Diablo® III

Won't everyone just run barb in next patch?

Paragon 2.0 leveling will be uncapped, so one of the best ways to improve your dh, monk, wizard, or wd is to just play barb. Get a ruby, hellfire, put paragon points on xp/movement speed and just level up as fast you can. Right now (this is after the scorp xp nerf), rend/ww barbs are getting around 400-600m xp/hr on VSORCS runs. That's several times more than any other class because they can simply 1-shot entire packs at high movement speeds in mp10. You can make a barb from scratch to P100 in a few days. With that kind of xp rate, why play anything else?

Won't barbs be nerfed in the next patch?
Sure, but everyone knows what will happen next. Barbs will QQ on forums, say they destroyed the build and their lives, threaten to never buy another Blizzard game, try and bring down other classes/builds, then proceed to swap a few items and skills, then back to business as usual, just dominating every other class. Rinse and repeat.

What if I don't like playing "spin to win?"
Then don't play barb. But you'll be left behind. Take a look at what kind of benefits paragon points offer and it's incredibly beneficial. XP has always been important, but paragon points will bring it to a whole new level.

Don't get me wrong, I love my barb and don't want it nerfed, but am I missing something in the assumption that this is what almost everyone is going to do?
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I'll stick to wizard either way.

I was under the impression, or at least given the impression, that barbs were only strong because Jay Wilson was playing a barb. I mean, not even broken builds, if you look at stat rolls on items, barbs still have a clear advantage. I'm still rolling Int shoulders hoping to get high Vit... barbs just roll Vit because they can get 300 Str on shoulders. Hell, even Witching Hours, which is more suited to a caster build, is probably more a barb belt because of that Str roll.

A way to balance? Just make every other class stronger. If they nerf CM and give nothing in return, you'll see a long string of QQ posts from wizards.

The experience runs at the moment are just based on how the builds currently work, right? Pretty sure Blizzard will be seeing many accounts with 10xp100 barbs each with a week max play time except for the original.

But then again, this is thinking logically looking at balance. Blizzard aren't really known for the excellence in game balancing.
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09/09/2013 07:33 AMPosted by MrDuMa
Hell, even Witching Hours, which is more suited to a caster build, is probably more a barb belt because of that Str roll

What are you referring to? The inherent primary roll on WH is 90-100 INT
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09/09/2013 08:13 AMPosted by Melkor
Hell, even Witching Hours, which is more suited to a caster build, is probably more a barb belt because of that Str roll

What are you referring to? The inherent primary roll on WH is 90-100 INT

Yeah. Not entirely accurately, but I always figured it was more caster type because of the inherent Int roll on WHs. Probably not the best example but I'm sure you get what I mean with my other example.
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Check out my WD's new WH.
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09/09/2013 08:18 AMPosted by MrDuMa
Yeah. Not entirely accurately, but I always figured it was more caster type because of the inherent Int roll on WHs. Probably not the best example but I'm sure you get what I mean with my other example.


Nope. No idea. But I still love you, Murderma.
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HOT DAMN! Only that 9IAS...

Hang on... 394Vit on your BTs... that is disgusting... disgustingly sexy.

09/09/2013 08:29 AMPosted by Melkor
Yeah. Not entirely accurately, but I always figured it was more caster type because of the inherent Int roll on WHs. Probably not the best example but I'm sure you get what I mean with my other example.


Nope. No idea. But I still love you, Murderma.

Frakking Mumble :(
Edited by MrDuMa#1541 on 9/9/2013 8:31 AM PDT
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Nevah barb!
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Nevah barb!

Sweet, now I can catch up to you.
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We don't know what amounts of IAS, CC, and CD will roll at max lvl gear. So you can't assume that a class's ability to generate resource will play the same at lvl 70.

Also, even if they don't nerf barbs....who's to say that the new runes of current classes or new legendaries won't enable even higher xp/hr builds than the current barb one?

There are alot of moving parts going on with this xpack....
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man, the best I can do with my barb is like 250m exp/hour.

600m exp/hour is insane, lol

But you are right , Barb is way to OP in terms of exp/loot/DE farming
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09/09/2013 07:13 AMPosted by kiza
rend/ww barbs are getting around 400-600m xp/hr on VSORCS runs.

I don't know where you're getting these numbers from. The highest I've ever heard of solo is Chazhang's 403m/hr run which is likely the highest in the world. He states here that it would take 4 nearly flawlessly coordinated barbs geared like himself to even make it to 500.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8796351234?page=7#139

Det0x recently made a post here stating that he recorded a 363m/hr run in a party of 3, and had an "unofficial" run with some high-profile EU players which broke 400. These are players who are geared on or above your level, and we all know how much that's saying.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Det0x-2856/

The "average" barb can expect in the ballpark of 150-200m/hr when running solo.

