by until you could find the unique you were looking for.

You could take junk blue items that dropped and combine them with gems, runes and jewels you found along the way to craft your own items that had guaranteed affixes if you had a hard time finding a particular unique.

It was just a fun game from level 1 until the bots took over and spammed your game to death trying to sell items from online stores. I really miss D2. The botters are what killed that game for me.

D3 did get some things right. Auto gold pickup, breaking barrels from a distance(too bad they nerfed the loot inside), shared stash(too small in my opinion/needs 1 or 2 more tabs), fluid combat and awesome physics, monsters that die off the map still drop loot on the map, the ability to portal onto someone through their banner(way better than askin for TP PLZ!!!).

I think a lot of people misinterpret when people say they want want D3 to be more like D2. I don't think they want everything to be the same, they just want the ability to start out weak and build a godly character on their own wihout having to resort to the AH. Trade was a big part of the game in D2 but you could trade items you found for items you needed. Different builds were looking for different items so even if you found an item you didn't need there was a decent chance someone else wanted it.

D2 was just a more rewarding gameplay experience. It's hard to really understand unless you played it during it's prime before the bots took over and everyone started using hacks in PvP and pickit to grab the good drops.

I could say a lot more but I've said enough. D3 is a decent game with lots of room for improvement. Let's hope they make it more fun and social.
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after a hard and !@#$ty day at work, Diablo 2 didn't make me feel like %^-* by spawning elite packs with rigged mods.

when i play D2, i feel god-like.

when i play D3, i constantly feel like i am being trolled by the game.

and this is before talking about itemization.

the only thing i genuinely like about D3 is the ease of trading but my big issue is how the trading is done anonymously via AH.
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09/07/2013 02:54 PMPosted by Coodge
so iv been reading alot on forums how people wish diablo 3 was more like diablo 2 but iv never played diablo 2 can some one explain the good parts in diablo 2 that they would like to see in diablo 3?


A more open ended leveling process for starters. Getting "runes on rails" to reference an old-but-good Starbird thread back in beta, does not belong in Diablo, but rather an MMO. If I want to level a DH, for instance, and put all my skills in things involving throwing knives to try to bring back Blade Fury 2.0, it's pointless waiting until level 58 to get half the skills I want for that build, because at that point you just have to ask yourself, "Why not just change over your other level 60 DH?"

More depth would be a close second. I looked up some sweeping wind calculations the other day, and to my surprise, SW calculations take into account AS / Crit Chance / Crit% etc. WHY? That is the EPITOME of a skill that could synergize better for some builds rather than others. Make it completely based off weapon damage and nothing else, and 2H monks would love it. Base it on AS and DW monks would love it. Put a rune variant in that bases it on your dodge chance or armor and you could make it for tanks. The stat system is too damn sterile and idiot proof.

In D2, since you haven't played, there was an entire Druid tree dedicated to summoning creatures. Aside from some gimmicky creatures that weren't your main source of damage, your creatures were physical damage only. The problem is, you'd see physical immune monsters in hell. So you could either get "casts amplify damage damage on striking" weapons, to REMOVE physical immunities from some monsters, or you could spec lighter in summons, further in your spell tree, and go summoner / caster hybrid, and use other elements to AUGMENT your physical damage. You had options, but you had to use them.

I guess those are the biggest ones for me. I played D2 the RPG, not D2 the trading simulator, so my gripes will be different than those of others.
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Room names. eg. "come trade", "duels", "help act3" allowed you to customise your multiplayer experience.
PvP
Equipment Diversity. You didnt just stack crit chance, crit damage, primary stat. Weapon DPS wasn't the only thing in the world that mattered.
All acts were connected and you could travel freely between acts without creating a new game.
Playing the actual game was encouraged and a worthwhile time inestment. D3 is reverse (playing the actual game is a waste of time).
Bosses weren't cheeseball cartoon characters.
Story didn't suck.
Jewels, runes and items with multiple sockets were fun.
Items dropped frequently and didn't always suck.

Much more.
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Max out raven.

Let me know how it works out for you. Act IV NORMAL MODE, your 5 ravens are going to be terrible, even though you dropped all 20 skill points into it.


You max raven for AoE blind. If they're blinding their targets, then it works great! Raven was never meant to be an offensive spell, it's a utility like Cloak of Shadows.

