Diablo® III

[Review/Video] - Reaper of Souls Monk Changes


Didn't read it all, but you may have missed the crossing out of the Fists of Thunder having higher attack speed than other generators - ie nerf to aps, and explains the increased spirit/damage changes.

edit: and congrats on being green, didn't notice before.

This is a very interesting take on the FoT changes!

I assumed that the removal of that line of text was to make the tooltip less "frilly" and more "to the point." However, you could definitely interpret it that way ... that would be a pretty good change I think.

It would help put FoT in line with other gens, especially if WotHF is sped up a bit.

Very cool idea!!


I agree with RavynAzn, you should really take the aps nerf as intended. There is no other reasonable conclusion to reach after seeing the spirit per hit AND damage % increased. Then your analysis for the other generators will be less biased, and a discussion on spirit gen balance can be had, since right now your analysis is still FoT cookie for most situations.

Current spirit generators:
FoT: aps: 1.52 sph: 6 sps: 9.12 wd: 110%
DR: aps: 1.34 sph: 6 sps: 8.04 wd: 110%
CW: aps: 1.17 sph: 7 sps: 8.17 wd: 110%
WotHF: aps: 1.14 sph: 8 sps: 9.12 wd: 140%

Buffing FoT's sph and wd wouldn't make sense unless the aps was nerfed. My guess is probably around DR's speed.
Edited by Davlok#1847 on 9/16/2013 3:42 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Thanks Druin!
Your thread are always very well thought out and written.
I’ll have to come back a bit everyday to read this =)
Reply Quote
09/16/2013 12:42 PMPosted by Druin
FoT - Q with a teleport + non-knockback WoL + this passive = HUGE BUFFS.


And this is probably what I'll be running since it's my go-to spec right now. Druin, question. Since you don't get the double proc with FoT-Q to benifit SW-Cyclone, would a change in SW rune be a smart idea? Maybe firestorm fore a steady stream of health return or the spirit regen one for even more bells?
Edited by Narcolepsy#1563 on 9/16/2013 4:03 PM PDT
Reply Quote
MOC Reclamation will definitely be a group favorite. A WD could end up getting a lot of mana back from kills, allowing use to possibly gear out of the Zunimassa 4pc and into some monstrous damage gear. I'm hoping that will be possible anyway, but one can dream!
Reply Quote
From a HC perspective, yes MoH Sustenance is nice, we mainly use that mantra/rune since we run with GL and the 20% DPS increase is hard to ignore.

Some of us will use CS-SB and MoC Overawe, makes pretty much anything pretty simple depending on the group.

Nice write-up Druin, but it is high time you played HC. You will probably have a better understanding of the skills for HC.
Reply Quote
MoC: Reclamation, bells without knockback, and teleporting FoT: Quickening will pretty much guarantee that I'll be a bell monk after the expansion hits if these updates remain the same. It looks like there are going to be a lot of very compelling options to play with, though. And I doubt I need to say this, but it definitely appears that the skills are being designed with item synergies in mind, and that makes me verrrryyyy happy. : )
Reply Quote
Great info and review so far. Didn't get through it all and skimmed a bit but I'll circle back. If the Transcendence changes go through as proposed that would be a huge benefit to make monks more tanky imho. Nice work!
Reply Quote
@Druin

I more like read your thread before this because green color make hurt my eyes lol hahaha

btw, nice info and thanks for sharring Druin
Reply Quote
Deadly Reach Generate: 7 Spirit per attack / Project lines of pure force over a short distance for 110% weapon damage. as Physical. / Every third hit has a 30% chance to knock up enemies.


lol knock up the enemies.... i love this skill!!!!
jk
awesome info Druin, i can't believe i'm getting excited about Inner Sanctuary.
Reply Quote
Dashing Strike
Dashing Strike Cost: 50 Spirit / Quickly dash up to 50 yards, striking enemies along the way for 535% weapon damage as Physical.


