Diablo® III

QUESTION FOR JAETCH: Archon + Illusionist

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Dear Jaetch,
'Tis behooves thine to inquisit thee whether thoust Illusionist passive could benefit the Archon.

My friend, Jenpeezey, told me in a previous discussion that Illusionist can as a matter of fact reset Archon Teleport. As such, could this be an option for an Archon or hybrid Archon build?

Yours truly,
Casta
Edited by Castablanca#1545 on 9/10/2013 9:27 AM PDT
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EDIT:
Here is the previous post where I asked this question.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8517452246
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Archon beam ticks pretty fast, right? If you're already using CM, it should reset it pretty quick already, right?
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09/10/2013 09:29 AMPosted by MrDuMa
Archon beam ticks pretty fast, right? If you're already using CM, it should reset it pretty quick already, right?

So, there is no merit to Illusionist for us high-end wizards?
Why do we have so many useless passives and skills?
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Illusionist isn't useless, just probably not good to Archon.

Illusionist with Mirror Image or Teleport can make wizards pretty hard to kill.
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It's a lot worse than you'd expect. Not a fan of archon teleport at all. If it worked more like wormhole it'd be nice, as it is its only good for escaping danger, not making farming faster. Not a very good benefit when it's taking away a quarter of your damage versus improved archon. I suppose illusionist might help but the skill sort of sucks to begin with.

I feel like storm armor:scramble is one of the best the end-game options for the ultra ultra geared who have such an excess of both EHP and DPS that dropping some for movement speed would be worthwhile. It surprises me a little that nearly no one seems to use it, because poor mobility is archon's greatest weakness. For most of us, pinpoint barrier is a must in order to do the highest MP possible with the greatest efficiency possible, but someone like Jaetch could probably do MP10 comfortably without it. I personally use it in MP8 without any trouble.
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If you're running Teleport Archon, you're giving up 25% bonus DPS which will cost you in running higher MP levels. And if you're not running higher MP levels, chances are you won't be taking 15%+ damage in a single hit unless your EHP is on the [very] low side.

Teleport's cooldown is also reduced by Critical Mass. If you're running both Illusionist and CM, that leaves you one spot for either Glass Cannon to make up some DPS or Galvanizing Ward if you're smashing low MP levels. I never really understood the point of running both Illusionist and CM. If you're running CM, you really don't need Illusionist. If you're only running Illusionist, what will you do if you happen to drop out of Archon while it's on cooldown?

For maximum effectiveness with Archon, you'll be stacking both high DPS and EHP. At higher EHP values, nothing will chop 15% of your life in Archon form unless you take a direct hit from Savage Beasts, molten explosions, and the like. But in those situations you'd probably want Improved Archon to kill off mobs fast before they overwhelm you. The DPS output is drastically different between Teleport and Improved.

I can see the viability of Teleport Archon on mid-high MP levels with maximum DPS and virtually no EHP for the sake of triggering Illusionist. But if you're running high MP Archon, you'll likely need CM anyway as support in case Archon falls off (you're rather screwed if you have Archon with a minute on cooldown with nothing to reduce it). Again that leaves you one passive. If you're running negligible EHP, do you go Unstable Anomaly or continue to use Glass Cannon?

See: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/YORI-1558/hero/1093145

So let's say you run a higher budget and you get 600K DPS. That's somewhat viable with Teleport Archon on high MP levels. Say with Force Armor you're constantly taking 35% of your life in damage and thereby triggering Illusionist. You essentially get perma-Teleport. It's certainly doable and another path to take, but I don't see its max offensive and defensive output as great as the standard Hybrid Archon build with high DPS and EHP. You'll inevitably have to kite back and forth, especially against hard-hitting elites, thereby reducing your eDPS. By building in such a way gear-wise, you're blocking yourself from other/future builds (i.e. swapping to SS sets, SNS sets, etc.) because of the incredibly low defensive stats.

You can go Teleport Archon and Illusionist—heck, you can go practically any type of build if you adjust your play style—but I honestly don't recommend it for effectiveness/efficiency purposes unless you just want to be a little different... like YORI.