09/09/2013 07:33 AMPosted by MrDuMa
I was under the impression, or at least given the impression, that barbs were only strong because Jay Wilson was playing a barb. I mean, not even broken builds, if you look at stat rolls on items, barbs still have a clear advantage. I'm still rolling Int shoulders hoping to get high Vit... barbs just roll Vit because they can get 300 Str on shoulders. Hell, even Witching Hours, which is more suited to a caster build, is probably more a barb belt because of that Str roll.


You listed the only two slots that natively roll high strength. Blizzard obviously wasn't planning to make archon spaulders crafts when the game rolled out. That was just happenstance which happened to favor barbs. Wizards have helms and gloves, and theoretically get the same benefit with gauntlets of vitality, but no one does it. (I think I'll start trying now though...)

Here's a list of max stat rolls showing that the grand totals are in fact equal for str, int and dex, and not imbalanced towards one or the other:
http://www.diablohub.com/guides/diablo-3-item-stat-maximum-values/

Barbs will QQ on forums, say they destroyed the build and their lives, threaten to never buy another Blizzard game, try and bring down other classes/builds, then proceed to swap a few items and skills, then back to business as usual, just dominating every other class. Rinse and repeat.


Sorry to barge in uninvited to this wizard party, but I find this "us vs them" mentality pretty silly. We're not barbs or wizards, we're all just gamers playing the game in front of us and are all equally at blizzard's mercy. Most barb mains are just as apprehensive as you folks about impending nerfs. I frankly don't care because my hope is to give all 5 classes more equal treatment than I have this time around, and I have the unpopular opinion that both barbs and wizards have issues that need to be fixed. (Not my archon though, that doesn't need to be touched)
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I don't know where you're getting these numbers from. The highest I've ever heard of solo is Chazhang's 403m/hr run which is likely the highest in the world. He states here that it would take 4 nearly flawlessly coordinated barbs geared like himself to even make it to 500.

Those numbers are for group play, not solo. I think Chaz's highest is 580m xp/hr w/ 3 barbs + monk. When I ran with him, he was getting 400m xp/hr and I was probably holding him back.

Don't get hung up on barbs (us) or wizards (them), it could be any class. I only mention barbs because they are realistically the best xp farmers. Let's say the crusader became the fastest xp class. Then people will only play that class because of how important xp will be. That's the point of this post. Players will be pushed to play only one class, whether they like it or not because there will be no cap. There was an interview where someone asked Josh about the consequences of these uber characters due to the uncap, but he gave a "oh well" response. I believe it's a very serious issue.
Edited by kiza#1883 on 9/9/2013 11:05 AM PDT
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I was under the impression, or at least given the impression, that barbs were only strong because Jay Wilson was playing a barb. I mean, not even broken builds, if you look at stat rolls on items, barbs still have a clear advantage. I'm still rolling Int shoulders hoping to get high Vit... barbs just roll Vit because they can get 300 Str on shoulders. Hell, even Witching Hours, which is more suited to a caster build, is probably more a barb belt because of that Str roll.


You listed the only two slots that natively roll high strength. Blizzard obviously wasn't planning to make archon spaulders crafts when the game rolled out. That was just happenstance which happened to favor barbs. Wizards have helms and gloves, and theoretically get the same benefit with gauntlets of vitality, but no one does it. (I think I'll start trying now though...)

You got me on gloves, I didn't know Int can roll that high on them. Helms don't benefit from 200 base stats though and we're forced to use other helms so crafting isn't really an option here anyway.

I'll agree that the happenstance that barbs are that powerful (by far) could have been purely coincidental, but this was 1.07? Better balance would've gone a long way. If RoS was already in development at 1.07's release, then maybe we're still stuck in the moment and not looking at the bigger picture Blizzard is trying to prepare for us.. but I just can't shake the feeling that some random higher up made barbs intentionally stronger. The gap between #1 and #2 (barbs -> wizards) is pretty huge... I don't even want to think about how DH players feel. It's like they spent time really fleshing out the possibilities for one class and completely ignored others.

I actually think barbs are the most balanced class in the game because they have options. The nature of the gearing system gives birth to absolute "best" builds per class but because barbs have more options, they break that convention since they're sloppy seconds are still better than the best of other classes.