50 Spirit!
30 Spirit!

This makes me very sad. Once I started using DS everything changed for me. It's one of the most gratifying and versatile skills I have in my arsenal. I always say there are 6 classes. The 6th being Monk with DS; yes that may sound a bit extreme but I love that darn skill!

30 spirit, humph :((
Reply Quote
Dashing Strike
Dashing Strike Cost: 50 Spirit / Quickly dash up to 50 yards, striking enemies along the way for 535% weapon damage as Physical.


50 Spirit!
30 Spirit!

This makes me very sad. Once I started using DS everything changed for me. It's one of the most gratifying and versatile skills I have in my arsenal. I always say there are 6 classes. The 6th being Monk with DS; yes that may sound a bit extreme but I love that darn skill!

30 spirit, humph :((


After you sport 300 Spirit and ample SR to DS every second or two, your troubles will be an afterthought.

Cheers,
CC-
Reply Quote
Druin,

Terrific video as usual bud. and tons of info in your write up as well!

One thing I heard in your video that may have gone unnoticed as you were flying through the skills and runes.

You said on CW-Tsunami that it was fairly useless because they had removed the movement part of it or something along that line? but the movement reductions is a flat 60% for all runes now - just like teleport on FoT. Tsunami itself now increases the 11yards to 17yards on the 3rd strike. That while not game-breaking is still useable for sure and not total junk as the video seemed to imply!

Excited for these changes as it seems we have a game designer on our side FINALLY - I still hold that there is more to this than meets the eye. IE: see now how Barb is losing Permawrath, etc. It was always OP and now that Jay is gone they are taking it out b/c his favorite class was Barb he liked it in there. Anyway sorry for getting offtopic -

when it comes to DS - I really think they are going to make this the signature spell for monks. I remember when we were pitched Monk during and before Beta that he/she would be HIGHLY mobile in combat and crazy fast paced melee action in combat. DS would theoretically now provide that where TR is a means to get to next combat faster. I believe they'll nail this skill and with the various SR abilities incoming along with other nice Spirit related changes DS will continue to be fairly close to be spammable. think of Nirvana DS style :)? dashing infinitely through mobs for Nirvana's 5seconds - it would look like seven sided strike and could be REALLY wicked!

I'm with everyone else here and think they are nerfing the aps on FOT there's NO WAY they'd buff it further with more spirit per hit and more damage per hit w/o bringing it more in line with other gens. That being said now it will be much more feasible to HAVE to choose which gen you like more which is what monks have been asking for!

Truly excited about all the changes proposed thus far!
Reply Quote
Druin: congrats on obtaining the green letters.

I'm really excited about the new monk changes, am exciting to try the new passives and a buff to 2h tempest rush/ dashing strike is amazing.

Thanks for sharing the news!
Reply Quote
Wow thanks for the insight! Now I'm more excited to play the expansion :D
Reply Quote
MVP - Diablo III (Monk)
View profile
The resource on kill change, though is AMAZING. In practice I do not know how well it work. But I will say, Witch Doctor's have a skill similar (Grave Injustice) and the 4 piece bonus from the Zuni set does the same thing. Both are almost universally used because they are just really really really really good. Nice to see it getting passed around.

Yup, I am really excited about it.

There are no two ways about this ... Reclamation is my most anticipated change so far! :D

———————————————————————————————————————

09/16/2013 01:52 PMPosted by Vox
Druin--Fantastic review, thanks for taking the time to put this together!

<3

09/16/2013 01:52 PMPosted by Vox
Given all the survivability buffs (many of them party oriented), I think new content is gonna hit really, really hard.

While this is possible, I think it is actually more likely that they will just nerf Lifesteal.

The problem with all these changes to healing is that they are pretty terrible compared to LS.
LS scales with your DPS so the new "harder" content will bring with it new "better" items which have more DPS and thus more LS.

The result is that LS trivializes most content.

