Diablo® III

In my day, frost nova worked on Siegebreaker

Not so much in the console version of D3. It doesn't freeze him at all. And I'm talking about normal, not nm, hell, or inferno. What's it mean for the future of CM? How will this development technique be expanded upon?

Buckle up ladies and gents. Engage tinfoil hats. If you don't have the know how to make one, I'm sure someone has a few extra laying around that he could lend you.
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Wow... is it just SB? I was actually surprised FN worked on any elites at all... I remember dropping my sh!t when I saw a video of someone using a spectral blades build with FN on Diablo (cos he was hard with only 30k DPS back then).

I wonder if Mocking Demise will be used a little more now... can you test if he can be stunned as well?
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I can't check with MD yet but I have ground stomp on my barb, that has 100% chance so should be an even better testing tool.
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Oddly enough, I was more surprised those things worked on bosses than anything else when I first started playing. I had never played any diablo games before. I came from playing WoW where stuns and such didn't work on any bosses, so I just assumed that was the case in Diablo.
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09/09/2013 07:25 AMPosted by ChangBooster
What's it mean for the future of CM?

You mean, what's it mean for the future of Frost Nova, right?
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09/09/2013 09:56 AMPosted by Loroese
Oddly enough, I was more surprised those things worked on bosses than anything else when I first started playing. I had never played any diablo games before. I came from playing WoW where stuns and such didn't work on any bosses, so I just assumed that was the case in Diablo.

Stuns worked on everything in D2 but not freeze. You can snare the bosses so they're slower, but you couldn't completely freeze them. I don't remember any AoE stuns that worked on bosses but I do remember Pally's could use Bash (or whatever that shield stun attack was) was effective.. it was the most effect single target build I think. Permastun but only on a single target.
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Yeah D2 had permafreeze of non-rare, non-champ, non-unique, non-superunique, non-boss, non-cold-immune, non-death lord mobs. It was called glacial spike. It was ranged and had an AOE, you just had to spam it to get true perma freeze. Unless the mob was completely immune to either cold (e.g. frozen terror) or CC (e.g. death lord (the frenzy guys in the throne of destruction and WSK)) it instead applied a strong slow and slowed attack.
Edited by ChangBooster#1510 on 9/9/2013 10:30 AM PDT
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I used shield bash on pkers when they shut down Baal runs get them against a wall they're done
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This is in line with what I expected. They kept trying to tune energy twister proc coefficients...when in reality what they wanted to nerf was frost nova itself. And here we have it.
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09/09/2013 01:29 PMPosted by silverfire
This is in line with what I expected. They kept trying to tune energy twister proc coefficients...when in reality what they wanted to nerf was frost nova itself. And here we have it.

Completely agree here. Permafreeze was the problem. Having it not work on elites is what D2 was like.. that's fine IMO.
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09/09/2013 05:51 PMPosted by MrDuMa
This is in line with what I expected. They kept trying to tune energy twister proc coefficients...when in reality what they wanted to nerf was frost nova itself. And here we have it.

Completely agree here. Permafreeze was the problem. Having it not work on elites is what D2 was like.. that's fine IMO.


I also agree. I think FN is at least 50% of the issue behind CM. Without FN then CM goes from highly OP to being only mostly necessary to maximize dps. There's still some issues with it feeling mandatory to maximizing dps with EB and/or DS in other builds. Otherwise, without chain freezing mobs, builds are a lot more balanced.
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09/09/2013 05:55 PMPosted by Loroese
I also agree. I think FN is at least 50% of the issue behind CM. Without FN then CM goes from highly OP to being only mostly necessary to maximize dps. There's still some issues with it feeling mandatory to maximizing dps with EB and/or DS in other builds. Otherwise, without chain freezing mobs, builds are a lot more balanced.

If FN didn't completely freeze elites, I wonder if Blizzard would be used again in place of FN since it snares and gives better damage. That would make things a lot tougher for everyone. Hmmm... what about Blizzard: Frozen Solid (or whatever the rune is that has chance to freeze).. a stackable Blizzard with chance of freezing... could be interesting.
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If frost nova didn't exist in its current form, practically no one would have any complaints about critical mass, and IMHO they'd be risking destroying the majority of possible synergistic builds by trying to nerf it, or worse yet, remove it altogether. Especially when it'd only be for the sake of preventing people from freezing bosses (and possibly elites).

