Diablo® III

New to CM wiz, a few questions for a Pro plz?

I just started playing my CM wiz. Just would like to know a base stats that you guys shoot for. As in 50% cc, xxx% cd, 2.5 aps (this I know is min), xxx AR, xxxx Armor, xxK HP? Just trying to see what I need to hit to make a good CM.

So far I'm freeze locking pretty good. Played Mp10 ubers with a few monk friends and that was easy as always with a CM in there. I would like to get my DPS up to around 225k - 250k to meet my goal of getting all 5 classes to 225k dps or above WITHOUT gear sharing. I'm getting closer, but need to work on my wiz, wd, and dh.

Here's a question, how much APoC do you need for a min? If I ditch the storm crow, do I have to get APoC on my source to make it still work? What other route do I have?

Any help would be great to get my CM rocking a little better and much appreciated.

Thanks,
Hambone
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Well I just grabbed new Tal's, blackthorns, and Vile. Went up from 187k to 221k dps. Almost there, but would like a little feedback from you guys :)
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Hey Hamb....

CHeck out my guide linked below. It has a section with stats to shoot for. With CM, about 18-20 APOC is what we shoot for (i.e. 2 pieces of APOC gear). One will be your Chant Will, and the other is a Storm Crow or APOC Force (depending on your budget). The APOC Force route requires a CC Mempo, which is alot more costly than the Storm Crow/non-APOC Force route (which is what I'm geared for).

As for Ar and Armor...I give some guidelines in the guide, but its really about mitigation. It doesn't matter what combination of AR and armor that you have, as long as you get to about 88% mit as a minimum for MP10. 89 would be great. Things like Litany ring with -elite reduction really help. Going to a sword/dagger setup gives the highest DPS, but you suffer with mitigation, plus lose the -elite reduction from the chant set (plus, to really epeen, you have to drop the litany).

Here's a snapshot of me a few paragons ago at 235k with an OS Chant Will and litany ring. I was only at about 88% mit (minimum) but its doable.

http://d3up.com/b/929803/galinda

Good luck,

...pie
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CM/SNS Wizard Guide: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8728753771
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So, looking at your toon, you are pretty heavily into vanilla CM. THis means that you have lot armor and AR and rely on Energy Armor to increase your mitigation. "SNS" my guide, swaps Energy Armor for Storm Armor...this immediately give you a 40% increase in DPS (eDPS, not sheet DPS) but requires that you increase your AR and armor to make up for the loss of Energy Armor. Its really an engame setup for CM wizards and gives you the most DPS possible. Expensive as hell, of course, to stack extra AR and Armor. You just have to decide if you want an engame setup for your wiz, or to just hit 225-250k to hit your goal.

I mean, there's a hundred different ways that you can add AR and armor to your toon to go the SNS route. Theres a hundred different ways to add INT and CD to up your DPS for your current vanilla CM route. Basically, your gear choices are solid....its just a matter of stacking AR/armor or INT/CD depending on which way you go.

Hell, that's a nice Chant Force.
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CM/SNS Wizard Guide: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8728753771
Danger: Please do not feed the trolls!
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I'd suggest you give Piehole SNS guide a read:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8728753771

In general for CMs, it's not about the sheet DPS as much. You need to balance out good freeze, good mit and DPS. Freeze and mit give you the ability to change out the defensive skills for offensive. Because CMs deal damage with many skills at once, we refer to a "damage multiplier" - that is, the approximate DPS we put out over our sheet DPS.

Here are good parts at what you have right now:
-You have min suggested APoC (min 18)
-800 LOH is good. Not great, not terrible.
-Your current build is acceptable

Now here are the bad:
-You're just under 2.51 breakpoint. You want to be slightly over, not slightly under. For a new CM wizard, you should aim for 2.73 APS - it's the breakpoint that's easiest to reach and gives you great balance in DPS and survivability. There are some terrific 2.51 wizards running around, but their gear is worth significantly more than normal (~10b+)
-You have very low mitigation (http://d3up.com/b/1058149 - look @ total dmg reduction). As a minimum, CMs try to run with 87% or higher. Most good CMs have 89%+. Since most CMs rely on LoH to stay alive, we regain life at a steadier pace than other classes. High level of mitigation lets us tank through the worst hits and survive while LoH heals us to full.