If they nerf LS, all these alternative methods of healing start to look more attractive.

This is just a hunch though ... time will tell! :D

One comment regarding Mystic Rhythm--If you DON'T use a dmg dealing spirit spender, it nearly doubles spirit gen for DW. This could have applications for combo strike builds that utilize LPSS and run double mantras with good spam effects (MOH, MOC?).

This is very possible.

Ideas like this indicate that Mythic Rhythm is a very well designed ability.
I love it when you can use a single skill to facilitate different methods of play ... diversity yay!

I could see +Globes gear and MoH - CB or MoH - ToN + Mythic Rhythm + Transcendence and mantra spam for bubble for invincibility mode!

———————————————————————————————————————

09/16/2013 01:54 PMPosted by RayvinAzn
Unless they're trying to make FoT even MORE mandatory for builds outside Nirvana, it's almost certain that FoT is going to have its hidden IAS modifier reduced. Between the spirit generation buff, the damage buff, and the new wording in the skill, it seems very likely that Blizzard is going to be slowing the skill down (at least in this build of the game, nothing's final).

Alright. I completely missed this as an option and the more I think about it, the more I think you must be correct.

It fits with all the signs that simply didn't make sense otherwise!

Some quick and rough math has FoT at something more like 1.15 APS to give it the same spir/sec and DPS as it was before.

Basically, 110% damage and 6 spir/hit at 1.52 APS is the same as 145% damage and 8 spir/hit at ~1.15 APS.

Against a single target, FoT - Thunderclap currently produces ~1.9 proc C per second.
With this change, it will now produce 1.44 proc C per second.
That is about a 25% reduction in SW - Cyclone damage from procced Cyclones.

This puts it closer to in line with DR and a bit ahead of all normal runes.

For AoE, this new FoT - Thunderclap would still out Proc C every other gen but only by a little.

Similarly, WotHF going from 8 to 7 spir/hit would indicate a change from 1.14 to ~1.30

This would put it at 0.81 Proc C per second against 1 monster and 3.27 Proc C per second against 4.
Hands of Lighitng would actually produce REALLY close numbers to Thunderclap with 0.933 Proc C per second at 1 monster vs 1.44 for TC and 3.73 Proc C per second against 4 mobs vs 4.03 for TC.

However, Thunderclap still takes the cake for Cyclone generation.

In the damage department, this would slightly increase TC's damage against 1 and 2 monsters and decrease it against 3+ monsters.

WotHF would still do MUCH worse damage against single targets (250% wep dmg per second from TC vs 154% wep dmg per second from WotHF) however at 3 targets they are equal and at 4+ WotHF would win out.

This is EXTREMELY well designed!! Bravo Blizz. Bravo.

Note: my numbers are guesses so please take them accordingly.

09/16/2013 01:54 PMPosted by RayvinAzn
Overall a great write-up though, I agree with most of it, especially the new rune for MoC. Spirit after Kill could solve a LOT of resource issues for the Monk. I think I discussed it with you (or maybe Vrkhyz) briefly, though my idea was more for an affix on gear that granted either a flat amount of spirit on kill, or bonus regen for a short period of time. Either way, that's almost certainly going to be the new rune I use for MoC.

Thanks and I agree! :D

———————————————————————————————————————

09/16/2013 02:05 PMPosted by TianZi
EP (Strong Spirit) builds are centered around killing the mobs with EP on them. Generally tag mob, loop around to collect more mobs, and kill it off within the time frame. That meant either DS or TR back to targeted mob followed by Bells. The new version of DS would simply allow clicking back on the mob for a near guaranteed kill. Tie this in with the possibility of 300 spirit from paragon levels, and EP in most cases will give even more spirit than it already does on live. Reclamation can even be added in (if spirit is even an issue at all). Currently on live a DS+Bells costs the same as the new DS by itself, while being a better controlled ability.