2. Combat. The best part of D3.


I think D2's "combat" is better than D3's because it's more rewarding. I get hit only when I screw up, not because the game decides I was "close enough" to an animation that "started" so suddenly a mallet lord swings his hammer and I drop dead... while standing behind him. I can't stand TL2's combat or D3 PC's combat (Console is MUCH better), but I never found one gripe with D2's system, other than it was clunky due to how it had to stretch on my screen.

3. Being able to farm anywhere and get top-end items. In D2 there were only a few key areas that could drop all items, which meant running the same 5 minute runs over and over and over. Much more variety with D3.


I don't know that this is actually better. Having specific areas to farm meant you could actually have goals within the game. Having no control over what drops for you, means you have no way to measure build progression in your character. Sure having only one or two places per item can get tedious, so maybe I'd prefer whole acts for certain classes of items, or something. Some way of saying, "This item in my build is important to me, so to maximize my chances of getting it, to make me feel like my play time is being applied to THIS thing I seek, I'm going to farm X, Y, or Z." Now when I play it's like... well my gear sucks. I kind of need to improve everything. I guess I should just farm wherever has the least story intrusion and the combat is most fluid. Maybe I'll flip a coin...

09/07/2013 04:35 PMPosted by Diablo2PVPER
Well in reality this is 2013 and diablo 3 smokes out diablo 2.


I'm trying to find a logical implication between year and which game "smokes" the other.

09/07/2013 04:35 PMPosted by Diablo2PVPER
Dont believe me? Go play D2, servers are still up.


I just got done playing D2 for a few months. I made a battle mage paladin, and started remaking my blade fury assassin and summon druid that accidentally got deleted off one of my USB's. I'm taking a break, and I'll probably be back again in a month or so, but I do not play online.

09/07/2013 04:40 PMPosted by Diablo2PVPER
Why have the skill there then if it is just a "noob trap" skill? The only point is to get to the next skill???????


The skill itself isn't bad. If you pick a whole bunch of utility spells and wonder why you do no damage, that's on you. Ravens are for ele druids to blind enemies to take a little pressure off in PvE (Summoner druids don't really need it, since they have a wall of defenders at their disposal).

09/07/2013 05:08 PMPosted by Matthew
Items drop in D3, but people are too focused on the perfect near-impossible rolls, which isn't realistic.


I'm focused on whatever will help my build get me from MP1 to MP10. Due to the exponential nature of both the defense system and the DPS system well... those "perfect" rolls end up making a huge difference, unlike D2.

Nah, D2's drop rates were still ridiculous. Ever found a Zod rune? Griffon's? Death's Web?


I do believe I stumbled on a Death's Web once. As for a Zod rune, I don't think you were truly meant to "find" those, due to how awesome the rune upgrading system was. You could just pick up runes as your farmed and combine them to get whatever you wanted, though it would take some time. There's nothing like that in D3, where you apply your time played to a specific thing. It's all or nothing, and 99% of the time it's nothing. This is why everyone farms gold and uses the GAH.
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runes and runewords.

white items worthwhile , socketed 3 OS Mage Plate etc.. ( a lot of things in d2 had value and , there was a lot of anticipation on those items dropping) .

currency was runes ( really made finding a good rune great)

gheeds

charms

"diablo walks the earth"

stats

cube

dueling

items had some really crazy random stats, you could make builds around a lot of them (poison necro etc..)

ubers with a smite pally ( so much fun)

bnet and baal runs etc. seemed to always be something going on that was fun.

my hammerdin with nigma chest. I know a ton of people ran this but it was just so much fun.

ancients

powerleveling for meph's soulstone

meph runs themselves

chest runs

real soj drops

hellfire torch ( rolling high torch's was great)

could go on. overall d2 was just a well built game and why so many people played it so very long. There is a very strong lack of depth in d3. You'd had thought blizz would have taken what worked and expanded on it and what we got was better graphics with less gameplay quality.
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I think D2's "combat" is better than D3's because it's more rewarding. I get hit only when I screw up, not because the game decides I was "close enough" to an animation that "started"


True. I remember the threads asking why they would purposely implement such a change. Now, people just shake there head and say, "It is Diablo 3, of course it doesn't make sense". Loved watching the beta videos where people's corpse would be a full screen away from the enemy that killed them.

Minus that though, I find the combat quite fun. I'm playing a sorc on D2 right now trying to use lightning (doesn't shoot through doors, gets caught on wall) and making my way through places like Maggot Lair. As much as I love D2, it is foolish to say D3 hasn't improved things significantly (again, minus the purposely added BS targeting system).