Those 2 bad points you cover with your Skill choices. To deal with low IAS and being under the breakpoint, you're running 2 active and 1 passive skills (cold snap, bubble stretch and evoc). This tremendously helps your freeze.
To deal with lot mit, you again run 2 active and 1 passive defensive skills (prismatic, crystal shell and galvanizing ward).

If you can get your IAS to 2.73 (with no buffs) and grab ~200 more AR and ~500 more armor), you can switch out your defensive skills for offensive skills and run a real SNS wizard. Your multiplier will be much higher and you'll be able to provide much better support for your team, either via re positioning (tele), time warp bubble, running conflag.. etc. I mean, running Cold Blooded instead of galvanizing ward and Time Warm instead of time stretch basically adds 40% more DPS by themselves.

If you want to have a GOOD 225k wizard, give Piehole's guide a read.
Edited by Ragnar#1875 on 9/13/2013 6:34 AM PDT
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Part of the problem is what you define as "good" is probably different from someone else. If we're talking mp10, here is my recommendation:

cc: 56 (2.5 aps, maybe lower for higher aps)
cd: doesn't matter
aps: 2.5
AR and armor should be mit.
mit: 88.3% (tho some say 89%)
hp: 50k
apoc: 18

Unbuffed dps is hard to say. I did notice that there's a big difference between 350 and 400k. But after 400k (say 450k) the differences become smaller because at that point, you're already killing things at a relatively fast pace. But for me, the higher dps you get, the better.

LoH should be around 1300+. If you have good mit, then maybe 900+. LS I'm not sure, but I would like at least 2.7 LS + 400 LoH.
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Ok, thanks Pie, I will give your guide a read. I'm pretty fresh at the CM wiz setup and don't know what skills are actually better then others yet. My CM wiz was started from watching the youtube vid "Mp10 CM Wiz for 10million gold" from shinobi. I said well for only 10m, why not. Well then that got me about 100k dps. Didn't like really so I added a couple hundred more :)

Right now I can run mp10 pretty good, some elites give me trouble. This is also solo. In a group with a monk or DH I was doing really well. Other night I jumped in Mp10 Ubers with Nameless, bumbly and one other monk and that was real easy. I kept everything froze well and the 3 fights were done in less then 10m total I think.

I've heard the term SNS wiz, but not sure what that is vs a CM wiz?

I will look at getting my mit to 88 or 89%. I thank you guys for the input, and thanks Ragnar for your feedback again as well. I am having a lot of fun tho with the Wiz now.

Oh, Pie, my chan force is a loaner from a very nice wiz friend. She said she'd like me to use for now because I freeze for her :).. I'm sure it's pretty expensive one tho with the high avg dam and int and perfect CC.
Edited by Hambone07si#1580 on 9/13/2013 7:25 AM PDT
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09/13/2013 07:22 AMPosted by Hambone07si
Oh, Pie, my chan force is a loaner from a very nice wiz friend. She said she'd like me to use for now because I freeze for her :).. I'm sure it's pretty expensive one tho with the high avg dam and int and perfect CC.


Uh, yeah. Nice friend, lol. Not that mine is GG, but its a pretty nice one, lol. And that's better.

So, like I said earlier, CM is what you're running....where you have low armor and AR and rely on Energy Armor for your damage mitigation...it does allow you to stack some more sheet DPS. "SNS" is shocknadoshards...where you trade Energy Armor for Shocking Aspect. That gives you about 40% more eDPS (effective DPS...it doesn't show up on sheet DPS, but it for sure is real in game, i.e. you kill things faster!) but you have to stack more AR and Armor on your gear in order to survive (since you don't have energy armor). Its alot more expensive to gear, but gives you the highest eDPS as a CM wiz. Oh, the "shards" part is running Diamond Shards....instead of crystal shell. It is part of that 40% additional damage. But you need extra AR and armor to make up the difference.