I understand. This is why I love having your style of thinking around! I would never have thought to use it this way. I am not sure how viable it will be to target the one mob with EP on it among a group ... but if it is than this will work perfectly.

Perhaps actually clicking on the monster you want will ensure the DoT lands on that one? Who knows!

09/16/2013 02:05 PMPosted by TianZi
I disagree on DS being the only movement, because of its cost, and TR is also easier to control, especially for shorter distances. I mean even now on live with the low cost, I still prioritize TR for movement over DS. With the new ground targeting system, DS -> TR should be more smooth due to the lack of attack at the end of DS. Based on the description you never "attack" with DS, but rather the enemies simply take damage. This should also help reduce rubberbanding with DS+TR builds.

Yea, I re-thought about it and I completely agree here.

This should make them more viable together not less. Especially if DS is also your main damage dealer.

09/16/2013 02:05 PMPosted by TianZi
DS is shaping up like a "do everything" ability, and it actually does them all well. That should never happen. High single target damage, decent AoE damage, high mobility, distance closing, and how can you even die when you can just DS away from any remotly dangerous mobs?

I am pretty skeptical that it does any of them well actually.

I think it is a "jack of all trades, master of none" skill that will see a lot of use for players like you (and me) who like abusing tool-box type things and a lot less use from players who want whatever the most powerful of a thing is.

Example --
The currently proposed ds is:
Worse than TR for movement -- 50spirit for 50 yards is terrible conversion of spirit to movement.

Worse than seren or especially Inner Sanc - Intervene for surviaval -- can't compare 50 spirit to 0 spirit really. Having to have 50 spirit to live gets me killed all the time right now with Bells and they only cost 40! :P

Worse than WoL for AoE damage -- duh.

Worse single target damage than LTK - SFK with enough -LTK gear -- this is actually a stretch. Paying 50 spirit for 1872% weapon damage is phenomenal conversion at 37.44 damage per spirit.
At -15 LTK cost (3x items) LTK - SFK is only 39.2 damage per spirit.

Anyways, I think it will be less good than you are anticipating but it may fulfill enough rolls at once to be playable.
________________________________________________
"Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing at all" ~ HK
Druin, the happy monk
Reply Quote
MVP - Diablo III (Monk)
View profile
09/16/2013 03:40 PMPosted by Davlok
I agree with RavynAzn, you should really take the aps nerf as intended. There is no other reasonable conclusion to reach after seeing the spirit per hit AND damage % increased. Then your analysis for the other generators will be less biased, and a discussion on spirit gen balance can be had, since right now your analysis is still FoT cookie for most situations.

Yea, I can't see a way this isn't the case anymore. Check out the math I did in my reply to Azn and see how you feel about it.

———————————————————————————————————————

Thanks Druin!
Your thread are always very well thought out and written.
I’ll have to come back a bit everyday to read this =)

Thanks QH!! :D

———————————————————————————————————————

09/16/2013 03:59 PMPosted by Narcolepsy
And this is probably what I'll be running since it's my go-to spec right now. Druin, question. Since you don't get the double proc with FoT-Q to benifit SW-Cyclone, would a change in SW rune be a smart idea? Maybe firestorm fore a steady stream of health return or the spirit regen one for even more bells?

Hey Narc,

I am not able to test this because I don't have the gear nor the inclination to play cookie-bells the way a dual 1h person would, but as a dual 1h user, DKX told me he gets higher DPS via Cyclone despite not having Thunderclap to back it up.

If you are using a 2h wep you get to use Guardian Path (the best passive ever) which makes Inner-Storm more DPS (this I have tested) than cyclone in the cookie-bells build.

My ghom kill speed is consistently higher with Inner Storm and my Doomhammer than with Cyclone.

<3

———————————————————————————————————————

From a HC perspective, yes MoH Sustenance is nice, we mainly use that mantra/rune since we run with GL and the 20% DPS increase is hard to ignore.

Some of us will use CS-SB and MoC Overawe, makes pretty much anything pretty simple depending on the group.