I think the point of this thread was "based on current settings", barbs are retarded overpowered for the most important things in the game so your post feels a little belligerent.

Although kiza's post has the overlaying "barbs are broken" message, you can't deny the truth in it all. Barbs did it the best, got nerfed but came back... to do it better? The "us v them" mentality is simply a comparison.. if the comparison was silly then so would the mentality. The comparison in this case is fair and therefore valid. He's not talking about barb players as such... he's talking about the barb class and how Blizzard are incapable of correctly balancing their game.
Edited by MrDuMa#1541 on 9/9/2013 11:19 AM PDT
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09/09/2013 11:03 AMPosted by kiza
I don't know where you're getting these numbers from. The highest I've ever heard of solo is Chazhang's 403m/hr run which is likely the highest in the world. He states here that it would take 4 nearly flawlessly coordinated barbs geared like himself to even make it to 500.

Those numbers are for group play, not solo. I think Chaz's highest is 580m xp/hr w/ 3 barbs + monk. When I ran with him, he was getting 400m xp/hr and I was probably holding him back.

I'm only going off of what I've read here, maybe he has something higher posted on reddit (which I barely ever read), but it every indication appears to be that even 500 is very challenging for an extremely geared and coordinated group. Later on zylog says that he peaked 480 in a group with him, that's more in line with what I'd expect. Either way, anything 400+ is going to take top-100 in the world type players, and isn't remotely representative of what's typically possible.

And yes, I'm the first to admit without hesitation that barb is overall the strongest class in the game. I don't think any of it was too intentional. I think blizzard just underestimated how geared players could get, and the reitemization and drop rate increasing patches haven't helped. My guess is that their expectation was that barbs would be geared in such a way that they could pick out one or two offensive skills while relying heavily on defense, as we did in the early days of <1.03, not all out offense in every slot like we do now. There were some obvious oversights, like run like the wind tornadoes having inordinately high damage, and the damage calculation only using the mainhand. They either probably expected thrive on chaos to mainly help in defense, or that players wouldn't be geared enough (in terms of crit chance and attack speed breakpoints) to use it to turn barbs into the farming monsters they are now, or both.

The same can be said for wizards. It's unlikely that the devs intended for us to be fighting statues when they rolled out the uber fights, but the relatively easy accessibility of high-end gear these days has made a lot of "game-breaking" mechanics possible that the devs probably didn't envision a year or two ago. They've had time to digest all of this and rebalance the game for the expansion, so we can only hope that they get it right this time. With completely new gear and likely very retuned skills, any class could end up being the frontrunner. And as things usually go, there will be a frontrunner leaving the rest in the dust at first, and it'll take a series of nerfs and buffs to get the rest on an even playing field.
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09/09/2013 12:12 PMPosted by silverfire
And as things usually go, there will be a frontrunner leaving the rest in the dust at first, and it'll take a series of nerfs and buffs to get the rest on an even playing field.


Yeah I agree with this point. And it sort of disappoints me...cuz when the xpac goes live, everything we do will be "subject to change". And though that is the overall nature of an ever evolving game landscape, I think you know what I mean when I say it. I'm not talking about slight tweaking or new content over time..I'm talking, "Whoops..by .5 Proc Rate we ACTUALLLLYYYY meant .005." And the problem is that it takes them FOREVER to find that balance..and when they do? It's usually just in time to change it all again. Gets a bit tiresome.
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And yes, I'm the first to admit without hesitation that barb is overall the strongest class in the game. I don't think any of it was too intentional. I think blizzard just underestimated how geared players could get, and the reitemization and drop rate increasing patches haven't helped. My guess is that their expectation was that barbs would be geared in such a way that they could pick out one or two offensive skills while relying heavily on defense, as we did in the early days of <1.03, not all out offense in every slot like we do now.

I think a large part of that is 30% freeDR, which is currently bestowing unnecessary power instead of leveling the playing field.

Edit: read the OP wrong. A really harsh nerf to barbs has to be inevitable. At the very least, I'd think that some of their insane cc buffs will see some "adjusting."
Edited by Ares100#1965 on 9/10/2013 3:55 AM PDT
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I don't think it matters... as soon as you get 10x p100s, you'll just farm with your either your main which you enjoy more, or one of the barbs since they're more efficient.

When you get your bonuses in RoS, I guess you can just delete the "spare" p100s so you have slots for a new Crusader or something..
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@kiza

Yes, after I'll make 100 this second WD I'm currently leveling, ... I'm thinking bout rolling another Wiz for Archon and quick XP.

I have para10 barb, mayb I'll try to make him work and level him.
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