Edit:
Illusionist isn't useless, just probably not good to Archon.

Illusionist with Mirror Image or Teleport can make wizards pretty hard to kill.

My ninja wizard (currently paragon leveling as Archon) focuses on Force Armor + Mirror Image (Mocking Demise) + Teleport (Safe Passage) + Illusionist and skips Diamond Skin/Frost Nova/Critical Mass. It's a ton of fun to play and when I was at paragon 29, she was viable in MP8. I will go back to the ninja build once I get her to paragon 100 and see if I can change some gear pieces to run MP9 or 10.
________________________________________________
Diablo III MVP | Forever a Wizard
Archon Wizard Video Guide Series:
- http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9793089550
Twitter: @Jaetch
Edited by Jaetch#1861 on 9/10/2013 9:47 AM PDT
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Edit:
Illusionist isn't useless, just probably not good to Archon.

Illusionist with Mirror Image or Teleport can make wizards pretty hard to kill.

My ninja wizard (currently paragon leveling as Archon) focuses on Force Armor + Mirror Image (Mocking Demise) + Teleport (Safe Passage) + Illusionist and skips Diamond Skin/Frost Nova/Critical Mass. It's a ton of fun to play and when I was at paragon 29, she was viable in MP8. I will go back to the ninja build once I get her to paragon 100 and see if I can change some gear pieces to run MP9 or 10.
\
[hijack thread... again]
I made a slight variation to the standing SNS build and I'm uploading a demo of it now to YouTube. I'm still using my current gear but I'd like to get dedicated gear if possible. My skills are:

Wicked Wind
Mocking Demise
Blizzard: Frozen Solid
Crystal Shell
Chain Reaction
Shocking Aspect
Critical Mass
Cold Blooded
Blur

Just wanted to test if permafreeze could be substituted for 20% freeze chance and 50% stun... simple answer is, no. FN freeze instantly... with this build, you have to set things up a bit. Electrify enemies that chase you are actually to your advantage since you don't need to recast Mirrors... they'll die from the lightning and more often than not, stun.

I want to do a build with spectral blades though. Have you posted what you have in your ninja build? I'm wondering if it's still viable to play with Illusionist instead of CM.. but then again, I can't reset DS with CM :(
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09/10/2013 10:15 AMPosted by MrDuMa
I want to do a build with spectral blades though. Have you posted what you have in your ninja build? I'm wondering if it's still viable to play with Illusionist instead of CM.. but then again, I can't reset DS with CM :(

http://d3up.com/b/639015/linessa

I do use Spectral Blades. Here is the build that I ran last with: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#WekQSO!deW!YbbaZY

I have an old video that I should update at some point:
http://youtu.be/Z8Yz1JGCb3Y

(Here's a blue post about it so you know it's legit :P)
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/10185473

After I hit 100 with her, I plan on doing an updated video with my current ninja spec. The old video did not utilize Conflagration (used Glass Cannon instead) and my ninja wiz had much, much, much, much less DPS. But yes, Illusionist without CM (or even DS and FN) is possible. It's not as efficient as the other builds, of course, but it definitely is viable.
________________________________________________
Diablo III MVP | Forever a Wizard
Archon Wizard Video Guide Series:
- http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9793089550
Twitter: @Jaetch
Edited by Jaetch#1861 on 9/10/2013 10:36 AM PDT
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Ahh... that's pretty cool. I like the aesthetics of the costume. The mask especially! Better than that stupid looking knob hat.

Hmm.. Illusionist procs all the time! Maybe I should give it another go... but then again... this is using my current gear, which isn't great, but I guess it's more than enough for lower MPs. The demo video is in MP10... man, takes ages to kill anything.

Also finding that as soon as there is freeze wizard in a public game, my build is useless. Ah well, thanks for the info. Illusionist with Duplicates is what I use to use... as I said, it makes it very very hard for you to die. Unfortunately, it doesn't help with elite affixes which is why I went with DS and hence the need for CM :s

The hole keeps getting deeper :(
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@ Casta,

New D3 account?
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Thank you Jaetch and MrDuma! I gotta read through this carefully. But, in short, I agree with your stance. Illusionist is not optimal for Archon.