Nice write-up Druin, but it is high time you played HC. You will probably have a better understanding of the skills for HC.

Yea, I tried to be as HC mindful as possible with my review but I honestly don't know much about it.

Thanks for the thumbs up though! I imagine a lot of these survival things will be nice for you ... especially the trinket that revives you.

I will probably never play HC buddy! Sorry! Too risk averse. :D

———————————————————————————————————————

09/16/2013 11:07 PMPosted by Daliwoo
awesome info Druin, i can't believe i'm getting excited about Inner Sanctuary

YISSSSSSSSSSSS! Get ready for Inner Sanc to make a huge comeback! :D

———————————————————————————————————————

09/17/2013 03:00 AMPosted by Bodhi
Very informative and enjoyable video, I just have to wonder since when is Frodo Baggins playing D3?

That feeling in your heart, it's called jealousy and it's totally normal for people to feel when they view my hair for the first time! ;)

<3

———————————————————————————————————————

09/17/2013 10:03 AMPosted by Brenneman10
You said on CW-Tsunami that it was fairly useless because they had removed the movement part of it or something along that line? but the movement reductions is a flat 60% for all runes now - just like teleport on FoT. Tsunami itself now increases the 11yards to 17yards on the 3rd strike. That while not game-breaking is still useable for sure and not total junk as the video seemed to imply!

Ah, sorry if I was unclear ... that was a 1 take hour long video so I have no idea what I said! :D

All I meant to say was that Tsunami used to give the "advantage" of a 60% slow as well as the increased radius and it was STILL useless. Now it doesn't even give 60% ...you already had that benefit.

This means it's even LESS attractive compared to its competitors like Rising Tide (the best by far!)

09/17/2013 10:03 AMPosted by Brenneman10
when it comes to DS - I really think they are going to make this the signature spell for monks. I remember when we were pitched Monk during and before Beta that he/she would be HIGHLY mobile in combat and crazy fast paced melee action in combat.

I think this is a pretty high likelihood as well.

I am not sure if it will be quite as signature as Overawe/Mantras but we shall see.

09/17/2013 10:03 AMPosted by Brenneman10
I'm with everyone else here and think they are nerfing the aps on FOT there's NO WAY they'd buff it further with more spirit per hit and more damage per hit w/o bringing it more in line with other gens. That being said now it will be much more feasible to HAVE to choose which gen you like more which is what monks have been asking for!

Yea, I can't deny, this line of thought makes by far the most sense.

Check out my math in my response to Azn and tell me what you think!

———————————————————————————————————————

Druin: congrats on obtaining the green letters.

I'm really excited about the new monk changes, am exciting to try the new passives and a buff to 2h tempest rush/ dashing strike is amazing.

Thanks for sharing the news!

Thanks Draco! :D

I am really excited about them as well ... I think this game is moving so far and so fast in the right direction it is making my head spin!

———————————————————————————————————————

09/17/2013 10:56 AMPosted by stevedusa
Wow thanks for the insight! Now I'm more excited to play the expansion :D

I could not possibly hope for a better reaction to my post than this! :D

<3
________________________________________________
"Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing at all" ~ HK
Druin, the happy monk
Reply Quote
09/16/2013 12:45 PMPosted by Druin
Reclamation : When an enemy affected by Mantra of Conviction is killed, your allies nearby gain 1% of maximum Life and 1% of maximum resources.


Does this include the monk itself? The wording seems like it would be more support for other party members. If I am interpreting wrong then the wording should be changed to "you and your allies".
Reply Quote
MVP - Diablo III (Monk)
View profile
Does this include the monk itself? The wording seems like it would be more support for other party members. If I am interpreting wrong then the wording should be changed to "you and your allies".

Yea, you have a really good point.

I can hope and pray I suppose. This would be terrible news though.
________________________________________________
"Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing at all" ~ HK
Druin, the happy monk
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]