I don't know that this is actually better... I guess I should just farm wherever has the least story intrusion and the combat is most fluid.


I like having the choice of variety. Sure, there could have been better ways to go about it, but in D2 I felt if I wasn't farming a lvl 85 area, I was wasting my time. One of the changes I was most excited about pre-release and I still like it.

I'm focused on whatever will help my build get me from MP1 to MP10. Due to the exponential nature of both the defense system and the DPS system well... those "perfect" rolls end up making a huge difference, unlike D2.


I was just replying to the poster who claimed D2's drops were thousand times better. You cannot really make a perfect analogy since D2 didn't have Inferno and MP's, but it is still close enough to say something like a perfect crit Mempo is the equivalent of a perfect Griffon's Eye.

The posters that have like 5k elite kills and demand that they be able to find all these BiS items... cannot decide if they just never played D2 or have played D2 and honestly believed that their ebotd wasn't duped.

I'm not saying the drop rates are good one way or another. Maybe it is bad, outdated game design and should change. Just noting that D2 certainly did have some outrageous drop rates as well and the average player couldn't realistically expect to get all BiS items in the game.

I do believe I stumbled on a Death's Web once.


Lucky. That was one item I never managed to find. Which sucked because the Necromancer was my favorite class and I've always wanted to make a GG poison nova nec. Tough without a few key items, like Death's Web.
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09/07/2013 02:54 PMPosted by Coodge
so iv been reading alot on forums how people wish diablo 3 was more like diablo 2 but iv never played diablo 2 can some one explain the good parts in diablo 2 that they would like to see in diablo 3?


Visit the D2 forums.
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Diablo 2 had Decard Cain - Diablo 3 no more Decard Cain
Diablo 2 had Charms - Diablo 3 has nothing in return
Diablo 3 has meaningfull health pots - In diablo 3 health pots are a joke
Diablo 3 had imune champions - diablo 3 has a joke of elites
When u looted a intem in diablo 2 u reaky looked at it - diablo 3 u dont care what it drops (all crap)
Diablo 2 had a skill tree (dont care if crap or not) - Diablo 3 has some nice buttons to press and u become someone else in no time.
In diablo 2 items had the corect stats on them - diablo 3 its a mess with affixes on items.
Diablo 2 had a Cow King - Diablo 3 has teadybears and unicorns,
Diablo 2 had runewords - Diablo 3 has nothing
Diablo 2 had a hellforge - Diablo 3 has no hellforge
Diablo 2 had a darcknes in it that made it look real (mobs atacking from the dark u ware afraid to move inside a dungeon- Diablo 3 has nothing and u are never afraid of any mobs.
Diablo 2 had move and cast town portal - Diablo 3 dosent have move and cast town portal.
Diablo 2 had cheats - Diablo 3 has boots
Diablo 2 had gold sellers - Diablo 3 has gold sellers
Diablo 2 had a necromancer - Diablo 3 has no necromancer
DIABLO 2 HAD NO LOOT 2.0 and the items were 3 times bether when they dropped they put u to think about them to understand how u want to use them.

Dont know why diablo 2 was bether then diablo 3 but alot of ppl say it was, so maybe we need to belive them.

The true diablo 3 should have: 1 copyed diablo 2 entirly, get the items get the mobs get the instances. get all the 6 chars from it and deliver them at start + 1 more new
In diablo 3 u should have had the chance to start with 7 chars to choose from.

They should have only, modify the maps, get the new engine, adapt it to d2, continue the storyy by puting us to fight diablo again and then start from there.

The story is we killed diablo in d2 so we should have had the chance to start by killing diablo and then move to death or something, not finishing the game again with diablo
WE KILLED HIM IN D2 - ALOT OF TIMES

ITS CALLED DIABLO III - not DIABLO that means in any ather series to continue the game from where u finish the previevous one.

The EXpectations for Diablo 3 in 2012 ware to high.

What happened with Diablo 3 all the rage from all directions, all the ppl that left and never comed back can bo compared to the ENDING OF MASS EFFECT 3

Diablo 3 yes can be compared to the ending of mass effect 3
Edited by AxeroSigitus#2520 on 9/7/2013 11:13 PM PDT
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09/07/2013 06:25 PMPosted by GCrab
I think blizz doesn't want to add runewords because people want enigma, and that is the worst thing that ever happened to D2, coming from a guy who played from 1.08 and still play on occasion. runewords were awesome, making something feel mandatory for most builds isn't. with that said my wolf barb with ebotd and fortitude wrecked so hard. Wolfhowl is the best example of a build changing item, a barbarian with no points at all in combat trees was unheard of before they added that helm.