At Killua, yeah, I bought a new D3 account after perma-ban due to the gold dupe at 1.08 launch. Sadly, I lost everything. But nothing a few grands can't buy back.
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09/10/2013 09:37 AMPosted by silverfire
I feel like storm armor:scramble is one of the best the end-game options for the ultra ultra geared who have such an excess of both EHP and DPS that dropping some for movement speed would be worthwhile. It surprises me a little that nearly no one seems to use it, because poor mobility is archon's greatest weakness. For most of us, pinpoint barrier is a must in order to do the highest MP possible with the greatest efficiency possible, but someone like Jaetch could probably do MP10 comfortably without it. I personally use it in MP8 without any trouble.

agreed. Storm armor scramble is nice. However, I find moving between packs to still remain an issue. I do remember in Jaetch's video where he uses those environmental hazards to proc Scramble in between mobs, but that is not in every instance.

09/10/2013 09:44 AMPosted by Jaetch
Teleport's cooldown is also reduced by Critical Mass. If you're running both Illusionist and CM, that leaves you one spot for either Glass Cannon to make up some DPS or Galvanizing Ward if you're smashing low MP levels. I never really understood the point of running both Illusionist and CM. If you're running CM, you really don't need Illusionist. If you're only running Illusionist, what will you do if you happen to drop out of Archon while it's on cooldown?

Jaetch, why doesn't Blizzard award you masters degree or PhD in diablo 3?
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Thank you Jaetch and MrDuma! I gotta read through this carefully. But, in short, I agree with your stance. Illusionist is not optimal for Archon.

At Killua, yeah, I bought a new D3 account after perma-ban due to the gold dupe at 1.08 launch. Sadly, I lost everything. But nothing a few grands can't buy back.


That L4N set :( Pity...so many were lost during that fiasco...
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well if they should remove cm at least i know which goto passive for resets i will want.

how cool would it be if you could mirror image in archon for eh? awesome :)
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09/10/2013 02:56 PMPosted by Amos
well if they should remove cm at least i know which goto passive for resets i will want.

Please provide reference where you heard about the CM nerf.
Are they really going to nerf CM?
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I have no proof of this Castablanca - its' all just hearsay and conjecture.

there has been nothing said abotu removing CM at all, there has also been no direct remarks by the devs or anyone i know of for a confirmed nerf and the type of nerf it might be.

This is all jsut speculation by us the comunity and i'm just say that if something like a cm removal should occur then i can just use illusionist as i had never previously thought of that.
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Jaetch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-DWWIrZqu8

Pretty much the same except no where near as safe as permafreeze. A things I noticed... Frozen Solid isn't too bad at freezing at 20%. Mocking Demise, though iffy from random positioning, can also be used to reposition from desecrate and plague... though can push you back into the previous one lol

I would like to add Teleport into the mix, but then I'd lose EB. For this build, I don't think there is any other skill I can lose unless I don't want DPS or armor (which in this case, is DPS lol).
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MVP
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Jaetch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-DWWIrZqu8

Pretty much the same except no where near as safe as permafreeze. A things I noticed... Frozen Solid isn't too bad at freezing at 20%. Mocking Demise, though iffy from random positioning, can also be used to reposition from desecrate and plague... though can push you back into the previous one lol

I would like to add Teleport into the mix, but then I'd lose EB. For this build, I don't think there is any other skill I can lose unless I don't want DPS or armor (which in this case, is DPS lol).

I'll watch this tomorrow after work; gotta head to bed. Also, thanks a bunch for finding me the Dataminer! AHHHH!
________________________________________________
Diablo III MVP | Forever a Wizard
Archon Wizard Video Guide Series:
- http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9793089550
Twitter: @Jaetch
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Thanks. The only quest I even tried was Punch Diablo.. perhaps I should go back and do all the ones I can do (that is, Wiz/Monk ones... don't know if I wanna start up a new Barb/DH/WD to do the class achievements).

I grinded for the Jay Smash one heaps... a lot more than Dataminer... I think I just got really lucky.
Edited by MrDuMa#1541 on 9/10/2013 10:12 PM PDT
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