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CM/SNS Wizard Guide: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8728753771
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Nice guide Pie. Still reading through it trying to piece things together. So the multiplier thing your talking about, I'm still trying to understand that a little more. When I'm in my bubble lol, I'm at 2.64 aps. I'm going to continue to craft some more ammy's and see if I can get a ASI roll. I'm going to try to change my Frost nova rune for a little bit and see what happens, and change my passive to cold blooded as well.

With enchantress, I'm at 2.52aps, 2.69aps in bubble. Maybe a pair of 190+ Vita Inna's pants could change that? I have a ammy that has 650 LoH which is on my WD I could take if needed.
Edited by Hambone07si#1580 on 9/13/2013 8:29 AM PDT
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09/13/2013 08:24 AMPosted by Hambone07si
With enchantress, I'm at 2.52aps, 2.69aps in bubble.

THis if fine if you're playing solo....but if you play in a group you'll still be below the breakpoint. Your freeze will be worse and your LoH returns will be less. Basically, your survivability will suffer.

09/13/2013 08:24 AMPosted by Hambone07si
Maybe a pair of 190+ Vita Inna's pants could change that?

Maybe not, lol. Then you have to replace all the EHP and most importantly LoH. That takes up a slot on your ring or ammy. Inna's are tough to do when you have alot of Mit and EHP...and impossible to handle otherwise.

09/13/2013 08:24 AMPosted by Hambone07si
So the multiplier thing your talking about, I'm still trying to understand that a little more.


The damage multiplier is just a different way to express DPS. You have your paper DPS (what shows up in the box). But that's not your "real" DPS (or eDPS = effective DPS). Everybody does more DPS than what it says on peper....due to all of your buffs. So if you take something like Gohm, or the single elite in Warrior's Rest in Festering, divide his life by time how long it takes to kill him and. That will give you your "true" DPS. If you divide that number by your sheet DPS...that will give you your multiplier.

So, for instance, my sheet DPS is 277k. It takes me about 27 seconds to kill the elite in Warrior's rest...it usually has about 53M life....so, 53M/27s=1.96M. So, that's my eDPS. If I take 1.96M/277k=7.1x. So my multiplier is about 7.1. When taking about the best build (combination of active and passives and gear (IAS and CC and etc)) its tough to compare based on sheet or eDPS (since people are at all DPS levels). But the multiplier cancels all of that out and tells you how much better your build is compared to your sheet DPS.

So, for you, running Energy armor and Diamond Skin, your multiplier is something like 4. So, you are only four times more effective than your sheet DPS. Me, running "SNS" (by running energy armor, and shards, and stacking AR and armor) am about seven times more effective than my sheet DPS would indicate. So, basically, if you stacked some more INT and CD and made it to 277k DPS like me one might think that your wiz would be doing the same DPS as mine. Not true....that's what the multiplier will tell you.

So, that, in a nutshell, is what the multiplier is and how you calculate and what information it conveys. Every class has them, you just have to kill an elite (a few times...and take the average) or Gohm or something...and do the math.
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Diablo III Wizard MVP | My street cred is limited to the friendly confines of the wiz forum
CM/SNS Wizard Guide: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8728753771
Danger: Please do not feed the trolls!
Edited by PieHole#1628 on 9/13/2013 10:27 AM PDT
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Thank you very much. That was a very good example on the multiplier!! I fully understand now. So it seems your leaning on getting me to the 2.73 breakpoint and not the 2.51 correct? 2.51 is ok for CM, but 2.73 is needed for SNS, plus more armor and AR.

I've been taking in so much info the past 2 weeks as I've brought my WD up from fresh, and geared my Wiz and DH as well. So I've been learning everything I can about those 3 classes on top of knowing the Monk and Barb already lol. There's a lot to know if you play all 5 classes that's for sure!!

I will look at some more AH items and see what looks good. But for the inna's pants, I was saying those could be a good choice for the 9% ASI increase, BUT I'd put on my AMMY that has 647 LoH to make up for the lose from my Blackthorns pants, which would actually be 247 more LoH. I wouldn't do without that. Time for some more shopping :)
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