I preferred that everyone was running with Enigma than everyone running a Sorceress? The problem isn't Enigma, it's Teleport.

Hi ?
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This is copied from a deleted post that I happened to keep open over the last 24hours.

Itemization:
D2----
+oskills(+teleport/werebear n wolf/etc),
auras on equip... LOTS of auras on equip,
crushing blow,
deadly strike,
open wounds,
hit blinds target,
knockback(100%),
prevent monster heal,
ignore target's defense,
slain monsters rest in peace,
freeze,
absorb,
cannot be frozen,
10% life steal on a helm..., life steal in gems and rings,
damage taken goes to mana,
and the many chance to cast skills on attack,striking,struck,level up, death
attack speed/faster cast rate
faster hit recovery
defense/attack rating
resists
stats/hp/mana

D3---
attack speed/crit chance/damage
stats
armor/resists

Off topic, to OP, try TL2 made by some of blizz north. Great item system fast paced combat totally moddable and inexpensive, great game to have if u like isoarpgs. Marvel Heroes is an isoarpg mmo. and path of exile has a massive interesting skill/item system, both poe and mh r f2p.
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Itemization:D2----+oskills(+teleport/werebear n wolf/etc), auras on equip... LOTS of auras on equip, crushing blow, deadly strike, open wounds, hit blinds target, knockback(100%), prevent monster heal,ignore target's defense, slain monsters rest in peace, freeze, absorb, cannot be frozen, 10% life steal on a helm..., life steal in gems and rings, damage taken goes to mana, and the many chance to cast skills on attack,striking,struck,level up, deathattack speed/faster cast ratefaster hit recoverydefense/attack ratingresistsstats/hp/mana


Where is this ? in D3?
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09/07/2013 02:54 PMPosted by Coodge
so iv been reading alot on forums how people wish diablo 3 was more like diablo 2 but iv never played diablo 2 can some one explain the good parts in diablo 2 that they would like to see in diablo 3?


Ok here i go

* Similar Itemization.

* Ladder mode

* Many viable badass builds per character and not only 1-2.

* NO CDs on badass skills

* NO super linear maps

* Nice randomization maps and mobs

* Boss kills >> Elites

* Manually Attributes

* A big event for something super nice and not just for 1 legendary ( like D2s torch or anihhilus )

* Gamble

* No RMAH ( i dont mind about AH that much but RMAH killing the game )

* Games lobby ( was cool to enter whatever game you wanted ,for trading/chat or PVP or make your own)

* 8 players per room not just 4

* D2 felt way more RPG than D3 , dont know why ( maybe questing and exploring ? )

* Atmosphere and darkness of the world/mobs/bosses

* No rainbows and happy hippos ... and bright colors

* This unique feeling when you found a really unique item/rune/ ( like when i found my perfect Griffons or made my perfect enigma or found my first Jah rune)... not existant in D3.

* I liked D2s trading way more than play the AH game , especially RMAH.

* D2s was never pay 2 win. Not officialy in game anyways.

* Replayability ( because of ladder mode and because of itemization )
Edited by Azatis#2345 on 9/8/2013 3:56 AM PDT
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09/08/2013 03:17 AMPosted by AxeroSigitus
Itemization:D2----+oskills(+teleport/werebear n wolf/etc), auras on equip... LOTS of auras on equip, crushing blow, deadly strike, open wounds, hit blinds target, knockback(100%), prevent monster heal,ignore target's defense, slain monsters rest in peace, freeze, absorb, cannot be frozen, 10% life steal on a helm..., life steal in gems and rings, damage taken goes to mana, and the many chance to cast skills on attack,striking,struck,level up, deathattack speed/faster cast ratefaster hit recoverydefense/attack ratingresistsstats/hp/mana


Where is this ? in D3?


In D3 all you care is ... dmg / all res / hp ...... Boooooring
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09/07/2013 02:54 PMPosted by Coodge
so iv been reading alot on forums how people wish diablo 3 was more like diablo 2 but iv never played diablo 2 can some one explain the good parts in diablo 2 that they would like to see in diablo 3?

I really liked the random maps. Thats probably one of the biggest things for me. Whenever i was in a dungeon i never really knew which way to go and that really was part of the game. The atmosphere in the dungeons were so good that they actually caused tension when you were deep inside a dungeon.