FWIW, I was running with a wd friend a couple of weeks ago, and he suggested I try the frozen mist rune, and it frankly worked excellent. The freeze from bone chill (or any other rune) was a detriment as it prevented mobs from reaching his CoB. Frozen mist didn't and it also added a decent amount of damage. Surprisingly, I didn't have any survivability issues either with very typical sns mitigation stats.

Just an anecdote to show that losing permafreeze doesn't have to be the end of the world, though admittedly I'd never step foot in an uber fight with frozen mist, unless I wanted my corpse to be carried.

Edit- I must have read your mind, because I wrote this post up before reading yours above. Frozen mist has no chance to freeze, however, it only slows, but this by itself is pretty helpful.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 9/9/2013 6:10 PM PDT
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09/09/2013 06:04 PMPosted by MrDuMa
I also agree. I think FN is at least 50% of the issue behind CM. Without FN then CM goes from highly OP to being only mostly necessary to maximize dps. There's still some issues with it feeling mandatory to maximizing dps with EB and/or DS in other builds. Otherwise, without chain freezing mobs, builds are a lot more balanced.

If FN didn't completely freeze elites, I wonder if Blizzard would be used again in place of FN since it snares and gives better damage. That would make things a lot tougher for everyone. Hmmm... what about Blizzard: Frozen Solid (or whatever the rune is that has chance to freeze).. a stackable Blizzard with chance of freezing... could be interesting.


That's what I'd use. If you can snag a +blizz duration on your OH even better. I probably wouldn't bother with the frozen solid though and I'd go with the longer duration, or reduced AP, depending on how it worked out.

Chances are they'll still change CM in some way, either directly or through proc changes, so I haven't put too much thought into it. That and I don't play SNS much anymore.
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The trouble is nothing balances out with frost nova.

Try playign any build in mp10 without some form of freeze - you will not find it enjoyable. Why? Bikoz we don't do enough damage and have no suitable hp sustain ability. Frost nova allows us to use our attacks multiple times to some efficiency.

Take a meteor build without freeze - your loosing 20%damage on an already expensive and comparitivelly weak also delayed meteor strike. with mobile enemies how easy do you think it is to hit them with any efficency without a freeze? i bet you will never target a fast leper to great success.

A close up melee SNS build - no freeze means those elites will always be moving out of proc situations and you will loose eb's shard's and overall twister dps all while having to tank - basically it's not gonna happen you will die.

If we had some form of skill choices that allowed us to play on mp10 without freezeing then hey bring it on, but as it is we need some kind of perma freeze or perma stun to have that buffer of time to actually do some dps - otherwise we can all go back to mp5 efficent kiteing specs.

without freeze we have no balance - with freeze we are over balanced in that area. it's a tuff situation
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It's not all that bad on MP10 without freeze. You just need high survivability to take a couple hits, like 500-600k EHP. Otherwise you can run a build like SS, Disintegrate, Arcane Mines, or even Archon. The reason those builds aren't as popular is because they're just not as efficient as SNS because of the freeze. If you take freeze from the SNS, then they're a lot closer to even.

I don't even run FN in my Mines or SS builds and they work just fine. They're just not as efficient as lower MP Archon, so I run Archon primarily. I just use a buriza scoundrel for the CB proc when needed.
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Yeah.. it's not really CM that's really broken.. it's CM WITH FN. Just have CM not work with FN. CM working with everything else is fine since it's not really game breaking being able to continually cast DS or EB or whatever, though I can see a DIRECTABLE Mocking Demise with CM being just as bad as FN.
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***Buff Meteor
***Buff Meteor
***Buff Meteor
***Buff Meteor
***Buff Meteor
***Buff Meteor
***Buff Meteor
***Buff Meteor
***Buff Meteor

If they take away freeze, they better compensate with buffing every skill.

The only reason my meteors even hit anything with a 2 sec delay is because I froze the target :>

***Buff Meteor
***Buff Meteor
***Buff Meteor
***Buff Meteor
***Buff Meteor
***Buff Meteor
***Buff Meteor
***Buff Meteor
***Buff Meteor
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Finally got around to testing ground stomp on SB and it does not stun him.
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I'm guessing then that bosses can't be crowd-controlled?
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