Another thing I really liked was the crafting system. There were Gems, Jewels, and Runes that were all needed to create some awesome gloves, an amulet, or a circlet. It took some time to farm the base item if you were thinking about monster level and where the item would drop, Once you had 64+ jewels and base items you could really make some of the most powerful items in the game. Yeah most players had enigmas and Hoto's but a truly godly player would have an orange(not gold) amulet. Also some of the sickest amazon gloves ive ever seen came from crafting. All 40/15 +2 java were crafted.

Finally I really liked trying new builds. Most people will tell you that diablo 2 had a few cookie cutter builds that people used. This is true to the extent that these were the most viable and efficient builds but, there were virtually endless ways to create characters. The way you build characters, the way players though about characters, and the synergy between skills and affixes (talking guided arrow, knockback, and pierce) was really inspiring. Every character started off hitting monsters with sticks and literally could end up a teleporting vampire with an undead arming shooting fireballs as fast as they could.

Diablo 2 was great.

EDIT: Check out this necro thread on crafted items. Some really crazy things there. 10fcr 24fhr belt wtf?
http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?624211-Crafted-Items-Showoff-Thread-Oranges-Only
Edited by MajorAjer#1259 on 9/8/2013 4:40 AM PDT
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Okay so since everyone's posts are long I don't mind ranting a bit. I just want to make something real clear about the direction Diablo 3 took. While I am not Jay Wilson or any of the other myriad of talented people who worked on this game, one thing I can say for sure is that they put story front and center. I never played Diablo for its story until Diablo 3. There is a reason for that, story always took a back seat to gameplay. For anyone who prefers the story of Diablo 2, tell me exactly who Radament was and why he was in the sewers. HE WAS A BOSS CHARACTER. We should at least know who he is beyond he left a woman a widow and an empty nest. Why did he kill her husband? Why did he kill her boy? To be fair Diablo 3 doesn't have the worlds most coherent and fine tuned story, but it at least makes an attempt at some world building and explaining the majority of what you encounter in the world. Again if I want masterful storytelling I will play a David Cage game, or for that matter a Tetsuya Takahashi game (I am aware that JRPGs are not the most popular topic on these forums, so sorry but its true). Also if I wanted an open world game that was not going to take into account story at all when I am interacting with that world, I will play (much as it bugs me to say it) Grand Theft Auto.

Now for those of you who want a western PC ARPG that does everything right, I have two suggestions for you:

If you liked being punished for poor decisions in the end game i.e. Diablo II, play TES IV Oblivion.

If you like adaptable but constrictive builds i.e. Diablo III, play TES V Skyrim.

Quite frankly I like Diablo III for what it is. And I don't remember who said it but it absolutely is a cheesy B-Movie. I like cheesy B-Movies. I'm a big Bruce Campbell fan, great stuff.

Evil Dead may not be Dawn of the Dead, but it had heart and it had character.
Diablo III may not be (earthshattering story driven game of your choice) but it had heart and it had character.

I have put roughly 230 hours into Diablo III between all of my characters. I put roughly 300 hours into Diablo II between all of my characters, but I'm done. I don't forsee myself going back to it primarily because I feel I have juiced every last bit of fun I can out of that game. I think that allowing free roaming untethered from the story of Diablo III would definitely make it more like Diablo II, but it would also be betraying everything the developers set out to do. That would be sad, and it would be a step backwards.

Anyway, sorry for the rant, but it kills me that people don't consider the endless stream of lore and character interaction a positive move for the franchise.
Edited by Jaeger#1418 on 9/8/2013 4:39 AM PDT
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last i checked, d2 still worked. if you werent trolling OP, id tell go buy it and play it, its only like $10 now. to everyone else who whines... again i say, it still works, feel free to go play it.
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09/08/2013 04:43 AMPosted by Chok
last i checked, d2 still worked. if you werent trolling OP, id tell go buy it and play it, its only like $10 now. to everyone else who whines... again i say, it still works, feel free to go play it.

This right here is the problem with the community. OP asks what we liked about D2, and others take it as a personal attack on D3.
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09/08/2013 12:47 PMPosted by MajorAjer
last i checked, d2 still worked. if you werent trolling OP, id tell go buy it and play it, its only like $10 now. to everyone else who whines... again i say, it still works, feel free to go play it.

This right here is the problem with the community. OP asks what we liked about D2, and others take it as a personal attack on D3.

Does not take a moron to know his intent. This is a D3 forum he knew well what he was doing.
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